Is cost the reason for decline in new golfers?

[Morocco Mako]

The problem isn't what golf is or isn't, the problem is how golf is perceived by the public, because perception is reality.

The public perceives golf as expensive.

The public perceives golf as exclusionary.

The public perceives golf as difficult.

The public perceives golf as time consuming.

Arguing on a board won't change the public's perception.

I've wondered why the golf industry doesn't use the same tactic as the milk industry or the Calif. cheese farmers (happy cows) to promote their industry. It will take something like that to get non-golfers to consider taking up the game.

[Elmer]

The problem isn't what golf is or isn't, the problem is how golf is perceived by the public, because perception is reality.

The public perceives golf as expensive.

The public perceives golf as exclusionary.

The public perceives golf as difficult.

The public perceives golf as time consuming.

Arguing on a board won't change the public's perception.

I've wondered why the golf industry doesn't use the same tactic as the milk industry or the Calif. cheese farmers (happy cows) to promote their industry. It will take something like that to get non-golfers to consider taking up the game.

I think the PGA wants more people to play & I think courses want the economic benefits of more people playing.

However I do not know if realistically, courses want first time, novice hackers learning to play on the course.

You would think courses would have more reasonably priced clinics.

I dont know what the cost is elsewhere but around her $40 for a 1/2 lesson is the going rate.

So you can either play a round or take a lesson.

[Slice of Life]

""Bad golfers" that are keeping score are slow. No way around it no matter how hard they try. It's just simple math."

I shot a 90 the other day by myself. Took me less than 2 hours to finish 18 holes. About 1:45.

So using simple math, assuming you mean bad to be worse than 90, we'll assume 120. If we extrapolate the time evenly (which it wouldn't be...it would actually be less), I could still finish in 2:20.

I've played foursomes with bad golfers who keep score, and we've finished 18 in 3 hours.

Bad golf can take longer, but it doesn't make you slow.

[MS256]

I shot a 90 the other day by myself. Took me less than 2 hours to finish 18 holes. About 1:45.

So using simple math, assuming you mean bad to be worse than 90, we'll assume 120. If we extrapolate the time evenly (which it wouldn't be...it would actually be less), I could still finish in 2:20.

I've played foursomes with bad golfers who keep score, and we've finished 18 in 3 hours.

Bad golf can take longer, but it doesn't make you slow.

The "simple math" was Moppy quoting me.

And I stick by it. Whatever you shot and however long it took you to shoot it you would have been faster using less strokes (simple math).

You obviously didn't hit the ball all over the yard finishing in 2 hours. My son and I played in less than 3 hours yesterday and we both played fairly well and we are usually fast golfers by almost anybody's standards. My son, my cousin and I finished in a little over 4 hours the day before on the same course.

Neither my cousin nor I played very well and spent quite a bit of time looking for our golf balls in the rough plus I would call my cousin slow anyway. Luckily the people behind us were slower than we were. If worse had come to worse I would have skipped a hole or some shots or something but it never came to that.

[Morocco Mako]

I think the PGA wants more people to play

I'm not so sure the PGA cares how many people play. Their money stream comes TV & sponsorships (advertisers).

I believe the USGA is in the same boat. Most of their money comes from the TV revenue they get from putting on pro tournaments.

Perhaps part of the problem is the big golf organizations don't directly benefit from more people playing golf. They're focused on the things that bring in the money to their organizations: pro tournaments, TV, and the associated ad revenue.

Maybe what golf needs is an organization made up of groups that directly benefit when more people play the game. Probably made up of equipment makers, golf courses, and teachers.

[Lihu]

I shot a 90 the other day by myself. Took me less than 2 hours to finish 18 holes. About 1:45.

So using simple math, assuming you mean bad to be worse than 90, we'll assume 120. If we extrapolate the time evenly (which it wouldn't be...it would actually be less), I could still finish in 2:20.

I've played foursomes with bad golfers who keep score, and we've finished 18 in 3 hours.

Bad golf can take longer, but it doesn't make you slow.

That is pretty fast.

It seems, you take way longer on the driving range to make shots given you mentioned in another post that you hit 25 balls in 2 hours?

[Dave2512]

How bad someone's golf is more about lost balls and the resulting hunting than score. My experience limited to a certain group, guys between 18-40.

[Slice of Life]

That is pretty fast.

It seems, you take way longer on the driving range to make shots given you mentioned in another post that you hit 25 balls in 2 hours?

Well, at the range...I'm working on things. I may spend 5 minutes taking practice takeaways and adjusting my posture before even taking a full practice swing, which I may do 2-3 times before I actually hit a ball. Not to mention watching back video to see what feels are doing what I want, and what feels aren't working.

At the golf course I go up to my ball, grab a club, take a practice swing, address the ball, hit it. Boom. 15 seconds between parking and striking the ball.

Big difference.

[Lihu]

Well, at the range...I'm working on things. I may spend 5 minutes taking practice takeaways and adjusting my posture before even taking a full practice swing, which I may do 2-3 times before I actually hit a ball. Not to mention watching back video to see what feels are doing what I want, and what feels aren't working.

At the golf course I go up to my ball, grab a club, take a practice swing, address the ball, hit it. Boom. 15 seconds between parking and striking the ball.

Big difference.

The main difference is that I hit a lot more balls on the range where I've adjusted for the ground/lie in a few shots, and it takes me a lot longer to get the feel for the lie when I am playing.

I take a couple practice swings, but it takes me some time to find "equivalent ground" so that I can somewhat simulate the ground depth. This takes me about 20-45 seconds before I make my shot. Probably just don't have that feel yet.

[Golfingdad]

Well, at the range...I'm working on things. I may spend 5 minutes taking practice takeaways and adjusting my posture before even taking a full practice swing, which I may do 2-3 times before I actually hit a ball. Not to mention watching back video to see what feels are doing what I want, and what feels aren't working.

At the golf course I go up to my ball, grab a club, take a practice swing, address the ball, hit it. Boom. 15 seconds between parking and striking the ball.

Big difference.

Ever consider slowing down a bit ... to see if it helps your game?  Seriously.  Under 2 hours is off the charts fast.  I've played once by myself (for 9 holes) and it took me 1:15 ... and I was flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyying.

Maybe a couple more deep breaths, a second or two to actually survey what might be the best option for the next shot, take into consideration wind and elevation change, part of the green the pin is on, etc, etc, etc, might help you.  You can still get through 18 in 2:15 or 2:30.

Just a thought.

[Dinoma]

The public perceives golf as expensive.

Agreed, and I think as much as we might argue otherwise it is expensive to start up. I played Rugby for 20 years before I took up golf and all I needed to provide was a pair of boots at roughly the same price as a pair of golf shoes. Sure we can have cheap rounds, buy cheap gear and hit cheap balls, but it is not a cheap sport to get into.

The public perceives golf as exclusionary.

Definitely. For me this was the number one problem when I started golf. Just how do you get to a level where you feel welcome on the course when as a high handicap golfer you are not welcome on the course.
No matter that I would do everything I could to keep up with the group in front (which is all one can do to be up to speed) I'd get snarky comments and an attitude about my high handicap golf.
Something I make every effort not to repeat if I see people taking up the sport and understanding that's its pace of play not skill of play that counts. I am more often held up by 'serious' golfers than diggers.

The public perceives golf as difficult.

Not so sure about this - I think until you get playing properly you don't realise how the difficulty never goes away. Bizarrely I found golf 'easy' to start with cos the level of improvement was easily attainable, something I certainly don;t think after my first year or so of playing.

The public perceives golf as time consuming.

It is. Ironically though not something I thought about until I took it up.

[Lihu]

Definitely. For me this was the number one problem when I started golf. Just how do you get to a level where you feel welcome on the course when as a high handicap golfer you are not welcome on the course.

No matter that I would do everything I could to keep up with the group in front (which is all one can do to be up to speed) I'd get snarky comments and an attitude about my high handicap golf.

Something I make every effort not to repeat if I see people taking up the sport and understanding that's its pace of play not skill of play that counts. I am more often held up by 'serious' golfers than diggers.

Never got these, but I did get kicked off a course for slow play when I first started. The main issue is if you hit 100 yards then another 50 and another 50 etc. Even if you are moving pretty fast, they still need to wait to tee off.

If I could do it all over again, I would have gone to the driving range for 6 months with good instruction. Next, I would hit the Par 3 until I was good at those. After that, I would move to an executive course either 9 hole or a really shot 18 hole course until I could shoot 5-10 over. Finally, hit the big courses off the shortest tees. This process would probably have taken a year.

Until this year, when I got some decent instruction, I felt that all the money and time I spent prior was totally wasted.

So, for a beginner to start off it would be $10/bucket and a SW and 6i or something like that for at least 6 months. Then it would be those same two clubs until they get good on the par 3 courses.

The breakthrough would be to get onto the executive courses with a more or less full set of clubs.

By the time they hit the "full course" milestone, they will be more willing and ready to spend the money on well fitted equipment and the $40 greens fees.

[Dinoma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Never got these, but I did get kicked off a course for slow play when I first started. The main issue is if you hit 100 yards then another 50 and another 50 etc. Even if you are moving pretty fast, they still need to wait to tee off.

This is true, but if I am waiting on the 18th to pitch onto the green as the group in front finish, I feel I have done my bit to keep up with play. Its irrelevant how I got there.

Quote:

If I could do it all over again, I would have gone to the driving range for 6 months with good instruction. Next, I would hit the Par 3 until I was good at those. After that, I would move to an executive course either 9 hole or a really shot 18 hole course until I could shoot 5-10 over. Finally, hit the big courses off the shortest tees. This process would probably have taken a year.

So, for a beginner to start off it would be $10/bucket and a SW and 6i or something like that for at least 6 months. Then it would be those same two clubs until they get good on the par 3 courses.

I understand this, but its the voice of a golfer talking. Too many people would give up before they even got to the course following this strategy. As odd as it is, its the improvement over 18 real holes that kept me coming back for more punishment, along with the enjoyment of a morning out with my mates. At the driving range I think this interest would have waned.

[Slice of Life]

Ever consider slowing down a bit ... to see if it helps your game?  Seriously.  Under 2 hours is off the charts fast.  I've played once by myself (for 9 holes) and it took me 1:15 ... and I was flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyying.

Maybe a couple more deep breaths, a second or two to actually survey what might be the best option for the next shot, take into consideration wind and elevation change, part of the green the pin is on, etc, etc, etc, might help you.  You can still get through 18 in 2:15 or 2:30.

Just a thought.

One of my fastest rounds ever was Tuesday. I shot a 77. Even par on the back 9.

It doesn't feel all that different to me to finish in 1:45, or 3:30. I just have less time to BS while I wait. Keep in mind that I drive too, if I walked it would slow it down quite a bit.

It just doesn't take me long. I see ball, I hit ball. I don't try to think too much about wind and elevation changes because I'm not on that level yet. If the wind is in my face, I club up, if it's with me, I club down. Same with elevation but that's as far as I take it.

An older guy told us to play through and said "take your time, you don't need to rush for me"...I told him that's just how I'd been playing that day and it was working haha.

As far as the pin, I don't really care where it is...I'm aiming left 1/3rd of the green and if it goes straight...cool...if I fade it...even cooler.

[Lihu]

This is true, but if I am waiting on the 18th to pitch onto the green as the group in front finish, I feel I have done my bit to keep up with play. Its irrelevant how I got there.

I understand this, but its the voice of a golfer talking. Too many people would give up before they even got to the course following this strategy. As odd as it is, its the improvement over 18 real holes that kept me coming back for more punishment, along with the enjoyment of a morning out with my mates. At the driving range I think this interest would have waned.

I suppose different people like different things.

I didn't really start to enjoy golf until my shots felt good. It actually feels good making good shots. I could score a double bogey, but if every shot was clean and nearly at maximum distance I would still feel good about the play.

So, it does not cost that much to hit balls, and you can get that good feeling while only paying $10/bucket for 2 hours of entertainment.

I agree that being able to carry that onto the course is a really nice feeling.

[newtogolf]

I suppose different people like different things.

I didn't really start to enjoy golf until my shots felt good. It actually feels good making good shots. I could score a double bogey, but if every shot was clean and nearly at maximum distance I would still feel good about the play.

So, it does not cost that much to hit balls, and you can get that good feeling while only paying $10/bucket for 2 hours of entertainment.

I agree that being able to carry that onto the course is a really nice feeling.

We're all motivated by different thing, some people (like me) love stats, they want track everything and look at their performance across every level of their game.  Others just care about the bottom line, score.

I know some golfers that don't care about score, they just like being outside hitting golf balls on the course with friends.  They don't stress over scores or handicaps but play decent enough that they aren't embarrassed and have a good time.

[mcanadiens]

If I had to wait until I was hitting every shot well at the range, I would have never played a single round of golf.

[Lihu]

If I had to wait until I was hitting every shot well at the range, I would have never played a single round of golf.

Just well enough to move the ball far enough forward that you don't have 4 people standing around waiting for you every hole.