Is Distance Really That Important for Amateurs?

[14ledo81]

Doesn't work well for me. I hit a PW 120-130. Only carry my driver 210-220. Must have swing issues that get more penal with the Driver.

[Lihu]

Doesn't work well for me. I hit a PW 120-130. Only carry my driver 210-220.

Must have swing issues that get more penal with the Driver.

It is also possible that the type of irons you are using might help you gain a little distance with those?

[onthehunt526]

It is also possible that the type of irons you are using might help you gain a little distance with those?

[quote name="14ledo81" url="/t/78188/is-distance-really-that-important-for-amateurs/900#post_1099418"]Doesn't work well for me. I hit a PW 120-130. Only carry my driver 210-220. Must have swing issues that get more penal with the Driver.[/quote] [quote name="Lihu" url="/t/78188/is-distance-really-that-important-for-amateurs/900#post_1099421"] It is also possible that the type of irons you are using might help you gain a little distance with those? [/quote] Not necessarily, some people hit irons better than woods... like when I was younger (in high school) my carry distance with my Driver was around 280 with a 310 total (I carried a 6.5° Driver at the Time)... I carried and I stress carried my PW 160... I wasn't playing SGI irons either I was playing Titleist 990b irons at the time (49° PW)... I was hitting down on my irons so much and de-lofting the club I was turning my wedge into almost 7-iron... but that's entirely a different thread, which I've already started... I want a hamburger, no a cheeseburger, I want a Hot dog I want a milkshake I want potato chips... you'll get nothing and like it

[Lihu]

Not necessarily, some people hit irons better than woods... like when I was younger (in high school) my carry distance with my Driver was around 280 with a 310 total (I carried a 6.5° Driver at the Time)... I carried and I stress carried my PW 160... I wasn't playing SGI irons either I was playing Titleist 990b irons at the time (49° PW)... I was hitting down on my irons so much and de-lofting the club I was turning my wedge into almost 7-iron... but that's entirely a different thread, which I've already started...

I want a hamburger, no a cheeseburger, I want a Hot dog I want a milkshake I want potato chips... you'll get nothing and like it

According to the chart you posted on percentage, I hit irons better than woods but not by that much.

Wow, you went from hitting 280 yards to 258? That's a significant drop for someone so young. Did you say you were in an accident? Maybe some PT can get you back to your old standard again?

[onthehunt526]

According to the chart you posted on percentage, I hit irons better than woods but not by that much. Wow, you went from hitting 280 yards to 258? That's a significant drop for someone so young. Did you say you were in an accident? Maybe some PT can get you back to your old standard again?

Car wreck four years ago... I'm lucky to be alive... slowly but surely it's coming back... but I can't turn the way I use to... I'm not Ben Hogan... Anyway my distance is slowly coming back but I probably won't get all of it back but I'll take 270 carry...

[14ledo81]

[QUOTE name="14ledo81" url="/t/78188/is-distance-really-that-important-for-amateurs/918#post_1099418"] Doesn't work well for me. I hit a PW 120-130. Only carry my driver 210-220. Must have swing issues that get more penal with the Driver.[/QUOTE] It is also possible that the type of irons you are using might help you gain a little distance with those?

I am sure that's part of it. Still think I hit my shorter irons better than my handicap and my longer clubs worse.

[rkim291968]

Recently, through workout, club change, and swing lessons, I gained distance (5 yards on shorter clubs, and10 - 20 yards on longer ones).   My score did not improve with an average gain of 10 yards distance.   If my golf game improved, it was hardly noticeable.   More recently, I started to hit my drives 20 yards, hybrids 10 - 15 yards, and irons 5 - 8 yards longer on average.   Now, I can see tangible results in improved score.  No victory dance yet.   Increased distance gave me more pars but it also gave me an equal share of (longer) balls ending up in hazards, OBs, and well past greens.

[Lihu]

Recently, through workout, club change, and swing lessons, I gained distance (5 yards on shorter clubs, and10 - 20 yards on longer ones).   My score did not improve with an average gain of 10 yards distance.   If my golf game improved, it was hardly noticeable.   More recently, I started to hit my drives 20 yards, hybrids 10 - 15 yards, and irons 5 - 8 yards longer on average.   Now, I can see tangible results in improved score.  No victory dance yet.   Increased distance gave me more pars but it also gave me an equal share of (longer) balls ending up in hazards, OBs, and well past greens.

You'll probably notice the change more when you have some time to adjust to the new distances.

[The Recreational Golfer]

If most of us found a way to hit our driver farther, it would only get us ten or twenty yards, not fifty or sixty. My best drives go 235 or so. Once every few rounds I bust one 250. No way I'll ever be able to drive the ball 280-290.

So next time you play, pick up your drive and move it twenty yards farther down from where it ended up and see how the extra distance affects your score.

Another time, try putting your drives that miss the fairway back in the fairway, but at the same distance.

I'm not sayin' what might happen, just to try it and see what happens.

[Jakester23]

If most of us found a way to hit our driver farther, it would only get us ten or twenty yards, not fifty or sixty. My best drives go 235 or so. Once every few rounds I bust one 250. No way I'll ever be able to drive the ball 280-290. So next time you play, pick up your drive and move it twenty yards farther down from where it ended up and see how the extra distance affects your score. Another time, try putting your drives that miss the fairway back in the fairway, but at the same distance. I'm not sayin' what might happen, just to try it and see what happens.

20 yards is almost 2 clubs less for me so I know what would happen I'd hit more greens. 7i,6i, 5i, and up are all tough (for me) to get GIR's. That wouldn't change much by being in the fairway they are still tough approach shots.

[natureboy]

Here's a graphic that I think is relevant to this discussion. It charts the ratio of average driving distance to degrees offline by handicap / average score (on a course rating of 72).

I think it captures the sheer difficulty of the learning curve (~ exponential) at the low end of score / high end of skill level. Average PGA skill level roughly equates with 69 average score. In 2013 , Henrik Stenson (1) was about 97.5, Boo Weekly (2) 97.2, Jordan Spieth (3) 97.1 , Rory McIlroy (21) 90.7, Tiger Woods (52) 87.5, and Mike Weir (180) 66.0. The difference between Stenson during his great run and Mike Weir is really interesting and underscores how every piece of one's game has to be sharp to score. Stenson's scoring average was 2.36 strokes better than Weir even with a vastly sharper long game. Weir's short game was similarly sharper than Stenson's and allowed him to compensate significantly, but only so much since he was building on a weaker foundation. If you could have combined their strengths into one player he would have probably won about everything that year.

I think it also shows why long driving bifurcated as a specialty pursuit. Longer hits are clearly advantageous, but the longer you hit the straighter you have to be to keep your shot dispersion to an acceptable margin in order to hit your targets with sufficient frequency. Being really long and really straight is a crazy steep learning curve.

[RandallT]

Here's a graphic that I think is relevant to this discussion. It charts the ratio of average driving distance to degrees offline by handicap / average score (on a course rating of 72).

So the x-axis is score. The y-axis is YDS/degrees offline.   A 250 yard drive 5* off yields a 50?  I think I got it. Takes a while to digest. I'm a bit slow

[natureboy]

So the x-axis is score. The y-axis is YDS/degrees offline.   A 250 yard drive 5* off yields a 50?  I think I got it. Takes a while to digest. I'm a bit slow

Yessir. Spot on. I should have added axis labels on this chart to clarify between the similar values.

An additional thought about the curve - I expect the tail really extends out to the right a bit towards higher scores for the whole golf population rather than dropping so sharply down to 0, though this feature probably reflects the learning curve of an individual golfer starting out from extremely wild until they get enough consistency to get on the linear portion. The best 'natural' curve fit is a power law relationship with a smoother drop off with increasing score with an intersection of 100 at score of 65.

[Lihu]

 

Here's a graphic that I think is relevant to this discussion. It charts the ratio of average driving distance to degrees offline by handicap / average score (on a course rating of 72).

 

I think it captures the sheer difficulty of the learning curve (~ exponential) at the low end of score / high end of skill level. Average PGA skill level roughly equates with 69 average score. In 2013, Henrik Stenson (1) was about 97.5, Boo Weekly (2) 97.2, Jordan Spieth (3) 97.1 , Rory McIlroy (21) 90.7, Tiger Woods (52) 87.5, and Mike Weir (180) 66.0. The difference between Stenson during his great run and Mike Weir is really interesting and underscores how every piece of one's game has to be sharp to score. Stenson's scoring average was 2.36 strokes better than Weir even with a vastly sharper long game. Weir's short game was similarly sharper than Stenson's and allowed him to compensate significantly, but only so much since he was building on a weaker foundation. If you could have combined their strengths into one player he would have probably won about everything that year.

 

I think it also shows why long driving bifurcated as a specialty pursuit. Longer hits are clearly advantageous, but the longer you hit the straighter you have to be to keep your shot dispersion to an acceptable margin in order to hit your targets with sufficient frequency. Being really long and really straight is a crazy steep learning curve.

 

 

This is great!

[saevel25]

I think it also shows why long driving bifurcated as a specialty pursuit. Longer hits are clearly advantageous, but the longer you hit the straighter you have to be to keep your shot dispersion to an acceptable margin in order to hit your targets with sufficient frequency. Being really long and really straight is a crazy steep learning curve.

I think you can also take it as that longer hitters are given more leeway. If a guy hits it 250 yards at 3 degrees, he'll have a 75 rating. A longer hitter, let's say 325 yards can match his same rating but at 4 degrees. So he gets 1 degree extra leeway.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallT

So the x-axis is score. The y-axis is YDS/degrees offline.   A 250 yard drive 5* off yields a 50?  I think I got it. Takes a while to digest. I'm a bit slow

Yessir. Spot on. I should have added axis labels on this chart to clarify between the similar values.

An additional thought about the curve - I expect the tail really extends out to the right a bit towards higher scores for the whole golf population rather than dropping so sharply down to 0, though this feature probably reflects the learning curve of an individual golfer starting out from extremely wild until they get enough consistency to get on the linear portion. The best 'natural' curve fit is a power law relationship with a smoother drop off with increasing score with an intersection of 100 at score of 65.

I think the graph is commanding people who score 118 or higher to stop using the driver!

Pretty cool chart though- what is the source of the data? Curious where there is any data published on degrees of accuracy.

[DrvFrShow]

I pulled up Google Earth.

So I'm looking at my courses from center of fairway to end of first cut. I have +/- 20 yds to play with. I'm hitting my driver 230 - 235 max +30 -15. So if it goes left I'm on. If it goes right I could be in big trouble. I'm chipping out.

I looked at some of the lies I've ended up with on some holes with my fantastic driver accuracy. On one hole for example if I draw my line back to the tee to where I have a playable line to the green for a second shot, I lose about 75 yds. That puts me in the second cut with a line to the green or a 153 yd drive instead of that crappy 228 yd drive. I should have hit a 5 iron off the tee and kept the ball in play - 175 yds in the fairway or at most a 4 hybrid off the tee.

Other winners include the 215 yd shot that's in the second cut but in an impossible situation where I have to hit a knock down out onto the fairway so I can advance the ball. That has to go back to about 155 yds to where I have a line to the green, and I'm now in the first cut on the right. I could still hit that tree with my second shot, but I'll probably play military golf and end up on the left side of the fairway some 170 yds further down. So hitting a driver cost me 60 yds here. Again I should have hit a 4 hybrid for 180 yds and at least kept the ball on the fairway.

I have a ton of other "winners."

The lesson learned for me is to leave the driver at home . Tee off with the longest club I can control . Practice my short game and my putting. I will shooting in the 80s because I will make fewer mistakes and be hitting out of less trouble. No this isn't the fun way to play golf. But I'm not ready to hit the big dog on the course.

The driver is the reason these women who can only hit a 150 yd drive kick my ass week after week with gross scores. They're on fairway with it. I'm hitting recovery shots and taking penalties.

Take lessons and learn how to hit the big dog, but don't play in a competition with the big dog until I can control the thing.

There I think I solved my 14 club dilemma. 3W, 7W, 3H, 4H, 5-GW, SW, LW, P

[Jakester23]

I pulled up Google Earth.

So I'm looking at my courses from center of fairway to end of first cut. I have +/- 20 yds to play with. I'm hitting my driver 230 - 235 max +30 -15. So if it goes left I'm on. If it goes right I could be in big trouble. I'm chipping out.

I looked at some of the lies I've ended up with on some holes with my fantastic driver accuracy. On one hole for example if I draw my line back to the tee to where I have a playable line to the green for a second shot, I lose about 75 yds. That puts me in the second cut with a line to the green or a 153 yd drive instead of that crappy 228 yd drive. I should have hit a 5 iron off the tee and kept the ball in play - 175 yds in the fairway or at most a 4 hybrid off the tee.

Other winners include the 215 yd shot that's in the second cut but in an impossible situation where I have to hit a knock down out onto the fairway so I can advance the ball. That has to go back to about 155 yds to where I have a line to the green, and I'm now in the first cut on the right. I could still hit that tree with my second shot, but I'll probably play military golf and end up on the left side of the fairway some 170 yds further down. So hitting a driver cost me 60 yds here. Again I should have hit a 4 hybrid for 180 yds and at least kept the ball on the fairway.

I have a ton of other "winners."

The lesson learned for me is to leave the driver at home. Tee off with the longest club I can control. Practice my short game and my putting. I will shooting in the 80s because I will make fewer mistakes and be hitting out of less trouble. No this isn't the fun way to play golf. But I'm not ready to hit the big dog on the course.

The driver is the reason these women who can only hit a 150 yd drive kick my ass week after week with gross scores. They're on fairway with it. I'm hitting recovery shots and taking penalties.

Take lessons and learn how to hit the big dog, but don't play in a competition with the big dog until I can control the thing.

There I think I solved my 14 club dilemma. 3W, 7W, 3H, 4H, 5-GW, SW, LW, P

Have you ever worked on hitting the driver with a 60% swing at the range? What feels like 60% will be closer to a full swing than you think.  I think you will find that you only lose a little distance while gaining control.  I would definitely work on your driver (at the range Im not saying to take it to a tourney if you have no confidence in it).  If Im remembering correctly you have a real good deal of club head speed and you would probably be surprised how far you hit your driver with a nice controlled swing.  My swing thought last year for about 3 months was 80% and swing through. 80% for me was a full controlled swing.  How close are you 7w and 3H I have a 3H and a 4w and Im curious if there is room between them.