Patrick Reed's Homophobic Outburst

[Shorty]

I have to say that I am quite shocked to read the comments about Reed's outburst in Shanghai.

Sentiments seemed to be either:

That's nothing. You should hear me swear.

You hear worse at (X sport) fixtures.

Let's wait for the PC crowd to get hold of this.

He's just showing his frustration.

Can't blame a guy for wanting to do well.

Profanity is common everywhere. Why pick on golf?

Fact is, this is nothing to do with "profanity".

It's about a homophobic slur and the notion that calling someone (yourself) a "faggot" is an insult.

It's about the idea of this term being a put down. A horrible insult. The worst thing you can call someone if you really want to show how you feel about them. Or yourself at that moment.

Here's a suggestion for those of you who may have an audience of twenty or thirty people (not millions) of all persuasions and genders next time you're at work: When the photocopier breaks down or the computer won't load a file, or you drop something, let out a cry that involves the term "Fu*&ing; faggot" and see if you are working there the next day.

If you say you would be and that it would be no problem, then I rest my case.

Is it OK if a coach says that when someone drops a catch or misses an easy shot?

Another challenge: If it isn't an insult, when was the last time you heard a golfer say that when they holed a long putt?

This episode is proof of the outdated and homophobic nature of so many golfers.

The true test will be when a gay player makes the Ryder Cup team and his partner or husband is present at the games.

You think that would go down well? Even if he wasn't wearing a ridiculous costume like WAGs are forced to?

It's not about swearing. It's about acceptance, bigotry and homophobia.

If the gay community isn't OK with it, nor should you be.

[iacas]

Poor thread topic title. Should have just called it "I can't believe…" I'll change it when I get to a computer.

[saevel25]

I have to say that I am quite shocked to read the comments about Reed's outburst in Shanghai.

Fact is, this is nothing to do with "profanity".

It's about a homophobic slur and the notion that calling someone (yourself) a "faggot" is an insult.

It's about the idea of this term being a put down. A horrible insult. The worst thing you can call someone if you really want to show how you feel about them. Or yourself at that moment.

I agree with this. I couldn't care less if he dropped the typical curse words at himself. The use of certain words, especially racial slurs and insults towards sexual orientation, even in the context of insulting your self is just wrong.

I wouldn't doubt he has called someone else that before in his life. In the heat of the moment, being angry, I would say a person would tend to go towards something they have said before.

The true test will be when a gay player makes the Ryder Cup team and his partner or husband is present at the games.

You think that would go down well? Even if he wasn't wearing a ridiculous costume like WAGs are forced to?

It's not about swearing. It's about acceptance, bigotry and homophobia.

If the gay community isn't OK with it, nor should you be.

Ian Poulter might have a rival for most Flamboyant outfits on the golf course

I totally agree with you. So many people are willing to make excuses for Patrick Reed instead of defending those who are being oppressed by the use of that sort of language.

[Ernest Jones]

I am firmly in the camp that believes that intent matters more than words. Having said that, I am all for people choosing their words with caution and don't condone Reed or anyone else walking around dropping racial/sexual slurs but I am not ready to vilify him as I'm fairly certain that he was just being ignorant in his choice of words and had no hateful intent.

It's unfortunate that so many guys of Reed's generation grew up using fag as a general put-down without fully grasping how that may or may not impact someone who is actually gay. It's no better or worse than calling someone a "little bitch" or saying "hit it with your purse". Terribly boorish behaviour but not necessarily a glimpse into the boor's true nature.

[saevel25]

I am firmly in the camp that believes that intent matters more than words. Having said that, I am all for people choosing their words with caution and don't condone Reed or anyone else walking around dropping racial/sexual slurs but I am not ready to vilify him as I'm fairly certain that he was just being ignorant in his choice of words and had no hateful intent.

It's unfortunate that so many guys of Reed's generation grew up using fag as a general put-down without fully grasping how that may or may not impact someone who is actually gay. It's no better or worse than calling someone a "little bitch" or saying "hit it with your purse". Terribly boorish behaviour but not necessarily a glimpse into the boor's true nature.

I do believe that is the case with most words. Though I do believe that some words have been laced with so much hate towards a group of people they should never be said with or with out their original intent.

Yes if you wanted to rank, how bad was saying that word. Intent does matter in some regards, but not enough to give him a pass on it. At least how I look at it.

[Ernest Jones]

I do believe that is the case with most words. Though I do believe that some words have been laced with so much hate towards a group of people they should never be said with or with out their original intent.

Yes if you wanted to rank, how bad was saying that word. Intent does matter in some regards, but not enough to give him a pass on it. At least how I look at it.

It's all about context. George Carlin (and many others) have said and used some pretty horrific words but it was OK because of the context. I also think that some people kinda go out of their way to be offended, but I suppose that is their right to some degree.

[saevel25]

It's all about context. George Carlin (and many others) have said and used some pretty horrific words but it was OK because of the context. I also think that some people kinda go out of their way to be offended, but I suppose that is their right to some degree.

Ok, I do agree with that. For me the context has to be pretty specific.  In terms of an emotional out burst like Reed's, I don't think there is a justifiable context there.

[Ernest Jones]

Ok, I do agree with that. For me the context has to be pretty specific.  In terms of an emotional out burst like Reed's, I don't think there is a justifiable context there.

Yep. No doubt Reed was wrong.

Question is: does this make Reed a homophobic douche or just a juvenile twit? I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's just a juvenile twit.

[acerimusdux]

It's unfortunate that so many guys of Reed's generation grew up using fag as a general put-down without fully grasping how that may or may not impact someone who is actually gay.

He's 24 years old. Is there a generation yet that hasn't grown up in a culture where that was common?

I do pretty much agree with you, but I also think you probably can't change that culture unless people do complain when someone does this, so maybe people should raise a stink, and the guy should be embarassed. But the embarassment is probably punishment enough. I kind of felt the same about Ted Bishop and his "little girl" comment. Bishop grew up in the 50s and 60s where such language would have been even more common.

So yeah, I can understand it some, and don't think the guy should be vilified, but can't really object if people want to shame him a little.

[dchoye]

This is interesting topic I have a homosexual relative and I'm not into using the "faggot " term However sometimes I make the comment "that's so gay". And he gets upset. It's like I can't even say that in front of him

[Golfingdad]

Yep. No doubt Reed was wrong.

Question is: does this make Reed a homophobic douche or just a juvenile twit? I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's just a juvenile twit.

This is basically where I stand.  I've had moments of juvenile twittiness in my past too.  You get angry, you say or do something stupid, immediately regret it, and then try to do better next time.  I grew up saying faggot, homo, retard, and other things like that.  It was quite "accepted" not all that long ago.  I've realized none of those words are acceptable anymore, and do my best to never say them, but it'll still happen on that rare occasion.

It's also less of a deal because he was talking to himself.

Is Reed a homophobe?  Heck if I know, but I know that this one comment does not make him one.

I'm not really going to waste my time begrudging anybody who wants to make a big deal out of this, but I'm not going to be one of them.

[colin007]

This is interesting topic I have a homosexual relative and I'm not into using the "faggot " term However sometimes I make the comment "that's so gay". And he gets upset. It's like I can't even say that in front of him

Then don't use it in front if him. I have used the term fag and faggot in the past, will prolly use them at some point in the future, but only with buds. Never with people I don't know. Is it right? No. I'd like to use it less...

[Mr. Desmond]

True Story ... stick with me... It's what I consider homophobic, among other things, and may show how we've evolved as a society over 40 years. Yes, we still have work to do.

Was an undergrad at A&M; (conservative school - moreso at that time) in '76, living off campus, and we needed a 4th roommate for the semester. Younger athletic guy we don't know, seems okay, moves in, sleeps in, rarely went to class as he slept, left in the pm, and  rarely showed up for apartment meals. The guy would disappear on the weekends. He lived in Dallas.

I finally ask the guy once day after he had finished sleeping in, "How was the weekend?"

He says something like, "Oh, I hung around Dallas with friends. We go out to Cedar Springs and Oak Lawn (the first neighborhood for the gay community in Dallas) with my friends. We get our baseball bats and wait for "insert gay slur" to come out of the bars.  We follow them, and beat the crap out of them."

Me:  Something to the effect of "Seriously?"

Him: "Yeah, can't stand insert gay slur." (or something to that effect) and then he describes one incident.

We stayed clear of the guy -- he showed violent tendencies, and soon afterwards asked him to leave. It got a little wild.

The above behavior is outrageous, criminal and homophobic... if you've seen any specials on gay life in Russia -- you see similar behavior 40 years later -- Men in groups hunting down gays and beating/torturing them...

What Reid said is disturbing but I don't know if it is homophobic. I've heard guys his age use gay slurs in a cynical way directed at themselves. Is it right? Heck no. Does it happen? Of course. Some guys don't think when they get emotional. At the same time, I've know guys who blurt out slurs but have gay friends .... so what is going on? Stupidity, casualness, etc.

Over my 40 years as an adult, I've heard friends make similar slurs --- in the '70's, yes they were directed at an individual or group. Forty years later, with the same guys, I don't see that behavior any longer. Attitudes changes, social mores change ... we evolve. For some, the evolution may take the form of mere acceptance ... and that may be all we can expect or hope from a large segment of society.

A lot if it, I think, is fear of what we do not understand ...

[David in FL]

The things people get upset about just never cease to amaze me....

[David in FL]

True Story ... stick with me... It's what I consider homophobic, among other things, and may show how we've evolved as a society over 40 years. Yes, we still have work to do. Was an undergrad at A&M; (conservative school - moreso at that time) in '76, living off campus, and we needed a 4th roommate for the semester. Younger athletic guy we don't know, seems okay, moves in, sleeps in, rarely went to class as he slept, left in the pm, and  rarely showed up for apartment meals. The guy would disappear on the weekends. He lived in Dallas. I finally ask the guy once day after he had finished sleeping in, "How was the weekend?" He says something like, "Oh, I hung around Dallas with friends. We go out to Cedar Springs and Oak Lawn (the first neighborhood for the gay community in Dallas) with my friends. We get our baseball bats and wait for "insert gay slur" to come out of the bars.  We follow them, and beat the crap out of them." Me:  Something to the effect of "Seriously?" Him: "Yeah, can't stand insert gay slur." (or something to that effect) and then he describes one incident. We stayed clear of the guy -- he showed violent tendencies, and soon afterwards asked him to leave. It got a little wild.

Now THAT, is something to get concerned about! :bugout:

[MS256]

I called my brother a gay slur one morning at the kitchen table when I was about 8 years old. Didn't have a clue what it meant but I had heard kids at school say it so I knew it was meant to be derogatory. Next thing I knew my mom hit me in the side of the head with one of those big wooden kitchen spoons and said "Don't you ever call him that again!" I thought wow that word must be a lot worse than I thought it was. The kitchen spoon must have done the trick because I can't recall ever saying it again. For the most part I try to not say anything that I think is going to offend anybody but I also think a lot of people could use some thicker skin and could stop looking for ways to be offended.

[inthehole]

The things people get upset about just never cease to amaze me....

pretty much this

[Ernest Jones]

So I guess you did not like story time?

You assume a lot ...

That wasn't part of story time.

Good of you to assume the worst, though.

My father was FBI in Dallas ... I let him know.

Seems like a fairly important part of the story no?

Yoda would have left that part in...