Education in the U.S.

[saevel25]

Exactly. Point being, there are options. But you surely have to prepare if it is merit based. Merit being you score well or you pay. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, IMO. BTW, I am a UMass alumni.

The only problem being that due to the social situations many minorities have, and the schools they attend, they can not meet the same Merit based levels as those from more affluent areas of society. Basically Merit is inherently prejudicial against those from inner city and poorer sectors of society. Where I think much of the work needs to be done. If the only options for someone from inner city are get a sports scholarship or not go to college, that is not good.

[newtogolf]

Seems college has become an extension of H.S. and as such people now believe they should be entitled to go while everyone else foots the bill.

When I graduated H.S. (1983) college was a luxury my parents couldn't afford.   I considered joining the military to pay for it, but ended up taking out student loans for the first year instead and got a part-time job on campus.  I eventually was offered a full-time as a computer mainframe operator working midnight - 8:00, the benefit was free tuition.  I worked full-time and went to school full-time to pay for my education.

While many go to college to pursue a degree in a field that requires it, a fair amount also go to college for the party life and because it's 4 years where they can delay taking on the responsibilities of being an adult and working a full-time job.

I am pretty involved in our school system and there's a huge number of kids who weren't strong academically that are going to 4 years schools and aren't even declaring a major.  They are using the 4 years to figure out what they want to be when they grow up, instead of going to a much less expensive two year school and transferring when they figure it out.  I don't have an issue with that except when you factor back in the cost of a four year university and burden of student loans it doesn't seem like a good use of money.  Conversely as a tax payer, I don't want to pay even higher taxes to send kids to school so they can party for 4 years.

Kids that work their tails off in H.S. and get good grades or excel in sports are offered scholarships to minimize the financial burden.  My daughter received nearly full rides to two private universities just based on her academics and extra curricular activity (non-sports).   I taught her from 1st grade that college is a privilege and if she wants to go there she has to earn it.  She did and I'm very proud of her.

[jgreen85]

One problem with college and college debt is that a large portion of the cost of college is living expenses. I graduated from UT-Austin in 2008 and my basic living expenses were about 40-50% of the cost of attendance (tuition at UT has increased more rapidly than CoL since then). Fact is, I could've graduated in 3yrs rather than 5 had cost been a motivating factor (had full ride). Point being: college shouldn't take 4 yrs and/or peeps should work while in school. College is treated far too much as a time for partying and leisure. I'm all for making it more affordable, but I'd like to see huge incentives for finishing school faster.

[WUTiger]

... I am pretty involved in our school system and there's a huge number of kids who weren't strong academically that are going to 4 years schools and aren't even declaring a major.  They are using the 4 years to figure out what they want to be when they grow up, instead of going to a much less expensive two year school and transferring when they figure it out.  I don't have an issue with that except when you factor back in the cost of a four year university and burden of student loans it doesn't seem like a good use of money.  Conversely as a tax payer, I don't want to pay even higher taxes to send kids to school so they can party for 4 years. ...

I'm a business professor at a mid-sized Midwest private university where I teach primarily strategy and international management. I served in the military and spent a decade as a newspaper reporter before I returned to school and earned a PhD.

newtogolf, your remarks remind me of comments from a colleague who got his undergrad degree in England. If you want to attend an English university, you apply to the school's history department or physics department. If you want to change majors, you have to reapply to the new department. In the USA, we have too many students who show up to college "to try to find themselves."  After four years of HS and guidance counselors, you would think students would have more focus on where they wanted to go.

Then, there's the kids from bad economic situations. In north St. Louis County, several school districts are losing accreditation. One school district has 1,300 students who are homeless. It's hard for a kid to get traction academically when you're bouncing from shelter to shelter every couple of weeks.

From the University side, the fact is USA has excess capacity in higher education. We simply have more classrooms and dorm beds than the USA can fill, given the decline in high school graduates which started a couple of years ago. Expect this decline to last for many years, worsened by the dip in marriages and birth rates from the recent Recession.

Shutting down unneeded universities will be tough, much like trying to shut excess military bases. One example is Panhandle State University in Oklahoma, with enrollment of 1,200. In the late 1990s, state economists determined that Oklahoma would be better off to shut down Panhandle: if all potential in-state students got 4-year scholarship to a larger school, the state could save several million dollars a year. Regional legislators shot down the idea, because Panhandle was the only employer of any size in Texas County.

[dennyjones]

I work for a major automotive corporation.  I have two college degrees but choose to work in an unrelated field.   I started working and the company paid for my education.   The problem became that I had too much seniority to leave a great retirement.  My college degrees are going to waste.  I was given the opportunity to move to a mid-level manager position and declined because it was a dead end job.   I work with many people with college educations where their degree is completely unrelated to their job.   I work for a packaging engineer who has become an over paid secretary.    Our company doesn't usually hire people for a specific job based upon their degree, they just need the certificate of completion.

It's not uncommon in the US for people to not find work  in their related field.  My wife has been a Dental Hygienist for 32 year and decided to change careers.  She graduated with a 3.85 from Michigan and because the drive to a job that would pay what she made in the dental field is over 1 1/2 hours away, she is substitute teaching.

A college degree or two doesn't guarantee a good wage.  If we relocated, we both could get better jobs but that isn't feasible.   I live in Michigan and the economy is still in the hole.   You'll hear that the unemployment rate is back down to around 10% but that doesn't include the thousands of people that have given up and dropped out of the system.  Realistically, Michigan has about a 30% unemployment rate and quite a few of those have 4 year degrees.

[boogielicious]

I'm a business professor at a mid-sized Midwest private university where I teach primarily strategy and international management. I served in the military and spent a decade as a newspaper reporter before I returned to school and earned a PhD.

newtogolf, your remarks remind me of comments from a colleague who got his undergrad degree in England. If you want to attend an English university, you apply to the school's history department or physics department. If you want to change majors, you have to reapply to the new department. In the USA, we have too many students who show up to college "to try to find themselves."  After four years of HS and guidance counselors, you would think students would have more focus on where they wanted to go.

Then, there's the kids from bad economic situations. In north St. Louis County, several school districts are losing accreditation. One school district has 1,300 students who are homeless. It's hard for a kid to get traction academically when you're bouncing from shelter to shelter every couple of weeks.

From the University side, the fact is USA has excess capacity in higher education. We simply have more classrooms and dorm beds than the USA can fill, given the decline in high school graduates which started a couple of years ago. Expect this decline to last for many years, worsened by the dip in marriages and birth rates from the recent Recession.

Shutting down unneeded universities will be tough, much like trying to shut excess military bases. One example is Panhandle State University in Oklahoma, with enrollment of 1,200. In the late 1990s, state economists determined that Oklahoma would be better off to shut down Panhandle: if all potential in-state students got 4-year scholarship to a larger school, the state could save several million dollars a year. Regional legislators shot down the idea, because Panhandle was the only employer of any size in Texas County.

This must be a regional thing.  My son attends URI (Rhode Island) and it is the opposite.  He is in a forced triple.  Almost all of the schools he was accepted to had large waiting lists and similar issues.  Some of them were private too.  UMass Amherst, UNH, Quinnepiac, Bryant, Providence College, UConn all had the same waiting lists and full freshman classes.

[colin007]

interesting article.  the conflict of interest between the Common Core and the test writers (also a textbook company) is a little alarming.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/opinion/the-problem-with-the-common-core.html?hp&rref;=opinion&_r=0

[mdl]

interesting article.  the conflict of interest between the Common Core and the test writers (also a textbook company) is a little alarming.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/opinion/the-problem-with-the-common-core.html?hp&rref;=opinion&_r=0

Don't get me started on the Common Core.  I've heard/read mostly about the math stuff, as applied math is more or less my field.  It's an embarrassment.

[Golfingdad]

interesting article.  the conflict of interest between the Common Core and the test writers (also a textbook company) is a little alarming.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/opinion/the-problem-with-the-common-core.html?hp&rref;=opinion&_r=0

Don't get me started on the Common Core.  I've heard/read mostly about the math stuff, as applied math is more or less my field.  It's an embarrassment.

No, no ... please DO start!!  And when you do, please do it here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/73492/parents-of-grade-schoolers-thoughts-on-common-core/0_30

I know I said "parents of grade-schoolers" but I'd love to hear your thoughts too.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter.  Our kids are going to be going to public school, and so they're getting CC whether we like it or not, but I was just trying to learn more about it.