Relationship of flat left wrist vs. flipping to club path?

[Abu3baid]

This question has popped into my head a few times over the past couple of weeks, and I looked around trying to find an answer with none satisfying my query (if this has been discussed please merge if necessary).

I am not really sure what the answer is, but the situation is this and I'm trying to understand.

My friend flips the club no problem, and when we look at his swing it is obvious that he has a swing path that is in-out (he still has a two way miss where he will miss with an overdraw one day and a slice the other).  However, it is not just my friend I have seen other videos here of players that say they hit push draws and draws, but when I see their video they are flip city.

My self on the other hand I feel like I have a pretty flat wrist, however my big issue has always been (and is slightly changing with the irons, but not the Dr & 3W) swinging around my body and thus an out-in at contact or as I have heard coming across the ball causing the right curving shot (mostly push slices with the long clubs & fades with the irons).

Do people who flip just have an easier time swinging out because of all the time they give themselves and their body doesn't really move forward enough, while the others who might have a flat left wrist end up going around their body because their hips have no where to go since they have moved their weight way forward, and now the hips just pop open and bring the club with it?

Another issue is should this person who does flip start working on getting his hips forward and more of a flat left wrist at impact expect that his push draws will most likely turn to push slices and fades now?

Thanks

[mvmac]

Do people who flip just have an easier time swinging out because of all the time they give themselves and their body doesn't really move forward enough, while the others who might have a flat left wrist end up going around their body because their hips have no where to go since they have moved their weight way forward, and now the hips just pop open and bring the club with it?

Generally people who flip would have a harder time swinging out because when the club "overtakes" the hands, the path is rotated less right/more left.

Another issue is should this person who does flip start working on getting his hips forward and more of a flat left wrist at impact expect that his push draws will most likely turn to push slices and fades now?

Maybe. The issue is probably more of an arm sequencing problem or even the head going forward from A4-5....or both.

[mchepp]

Lots of discussion of flipping in this thread here.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/38588/flipping-at-impact-master-thread

[14ledo81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abu3baid

Do people who flip just have an easier time swinging out because of all the time they give themselves and their body doesn't really move forward enough, while the others who might have a flat left wrist end up going around their body because their hips have no where to go since they have moved their weight way forward, and now the hips just pop open and bring the club with it?

Generally people who flip would have a harder time swinging out because when the club "overtakes" the hands, the path is rotated less right/more left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abu3baid

Another issue is should this person who does flip start working on getting his hips forward and more of a flat left wrist at impact expect that his push draws will most likely turn to push slices and fades now?

Maybe. The issue is probably more of an arm sequencing problem or even the head going forward from A4-5....or both.

It took me a long time to understand this.  I am not sure why, maybe instinct was telling me differently.

@Abu3baid , take a club in your hand and mimic a slow downswing until the hands are getting close to impact.  Stop the hands and slowly flip the club.  You can see that as soon as the club head passes the hands, it will start to move left, unless your body alignments were extremely closed.

[billchao]

It took me a long time to understand this.  I am not sure why, maybe instinct was telling me differently. @Abu3baid , take a club in your hand and mimic a slow downswing until the hands are getting close to impact.  Stop the hands and slowly flip the club.  You can see that as soon as the club head passes the hands, it will start to move left, unless your body alignments were extremely closed.

Yup, good observations. Here's how I think of it, at least academically. The farthest the clubhead gets from your hands occurs when you have a flat left wrist. This is because you hold the bottom of the handle with your left hand. So if you swing the club with just your left hand, you'd swing down when your left wrist is bowed, hit the apex of the arc at a flat wrist condition, and swing up when your wrist starts to cup (flipping). And since we know the golf swing is on an inclined plane, swinging down is out, and up is in. Voila, flipping causes an inward (leftward) swing path.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

This question has popped into my head a few times over the past couple of weeks, and I looked around trying to find an answer with none satisfying my query (if this has been discussed please merge if necessary).

I am not really sure what the answer is, but the situation is this and I'm trying to understand.

My friend flips the club no problem, and when we look at his swing it is obvious that he has a swing path that is in-out (he still has a two way miss where he will miss with an overdraw one day and a slice the other).  However, it is not just my friend I have seen other videos here of players that say they hit push draws and draws, but when I see their video they are flip city.

My self on the other hand I feel like I have a pretty flat wrist, however my big issue has always been (and is slightly changing with the irons, but not the Dr & 3W) swinging around my body and thus an out-in at contact or as I have heard coming across the ball causing the right curving shot (mostly push slices with the long clubs & fades with the irons).

Do people who flip just have an easier time swinging out because of all the time they give themselves and their body doesn't really move forward enough, while the others who might have a flat left wrist end up going around their body because their hips have no where to go since they have moved their weight way forward, and now the hips just pop open and bring the club with it?

Another issue is should this person who does flip start working on getting his hips forward and more of a flat left wrist at impact expect that his push draws will most likely turn to push slices and fades now?

Thanks

I am no expert but to me it sounds like you are casting the club from the top. Especially if "around your body" means a shallow back swing and you are out to in coming through. Obviously I don't see your swing so just throwing something out there to check but I am pretty sure you can flip and get inside the ball if the swing path is pushing the club head to the right at the point of impact.

[HawkNballs]

I had a flippy swing last year and got my handicap down to 4.5.  It's the wrong way to golf, but I made it work with good timing.  If your timing is off... you're screwed!  You will hit the ball higher and lose a club in distance.  I was doing it to save rounds.  I would just take a weak grip and flip.

My flipping was from early extension.  I would stand up on my downswing and have to throw the club at the ball.  If my club face was open, I would push it.  If it was closed, I would hook.  I weakened my grip and hit it straight.  Spine angle is very important.  I used to try to force lag, but keeping your spine angle keeps lag.  You lose the lag when you early extend and throw the club at the ball.  This is from my experience anyway.  Everyone is different.

[Jeremie Boop]

Apparently having the ball too far back in your stance can also lead to flipping, which is what was pointed out as one of my issues along with an overswing. I'm curious if these are typical causes for a flip, overswing and ball placement too far back.

[HawkNballs]

Apparently having the ball too far back in your stance can also lead to flipping, which is what was pointed out as one of my issues along with an overswing. I'm curious if these are typical causes for a flip, overswing and ball placement too far back.

Interesting.  I've never heard that.  Getting the club stuck behind you causes it, I know.  You have to get out of the way of the club, so you stand straight up.

I know Jack Nicklaus always lined the ball up with his left ear on every club.  I feel like most irons are lined up with my left eye (I'm a northpaw)  and wedges in the middle with my nose.