what forms of golf etiquette do you ignore and why?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

As mentioned above, even the pros do it, and they are generally sticklers for etiquette.  I don't walk, but I often drive ahead, making sure that I'm off to one side, but I have gone as much as 60 or 70 yards ahead of someone who is getting ready to play.

that's even worse.......people who drive carts going ahead.......a bigger obstacle to negotiate......I think that deserves another thread, etiquette in using a cart.

Trust me, I know cart etiquette, probably better than most people do, and certainly as well as you do.  You carry your sensitivity to distractions to a ridiculous extreme.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007

Pretty much what @Fourputt said.

Why are you assuming that you're in the fairway? Or that I'm in the fairway? Or that the hole doesn't angle away from the playing partner who has so egregiously walked ahead of you?

for the majority of the time, that is the typical scenario, both players on the fairway and the bomber walking ahead, if you care to read carefully, then I am understanding of perhaps the bomber  discretely walking ahead well off the fairway to look for their ball in the trees.

If I'm off the fairway/in trouble its even more reason the person shouldn't be walking ahead, they wont have any idea how my ball is lying, what is in the way, whether Im going to have to chip out sideways, go left or right of an obstacle.......whatever.  Its tough enough establishing the line to hit on, then having to check where the clown is that is walking ahead.....gimme a break.

I guess that most of the people you play with are short on common sense.  Like I said above, if you use your head, you know when it's appropriate to move ahead of someone and when it's not.  I've played with a companion who is as touchy as you are, and it's no fun having to feel that every move you make is being analyzed and criticized.  Loosen up and trust that your fellow competitors have at least a modicum of common sense.  Save the lecture for the one guy in 10 or more who is oblivious to what's going on around him.

How about you just don't worry about hitting the clown? He assumes a risk by walking ahead. Trust me, in this scenario I'm always looking back. If you hit him, at least you can say he deserved it for walking ahead of you.

And whom do you play with where "the majority of the time both players are in the fairway"?

I was wondering about this too.  Most of the time we're lucky if two out of four are in the fairway.

[sac1]

How about you just don't worry about hitting the clown? He assumes a risk by walking ahead.

the rules say not to hit in the direction of another player and if one feels that they at risk of hitting another, one shouldn't hit, regardless of whether that person chooses to put themselves in your path.

as I mentioned previously,(why not read my previous posts), I have no wish to be attending a coroner's inquest explaining why I  hit when there was someone within my range of probable shot paths.

[MrDC]

Everyone moves ahead to the first ball on the fairway, those off the fairway can disperse to find their balls, even if they're ahead, those on the fairway play on with etiquette, those off soon join the fun most likely on or near the green.

Basically the only time it's OK to move ahead is if you're off the fairway and looking for an errant shot.

[sac1]

Everyone moves ahead to the first ball on the fairway, those off the fairway can disperse to find their balls, even if they're ahead, those on the fairway play on with etiquette, those off soon join the fun most likely on or near the green.

Basically the only time it's OK to move ahead is if you're off the fairway and looking for an errant shot.

+1

[RFKFREAK]

If my ball is farther ahead of my competitors but in the general vicinity, then I'll just walk with my competitor to their ball and wait for them to hit.

Otherwise, I'm just going to walk to my ball and look back as I walk to see where people are and stop if I see someone ready to hit or when I get to my ball and wait for them to hit.

[iacas]

I have played golf with a lot of people and I will almost always go ahead to my ball. The only times I won't are when I will be within 10° or so of their line. in other words, somewhere within their field of vision and by that I mean the focused field of vision not the literal field of vision. If you are playing with a right-handed golfer you can actually get closer on the left than on the right since shanks go to the right. If my ball is in their field of vision I'll often walk to the side parallel up to my ball (to the side still) get a yardage, draw a club, and be ready to walk to my ball and hit as soon as they hit.

[turtleback]

its etiquette not to walk ahead of people for a reason,:

you are most likely going to be walking ahead of the people that are  behind you whilst they are hitting hence causing a distraction because:

1. you are moving

2. the players hitting have to concern themselves where you will have moved to by the time they take address and hit the ball

3. with your back to them you are visibly showing a DISINTEREST in what they are doing/observing where their ball goes, maintaining the integrity of the game /fairness to the field when you sign their card(yes you are meant to watch them hit the majority of shots)

4. obvious safety reasons...at my club I've heard of about 10 people getting very badly hurt/hit......and the ball was from "friendly fire", playing partners, not strays from adjoining fairways.

you are putting extra pressure on the players behind you to:

1. play faster, because they are made to feel they are behind all the time....you've hit it pass them, be happy with that, you don't have to announce it to the world and go position yourself where your ball finished up

2. have to not miss hit their next shot to avoid you standing down the fairway, not of all us are pro standard and can hit it down the line of the gallery.

3. people that walk ahead seem only to be working in straight lines, the people behind you may be thinking of shaping their shot left or right, especially if they are positioned on one side of the fairway.  There is nothing worse than having to yell at the clown 80 yards down to move out of the way because you are intending to perhaps hit a fade and need to start it near where they are standing........there is always the risk of a double cross or straight ball taking them out.......

Ive really explained this all in previous posts, but if there are people here that believe that there need to walk ahead overrides all these reasons for the etiquette, then hope we never shall meet.

As to your numbered points, no it is not a violation of etiquette to walk ahead - nowhere in the etiquette section of the ROGdoes it say you should not walk ahead of people.  You are (incorrectly, IMO) inferring it from other things, but it is not really there.

1)  No, most people will keep an eye on things and when a player is ready to hit will pause.

2)  No, that is their concern at that point.

3.  No, as I already pointed out, people will keep an eye on things and pause, so they are watching and won't hurt your feelings by seeing disinterested in what you do.

4)  the people in your club must be maniacs or idiots.  I cannot imagine 10 people getting hit and seriously hurt in even 40 years at one club.  I've been playing for 35 years and while I know these things occur I have never personally witnessed anyone getting injured on the golf course by getting hit with a ball, let alone badly hurt.  But frequently enough that t happens 10 times at one club?!?!?!?  So either your clubmates are  idiots, they just like pulling your leg or you are making this up.

But I completely agree with your last sentence.  I would not enjoy playing with someone who made me feel like I have to walk on eggshells to avoid disturbing their hypersensitive nature.

PS:  I do not understand all the references to 100 yards ahead.  I am a pretty short hitter and rarely if ever, unless I completely duffed it, are even the long hitters more than about 50 yards ahead of me.  The reality is that usually the player ahead is more like 20-40 yards ahead, where even a relatively small angle is more than enough for safety so long as you use your head a little.  But the prime directive of "Be safe" does not mean throw common sense out the window so you can be hyper-safe and guard against illusory risks.

[Pretzel]

To be completely honest, I am absolutely disinterested in what my playing partners are doing unless we're gambling. Even if that's the case, I still only am interested enough to count how many time I hear the club make contact with their ball and focus on my own game instead of watching theirs.

you are putting extra pressure on the players behind you to:

1. play faster, because they are made to feel they are behind all the time....you've hit it pass them, be happy with that, you don't have to announce it to the world and go position yourself where your ball finished up

Is there any problem with a little extra motivation for people to play faster? If you haven't noticed, the pace of play at most courses is between sedate and glacial. I wouldn't mind it picking up to merely slow, and I'm fairly certain that (with the extreme lack of practice, coordination, and focus/sobriety that most of the slow players display) it won't add more than one or two strokes to their scores.

[mcanadiens]

I think you guys are over thinking this. If you can safely move to your ball, you do. If you can't, you cool your heals till you can.

My guys and I aren't very good, so nobody is going anywhere until the tee shots are hit. After that, we go and only stop if the other guy is reasonably square behind us.

[dkolo]

If I'm lucky enough to have my ball ahead of another player's, I'll go ahead of people when it makes sense time- and safety-wise, and I'll stay even with or behind them when it doesn't. [/obvious] .

As for the cell phone thing, I don't know if it's a generational schism, but I really couldn't care less if people are on their phones on the golf course. Especially when it's for texting / emailing / internet use. Half of my golf is played on Sunday afternoons when games are going on. Let people check their scores or take pictures for facebook or who-cares-what. If they're not feeling chatty, that's up to them. And honestly, it's not really an either-or dichotomy we're setting up here. People are for the most part fine at using their phone for a minute or two here or there to do what they need to and still be able to attend to conversation. Especially when we have to wait 5+ minutes on every tee and approach, I have zero problems with it.

I've rarely seen folks actually talking on the phone, but when they do, it's usually on a tee while there's a wait, and if they have to take a call during a hole, I've always seen them either pick up for that hole or keep it short enough that they don't hold anyone up. People have lives, I don't have a problem with them taking care of things while they're playing when it doesn't affect other folks.

[sac1]

As to your numbered points, no it is not a violation of etiquette to walk ahead - nowhere in the etiquette section of the ROGdoes it say you should not walk ahead of people.  You are (incorrectly, IMO) inferring it from other things, but it is not really there.

Here are some relevant statements from the RoG,:

1.Players should always show consideration for other players on the course and should not disturb their play by moving, talking or making unnecessary noise.

2.Players should ensure that no one is standing close by or in a position to be hit by the club, the ball or any stones, pebbles, twigs or the like when they make a stroke or practice swing.

3.The “line of play’’ is the direction that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke, plus a reasonable distance on either side of the intended direction. The line of play extends vertically upwards from the ground, but does not extend beyond the hole.

A person who continues to walk past me whilst I am addressing/ hitting to get to their ball is in violation of no.1, they are both a visual and audible distratction.

If another player positions themselves so that the person hitting feels like they may have the possibility of hitting them, they are making it impossible for the player hitting to follow the rules as outlined in no.2 ......and it is the decision of the person hitting whether it is safe, they are the one hitting the ball, not you.

No.3 outlines a reasonable distance, whilst that statement is somewhat subjective, ultimately it is  up to the person hitting to decide(they have the best knowledge of how much they can miss by), if you decide for them what is a reasonable distance then you are in breach of no.3.....not showing consideration for other players.  Allow the person hitting to swing freely and not have to put thoughts into the swing equation about guarding against missing it in your direction.

3.  No, as I already pointed out, people will keep an eye on things and pause, so they are watching and won't hurt your feelings by seeing disinterested in what you do.

hurt my feelings......no, it just disturbs me that these people have not thought about how the game of golf is played.......the way you and some others are thinking..........why even bother for them to hit at all, just keep going, putt out and get on with the next hole......golf is played in groups and you play with that group.

I am not alone in observing this:

Probably the thing that bugs me the most is when someone has a ball ahead of mine and goes to their ball acting as if I don't exist and I can't even hit my shot because they are in the way.

[Pretzel]

You must have eyes in the back of your head and the hearing of a bat to find me distracting when I'm behind you and a good 10-20 yards away walking past, stopping once you address the ball for good measure. You don't need complete stillness and silence when you're measuring the yardage and selecting a club, so you bet I'm going to keep walking quietly. I will stop once you address the ball, again quietly, and resume my motion once you have made contact. Unless your field of vision exceeds 180* or you can see through the brim of your hat, I guarantee you will not see me as a visual distraction during your shot.

Considering the fact that I'm going to be located such that hitting me would be beneficial to you and not harmful in the slightest to me, this is a non-issue. If I'm at a 45* angle from the line of play I can guarantee that no ball you hit at me unintentionally will harm me or come so fast that I can't merely take one step to the side to avoid it. As an aside, if you really were to follow this rule strictly you would be waiting for people to pass on the fairway to your left before hitting because you "have the possibility of hitting them". Don't be that guy.

If I play with someone for two to three holes I can tell how far a reasonable distance will be. If the person is quite obstinate about it, as you appear to be, I will ask them what they deem to be reasonable and follow their guideline.

hurt my feelings......no, it just disturbs me that these people have not thought about how the game of golf is played.......the way you and some others are thinking..........why even bother for them to hit at all, just keep going, putt out and get on with the next hole......golf is played in groups and you play with that group.

Grow some thicker skin and get over it, golf is not played the same way everywhere by everyone. Golf is (usually) an individual sport that is played in groups. You play your own game with a group of others who each play a game of their own. I play golf such that I can be done in time to do eat lunch and do something else during the rest of the day (perhaps even playing another 18), whereas you appear to subscribe to the theory that you should all congregate behind someone to watch their shot as if it were to win the U.S. Open. Neither is wrong by itself, but telling someone that they cannot play their way within the rules IS wrong. You play the game as you like with people who play the way you enjoy, and I'll play with those that I enjoy playing with because they don't get upset over a near-inaudible sound that may or may not occur during their swing. I would not enjoy playing with you based solely on what I have seen you post on this subject simply because playing with you would be a six hour round.

I apologize if that came across harsh, but it's the honest truth as I see it. I have played in over 50 tournaments over the last five years and have never once had a complaint about walking past the imaginary line that is perpendicular to their line of play towards my ball. You will encounter greater distractions than the sound of a footstep 15 yards away on every shot, weather it be a car on an adjacent street or a player on a different hole saying something to another player in their group. Walking ahead of you, but outside of your reasonable line of play, will only affect you mentally. At that point it becomes an issue that you need to deal with, rather than making everyone else that you play with slow down their rounds to accommodate a minor pet peeve of yours.

[iacas]

A person who continues to walk past me whilst I am addressing/ hitting to get to their ball is in violation of no.1, they are both a visual and audible distratction.

If someone 40 yards away is a visual and audible distraction to you, you are far too easily distracted compared to most people.

If another player positions themselves so that the person hitting feels like they may have the possibility of hitting them, they are making it impossible for the player hitting to follow the rules as outlined in no.2 ......and it is the decision of the person hitting whether it is safe, they are the one hitting the ball, not you.

Again, I feel like you are taking this to extremes. A player should have no reasonable expectation of being hit. That means I vary the width of the "safety zone" depending on who is playing.

hurt my feelings......no, it just disturbs me that these people have not thought about how the game of golf is played.......the way you and some others are thinking..........why even bother for them to hit at all, just keep going, putt out and get on with the next hole......golf is played in groups and you play with that group.

You seem to disregard the fact that on the PGA Tour, players will routinely be yards ahead of their playing partners.

I am not alone in observing this:

That quote says "someone is in my way." Nobody here is talking about being "in the way."

---

Here's an example.

On the left, a 180-yard shot. On the right, I'll stand anywhere outside of the green lines for good players, and anywhere outside the red area for poorer players. If my ball is at the white dot, I'll wait by the blue dot until it is my turn to play.

Nobody's ever had a problem with it, and your position is entirely unique in the game. I've seen golfers go ahead ALL the time, at every level of the game: PGA Tour, weekend duffer, etc.

A golfer should not be looking way to the side, nor should the golfer who is ahead be making noise or waving his arms or doing anything. He should be still and observing the player in case he shanks it or something… but to pretend that he must stay well behind this position is, really, quite absurd IMO. I've never seen it done.

P.S. I realize the lines show that I might stand two yards away from the person hitting. That's not really what they should indicate. In reality there would be an obvious bubble around the player. It's just not drawn here as I was mostly emphasizing the angles.

[sac1]

you are not playing within the rules when a player asks you not to stand where they find your position or actions  distracting,  possibly I wouldn't find where you position yourself with the blue dot a distraction, but it seems within shank range to me, why should I have the thought of "guard against the shank or I could kill someone"?

No-one has any reason to complain if you stand still, don't stand to close and keep quiet........it is not that hard, my regular four understand and respect it and we do the course in 3 1/4 hours without carts.

The other aspect why is there a need to walk ahead if you aren't looking for your ball?, it actually slows the game down.  The people behind you need either to wait until you walk up to your ball to know where you are positioned or do you expect them to hit whilst you are actively moving past them?

Ive already made comment on what happens on the pga tour......go back and read it.

[sac1]

apologies above, Ive got what pretzel and icacus said mixed, Id fix it but was blocked from editing.

Ill make this my last post in this thread, obviously those that walk ahead of others here for no real good reason other than that's what they have always done, are not going to see it from the perspective of those that are not confident in their shot making.

[iacas]

The other aspect why is there a need to walk ahead if you aren't looking for your ball?, it actually slows the game down.

Quite the opposite is true in my experience and that's one of the biggest reasons why I and others I know do it.

The people behind you need either to wait until you walk up to your ball to know where you are positioned or do you expect them to hit whilst you are actively moving past them?

Please read what people have written. The person walking past stops when the player behind is readying himself to hit. Nobody's moving about or forcing anyone to wait. While he's getting a yardage, pulling a club, etc. they're fine to walk. Most of the time people can walk to their balls (or their positions off to the sides near their balls) while the group in front is still putting or something.

On the contrary, your system forces everyone to wait at the farthest ball from the hole, except in poorly defined situations like searching for a ball that may be far enough out of your shank-zone that you feel comfortable? I think?

apologies above, Ive got what pretzel and icacus said mixed, Id fix it but was blocked from editing.

You weren't "blocked" from editing by anyone. The site simply limits edits to a 9-minute window.

Ill make this my last post in this thread, obviously those that walk ahead of others here for no real good reason other than that's what they have always done, are not going to see it from the perspective of those that are not confident in their shot making.

Here's the thing… it sounds awfully close-minded, particularly when you say things like "for no real good reason." Several reasons have been given. I've played with plenty of people who are lousy golfers, and none have ever had a problem walking ahead.

You seem to be overly sensitive to the issue. I could easily be wrong, but I would imagine you have some trouble finding people with whom to play since many would find being held back or given the stink-eye when they go ahead to their ball WELL out of the way to be irritating.

---

@sac1 , lots of other threads here. If you want to shoot lower scores and be more confident in your shotmaking and the direction of your misses, hit up the Swing Thoughts section of the site in particular.

[turtleback]

apologies above, Ive got what pretzel and icacus said mixed, Id fix it but was blocked from editing.

Ill make this my last post in this thread, obviously those that walk ahead of others here for no real good reason other than that's what they have always done, are not going to see it from the perspective of those that are not confident in their shot making.

At least you are keeping an open mind.

BTW, you need to start using multiquote rather than leaving a series of consecutive messages.

Here is a link about posting etiquette, which around here is almost as important as etiquette on the golf course, as well as instructions on how to multi-quote,

http://thesandtrap.com/t/69379/new-to-the-sand-trap-little-things-members-expect-and-ask-of-fellow-members

[tqcishark]

the majority of golfers here seem to agree that many situations allow a golfer to advance to their next shot in a reasonable manner.  My regular group mishits enough that I try to stay about 30degrees off the away golfers line, but in all situations I make sure to pay attention and stop moving or making noise at address.  It seems like sac1 is mostly talking about cases where there is not much seperation from eachother's line and both balls are in the fairway.  In these situations I do tend to wait for the first hitter before advancing to my next shot.  If the away golfer is not facing me at address, I feel completely comfortable moving forward of his position, as long as I do not encroach into his peripheral vision, and I am silent at address.  If he is facing me at address, I simply give him some room and let him hit before advancing past his position.

When I write all these words it may seem like overthinking.  Most of what I just wrote I causes almost zero loss of mental energy on the course.  These are some very simple rules of engagement that seem more like common sense than rules.

Cell phones on the course is a slightly different deal.  Putting my phone on vibrate sometimes just isn't enough when I'm on call for stuff, be it work or family.  My regular group understands because we all have stuff and phone ringers don't bother any of us.  When I'm with new playing partners, I always handle it differently.  I will put my phone on vibrate and manage my phone etiquette by the book, but frankly picky golfers still have problem with taking calls and maintaining a phone conversation during play.  I get it.  I've been out there with golfers who were totally checked out on their phone, and it can get tedious.  For me it is equally tedious when golfers measure every shot with laser or GPS, thus adding notable amounts of time to a round.  I know this criticism is bound to generate some comments here, and I look forward to understanding how acquiring exact distances merits the extra time, unless there's something significant on the line.  I really understand the using range finders when your way off the fairway.  When you're on the fairway and can see where your ball is relative to a distance marker, no decent golfer needs to hold up play for an exact measurement.  If we all held up play to measure every shot, the round would take forever and even the slowest foursomes would pile up behind you.  I have never seen a range finder actively employed that did not hold up play.  Pace of play is my number one concern.