Stop Aiming at the Flag!!! #DeadCenter

[saevel25]

On top of that, a numbnuts who apparently doesn't know the difference between Phil Collins and Huey Lewis & The News??

Doesn't matter, they both suck.

[Harmonious]

Doesn't matter, they both suck.

Phil Collins maybe, but the News (with the Tower of Power horns backup, of course) was a tight band.

[iacas]

And… back to the topic, please. :)

[teamroper60]

All I can say is, I can't wait for my copy of this book to arrive!    I firmly believe this is going to have a drastic affect on my score..

[Golfingdad]

Phil Collins maybe, but the News (with the Tower of Power horns backup, of course) was a tight band.

Totally agree!!

And… back to the topic, please. :)

Fine.  Party pooper.

All I can say is, I can't wait for my copy of this book to arrive!    I firmly believe this is going to have a drastic affect on my score..

Yeah, same here.  I have already learned a lot from them, and I think I have a pretty good handle on their philosophy, but here's hoping, they've kept some nuggets to themselves to reveal in the book.

[MS256]

I assume this book is the sequel to "How To Hit The Middle Of The Green When You Aim At It". That's the one I need a copy of first. ;-)

[teamroper60]

Quote:

Originally Posted by teamroper60

All I can say is, I can't wait for my copy of this book to arrive!    I firmly believe this is going to have a drastic affect on my score..

I assume this book is the sequel to "How To Hit The Middle Of The Green When You Aim At It".

That's the one I need a copy of first.

That's probably a different book series...   I'm thinking that if a golfer can actually hit where they aim, they might not need LSW.......

[iacas]

I'm thinking that if a golfer can actually hit where they aim, they might not need LSW.......

You'd think that… but no. :) Still plenty of ways to waste time, and make poor strategic choices.

[gwlee7]

Ok so yesterday I am finally able top get out on the course.  You'd have thought that my little corner of NC was actually in Eire or something.  Anyway, fro giggles an grins, I decided to put the theory to a very informal test. I made bogey or an even bigger  mess of the holes where I "purposefully" tried to hit it at the flag and was one under on the ones where I purposefully hit to the center of the green.

[mdl]

I wanted to ask about this. I'm already sold on aiming at the middle of the green whenever possible. Suppose I hit my 8-iron 125 yards and the center of the green is 130 yards out for an average sized green. If the pin is in front, and all other things are equal (good lie, no wind, level, etc), should I be hitting an 8-iron, 7-iron, or something else (maybe grip down on the 7-iron)?

@mvmac already replied, but I just thought I'd note that it was pointed out earlier that in general this advice is related more to left/right aim, rather than front to back aim.  Of course there are specifics that would alter your front/back aim away from the level of the flag, but the general advice on a green without too much trickery is aim pin high to a flag in something like the middle third of the green front to back, a bit behind the flag when the flag is close to the front, and a bit in front of the flag when the flag is close to the back.

So if green center is 130 yards, the flag is at 120 yards and close to the front of the green, and your stock 8i goes 125, then that seems the perfect shot to choose.  Of course, you've got to consider your own game.  If you rarely really tag one 1/2+ club long but hit pretty frequent minor mishits that end up alright but go 1/2-1 club short (say, one of your frequent misses is a minor dig, or a flip that goes straight but high and short, or toe-job that goes short), then maybe 7i is the play so your well struck shots are on the green but long but most of your frequent minor misses still make it to the green.

The point is just to think about your personal scatter plot of approach shots.  For most golfers the scatter is much bigger left to right than it is front to back, especially if you disregard the big mishits that you can't really play for anyway.  Say, the big digs that go 50% of the way, or the bombed pull draws that hit level with just past the green but also way left.  In that vein, I'd only choose 7i if my scatter has a major secondary mode 1/2-1 club short.  Maybe if your main minor miss is a high fade that goes 8 yards short and flares towards the right 1/4 of the green but would stay on the green if it gets there.  Then for a short flag you probably want to aim center+ front to back and center-left left to right so a shot like you want goes mid-left of the green and your main miss goes front right of the green, neither epically far from the flag anywhere in the front of the green.

[iacas]

@mvmac already replied, but I just thought I'd note that it was pointed out earlier that in general this advice is related more to left/right aim, rather than front to back aim.  Of course there are specifics that would alter your front/back aim away from the level of the flag, but the general advice on a green without too much trickery is aim pin high to a flag in something like the middle third of the green front to back, a bit behind the flag when the flag is close to the front, and a bit in front of the flag when the flag is close to the back.

Right.

So basically the center of the green. :)

BTW, I'll share some stats with you from the study we did. I won't share too many, just two.

GIR, when aiming at the flag, for two groups of golfers from two distances (one each). And I'm rounding these numbers to the nearest 5% for this post.

0-9 handicappers, 70 yards: 65%

10-19 handicappers, 90 yards: 50%

The PGA Tour stats are already out there. 135 yards is only about 70%, right? And scrambling is worse too, for average players, so you really can't afford to miss the green.

But I'm done now. I don't want to give too much away… which is not to say that the book is heavy on the stats. We use the stats to make our case, then quickly tell you how to apply what you learned to make your scores lower.

So if green center is 130 yards, the flag is at 120 yards and close to the front of the green, and your stock 8i goes 125, then that seems the perfect shot to choose.  Of course, you've got to consider your own game.  If you rarely really tag one 1/2+ club long but hit pretty frequent minor mishits that end up alright but go 1/2-1 club short (say, one of your frequent misses is a minor dig, or a flip that goes straight but high and short, or toe-job that goes short), then maybe 7i is the play so your well struck shots are on the green but long but most of your frequent minor misses still make it to the green.

Yep. Basically, get your dispersion pattern to hit the green the most often.

The point is just to think about your personal scatter plot of approach shots.

Oops. That's what I get for responding before reading the full post. :)

For most golfers the scatter is much bigger left to right than it is front to back, especially if you disregard the big mishits that you can't really play for anyway.

They're actually closer to "round" than you'd think. At the PGA Tour level, yes, with wedges in particular, but even at the PGA Tour level with a 7-iron, the dispersion pattern gets kind of "round" with a slight bias towards long/left and short/right (for righties, which makes sense).

[saevel25]

Can't wait for my copy of the book .

[Jakester23]

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS

[dchoye]

This thread has made me rethink what I do when I'm striking the ball well and I think I use Jack Nicklaus stragety with the irons. I will align to the edge of the green and to deliberately fade or draw Then when I set up I use the flag/pin as a "reference " point so I don't overcook and over fade or over draw. I like fading my irons so I like the pin on the right side of the green. Though I find it easier to draw my shorter irons.

[Groundhog34]

You are 100% correct. A 10 handicapper has a 10% margin of error at 100 yards equals 30 feet. Aim at the center. Hope to 2 putt.

[RandallT]

Maybe this is OT, but should high handicappers also just stop trying to hit tee shots to position the ball in the best spot for the right angle to the green? It stands to reason that if we can't hit our mid-irons too accurately, than how in heck can we pipe a drive down the left side to improve the direction we approach the green. Perhaps we are better off anywhere in the fairway than missing the fairway?

[jclark]

Maybe this is OT, but should high handicappers also just stop trying to hit tee shots to position the ball in the best spot for the right angle to the green? It stands to reason that if we can't hit our mid-irons too accurately, than how in heck can we pipe a drive down the left side to improve the direction we approach the green. Perhaps we are better off anywhere in the fairway than missing the fairway?

I think this is a very good point. I would keep this in mind on narrow fairways but my course has some pretty wide open fairways and smaller greens thus a higher margin of error for the fairway miss versus the green.

[iacas]

Maybe this is OT, but should high handicappers also just stop trying to hit tee shots to position the ball in the best spot for the right angle to the green?

It stands to reason that if we can't hit our mid-irons too accurately, than how in heck can we pipe a drive down the left side to improve the direction we approach the green.

Perhaps we are better off anywhere in the fairway than missing the fairway?

It's off topic, but for most amateurs, worrying about the fairway is almost irrelevant.

There's more in the book, but for now, let's keep to the particular topic here.