Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
SoundandFury

Does a fade have to go shorter than a draw?

24 posts in this topic

Started working on hitting cuts when I need them, for both tee shots and pins that call for them, and to scrub a little distance off when I'm between clubs.  I've always heard that fades don't travel as far as draws, however I hit a cut 3w today that I swear traveled as far if not further than some of the draws I've hit on that particular hole.  That being said, I also hit a cut 9i that came up about 8 yards shorter than my stock draw usually does on the same par 3.

Any thoughts?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

All things being equal, they typically will. If a fairway slopes down hill left to right, a fade may roll more than the draw since the fade is going with the slope and the draw would be going against the slope. But there are no absolutes.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comparing a push draw to a pull fade, the pull fade should go farther because the club has less effective loft due to the clubface being closed.

Too many variables to say if one has a distance advantage over another.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Absolutely not. They result from exactly the same swing dynamics, simply mirror images of each other. The reason that most people believe otherwise is that the "fade" that they're generally exposed to is a weak slice caused by a much greater delta between club face and swing path than what they generally see from what are usually better players hitting stronger, slighter draws. The laws of ball flight don't care whether the ball is going right or left....
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

This makes sense to me. The fade I play now is waaaaay different than the one I (unintentionally) hit when I was a 25+. Ball starts 5 yards left of the target and drops to right. Exact opposite of a well hit draw. Last thing I want is the ball swooping 20 yds across the sky.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David is right.  Another thing that often contributes to the difference in distance (particular for myself) is that when I hook the ball, my club head is more closed than a straight shot, or a slight fade.  So I've delofted the club.  An example from the club I play most often:

Short Par 3, only 100 yards, Pin was in middle back both the last two rounds

Round 1--Hit SW, drew it and hooked it, ball flight was lower, spin was less, one bounce over back right of green

Round 2--Hit SW, blocked it just a touch, cut it a touch, ball was very high (club face too open, as opposed to too closed), ball landed front left off green.

Made par both times, though. :-)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My longest drives used to always be draws. Now my longest drives are from relatively straight (as far as the eye can judge it) to a very slight fade. I used to even get pretty decent distance when a draw crossed over into what I would call a hook. Seems like anymore when I hit one of those it's going nowhere. Almost a blessing in disguise though because often my hooks now don't go far enough to get in trouble (but that doesn't stop me from hating them just the same). ;-) My main nemisis since the first day I ever picked up a golf club was the hook. Never was a slicer.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This makes sense to me. The fade I play now is waaaaay different than[quote name="MS256" url="/t/76435/does-a-fade-have-to-go-shorter-than-a-draw#post_1037303"]My longest drives used to always be draws. Now my longest drives are from relatively straight (as far as the eye can judge it) to a very slight fade. I used to even get pretty decent distance when a draw crossed over into what I would call a hook. Seems like anymore when I hit one of those it's going nowhere. Almost a blessing in disguise though because often my hooks now don't go far enough to get in trouble (but that doesn't stop me from hating them just the same). ;-) My main nemisis since the first day I ever picked up a golf club was the hook. Never was a slicer.[/quote] Lucky man (and probably 1 in 100). I started off slicing. As I got better my miss became a hook, which no question gets me in more trouble than any slice ever did. However, I hated the slice so bad that to this day nothing pisses me off more than seeing a ball go right, even though it's always a block now, not a slice. Still ruins a round.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These answers are cracking me up.

Simply put, yes a fade is typically shorter than a draw.

However your phrase "have to" throws everything off and is soliciting the funky comments...nothing is absolute...

but think about this, are you asking for just carry distance?  or run out distance too?  If the conditions are soft, a high fade with driver may go long...

but on a firm and fast day a draw will run out much longer typically..

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However your phrase "have to" throws everything off and is soliciting the funky comments...nothing is absolute...

True.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A fade is a ball that curves to the right, a draw is a ball that curves to the left. Without more information, one can't say a whole lot. You can hit a low fade and a high draw. There is no general rule that applies.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Lucky man (and probably 1 in 100). I started off slicing. As I got better my miss became a hook, which no question gets me in more trouble than any slice ever did. However, I hated the slice so bad that to this day nothing pisses me off more than seeing a ball go right, even though it's always a block now, not a slice. Still ruins a round.

Hmmm. No I wouldn't say lucky. Cursed comes to mind first. ;-)

I hate hooks with a passion, and I still hit way too many of them.

You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen. :-D

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These answers are cracking me up.

Simply put, yes a fade is typically shorter than a draw.

However your phrase "have to" throws everything off and is soliciting the funky comments...nothing is absolute...

but think about this, are you asking for just carry distance?  or run out distance too?  If the conditions are soft, a high fade with driver may go long...

but on a firm and fast day a draw will run out much longer typically..

Unfortunately this is the type of answer that's common in these kinds of discussions.

Draws tend to go farther because people tend to hit them with less loft. But that's nowhere near a guarantee.

Consider the clubface to be a flat object with a given amount of loft. Does it really matter - does the ball even care - whether the clubface is moving 3° to the left or 3° to the right during impact if the clubhead speed, centeredness of strike, and loft are the same?

No. They'd go the exact same distance.

Another reason fades tend to go shorter: people are already pulling their elbows apart in swinging left. In swinging out to the right a bit, they extend their arms, generating a bit more clubhead speed.

Lots of "tends to…" but no guarantees.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Unfortunately this is the typo of answer that's common in these kinds of discussions.

Draws tend to go farther because people tend to hit them with less loft. But that's nowhere near a guarantee.

Consider the clubface to be a flat object with a given amount of loft. Does it really matter - does the ball even care - whether the clubface is moving 3° to the left or 3° to the right during impact if the clubhead speed, centeredness of strike, and loft are the same?

No. They'd go the exact same distance.

Another reason fades tend to go shorter: people are already pulling their elbows apart in swinging left. In swinging out to the right a bit, they extend their arms, generating a bit more clubhead speed.

Lots of "tends to…" but no guarantees.

Thanks Erik.  Regarding the elbows coming apart, my guess is that that's a flaw in the swing, not something naturally happens when swinging a bit out to in.  The main reason I posted this question is because I noticed on well struck fades I wasn't loosing distance. After trial and error on the range, I've found that best fades I can hit are the ones where I pretty much make the exact same swing I do when I hit a draw; only differences are 1) I line up left of the target, and 2) I hold off my release.  I still try to get full extension through the swing.  The ones that end up starting on a line right of the one I intended, and curving too far right of the target, are the ones where I don't trust the path and end up pulling my arms in and in essence bailing on the swing.  Those are shorter, no question.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Typically a 'fade' would be shorter than a draw, as it will land softer and roll less.  However I know for certain that a power fade could go as far a draw.  If you want to hit a big slider with a fade shape then you can seriously bomb it out there.

also depending on the lie of the hole fairway a fade may be the correct shot for the ball to go further.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the difference between a fade a power fade. Don't you want to hit all fades powerfully...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the difference between a fade a power fade. Don't you want to hit all fades powerfully...

A "power fade" is a well-aimed slice that ends up in the fairway.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

A high arching fade (cut) to a protected pin is a beautiful thing. For me to produce a fade, I have to "hold off" my swing at the end whereas for a draw, I ripping through the follow through. Haven't done any swing monitoring, but I imagine the swing speed for the fade is less. If you naturally fade, this may not be the case. Then there are always those quacking duck hooks that end up 2 fairways over. :-D
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    PING Golf
    Leupold Golf
    Snell Golf
    Talamore Golf Resort
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • Yeah i think you make a good point. it might be easy to dial it back if you have a solid full swing, but i don't think a half swing is the same as a chipping swing ya know. and i think you're absolutely right, there is a little bit of a turn in the half swing as well. that is what i alluded to earlier i think. it was just the amount to focus on a full turn vs. 3/4 turn/ vs. half turn.  That is so true as well. I could stand to limit some difficult second shots, and potential drops from a hazard. I actually didn't think about this that much. The other thought i have on this is the feedback from the distribution of practice, is that whether i am in position at the top of the full swing or not, my mind is able to get the club face back to the ball to at least compensate for being out of position and get the ball out in play, meaning that the practice itself( not the outcome of perfect practice) is not always as beneficial although it can have more benefits in its mastery! Where as the half swing, if you are not in position at the top of a half swing, it is very very difficult to compensate and get back to the ball, while not as much improvement, the improvement is easier to come by i would think. The swing really does have to be very precise to even be able to make solid contact. So that is the dilemma I see in placing more emphasis on one or the other. Ill revise my thinking and say that they are both more so equally important. for every full swing, there needs to be a 3/4 swing as well as a half swing so that you can still make sure to keep good position throughout the entire swing. But that we also match up the benefits of different types of practice with their ease of mastery and what that is dependent on. I think i will see where that philosophy leads. start to practice them equally as much and see how the improvement goes. It is always great to hear this feedback to help me revise my thoughts on the golf swing. appreciate it @DaveP043
    • Well it is not as simple as just throwing my leg up. It would be more of a result of increased momentum of my turn. I do try to catch the ball on my upswing  and hope to carry it through.
    • I don't think you would want to do it on purpose.  Meaning like @MRR stated you don't want to do it consciously as this involves different muscles and memory patterns and will probably throw your swing off.  I'm not sure that any of these guys realize they are doing it.  Obviously they have seen it while watching themselves, but I don't think its something they were trying to do for extra power.  Bubba Watson does it too, so its not just the "vertically challenged" that do it they are just swinging at 120+mph so that's the result of it.
    •  If Donald Ross didn't visit the site of a golf course when asked to design it, what process did he use to design the golf courses? Did he required any sort of geographical information, like a survey? Here's an excerpt from a letter he wrote to Ponkapoag:
      "I will require a general plan of the property on a scale of one inch equals one hundred feet and contours at five foot intervals to be supplied by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. After the course is laid out I will submit a general plan of the whole layout and also individual plans and specifications for each hole. Mr. Walter B. Hatch, my Associate...expects to call on you..." In the case of Ponkapoag, he did visit. However, the letter gives you some sense of how part of that process worked. ......................................................
          How would you describe his philosophy when it came to designing a golf course? Ah, one could write an entire book on that alone. There's a large chapter on that in the Ross book (I did another book on how they transformed the barren wasteland of Pinehurst into a dreamworld previously: amazon.com/author/chrisbuie)
      He tried to incorporate all the natural features of the land. He tried to accommodate a wide variety of playing levels. He wanted thinking/strategy to be part of the experience. There are many, many different parts to how he approached design.
      Basically, he tried to make his designs as invigorating and intriguing and enjoyable as he could. ......................................................
       Did he actually visit the Lucerne area to see the course or was this a "postcard" design?  And are there very many Donald Ross 9 hole courses remaining?
      I don't think there are an abundance of 9 hole courses. In the appendix of my book there is a complete list (as we know it at this time) of all his courses. One of the items noted is how many holes he designed at each course. Regarding Lucerne, have a look here and tell me what you think and we'll discuss further:
      http://givenmemoriallibrary.net/vex/vex1/67EEF659-E134-4E4C-8C8E-397028601766.htm That is from the Tufts Archives in Pinehurst, by the way. It is an organization absolutely worth supporting.
      http://giventufts.org/tufts-archives You can find information on many of the individual courses here:
      http://givenmemoriallibrary.net/vex/vex1/toc.htm  
    • Now THERE is a VLOG! I just wanted to bump this thread for a few reasons: To get it going again. I want people to consider vlogging their rounds this season. It's fun, and editing can be fun (and it can be pretty painless, especially once you get good at it). To point out that we have a new VLOG award! It's not been awarded to anyone yet, but you can find it here: https://thesandtrap.com/awards/category/2-site-awards/. To earn this badge you have to have completed 3 VLOGs and posted them here. VLOGs should be at least seven holes, since that's what counts for a nine-hole round posted for handicap. To encourage people to post VLOGs of OTHER people playing. It doesn't just have to be us. It can be like the above. I think the Newport Cup applications have led to some really nice VLOGs already. Let's see some more!
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Judah Ben-Hur
      Judah Ben-Hur
      (55 years old)
    2. Kalnoky
      Kalnoky
      (41 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon