Article Says Real Reason for Slow Play is Short Tee Time Intervals

[rkim291968]

I recently played a few holes with glow ball.   I had a late tee time one day and didn't think I can finish.   Good thing I brought extra.   A golfer who got paired with me couldn't see anything as it grew dark.   He tried it and got a kick out of playing with a glow ball.   By then, we were the only group and we didn't hit anyone with our glow balls, or rolled off a cliff with our cart.

[FireDragon76]

I am surprised that intervals are not increased for safety reasons alone.

[natureboy]

I've seen 10 minute back ups, occasionally the 15-20 minute wait, but 40 minutes is unacceptable especially if a starter was present.

One thing I've generally observed from groups when there is a back up, large or small, is they do not actively try to eliminate it. I do not think they treat the first tee as they would the other 17 on the course. I've seen plenty of groups leave the putting green and arrive at the first tee right at their 11:00 AM tee time. Once they physically get on the tee box, each guy takes 4-10 practice swings because its the first tee and they want to make sure they are as loose as possible. Then they will look at each other for two minutes trying to decide on who will be the first to play, proceed to take "two off the first tee", run back to the cart to get that second ball, and finally after 7 minutes they are off. These things can add up without really being noticed by many.

Its another one of those may be they do not know, or may be they do not care situations, but just because the next group doesn't tee off for 8 minutes doesn't mean you have the tee box for 8 minutes. It means you have 8 minutes to play both your tee shot and approach shot in order to clear the fairway for the next group.

How about a countdown timer / shot clock on the first & 10th tees.

[GoodGuyGreg45]

How about a countdown timer / shot clock on the first & 10th tees.

What would be the tangible consequence for running over the allotted time? Multiple sports have some type of shot clock and teams still regularly accept the penalty for allowing it to expire.

I know a good amount of courses in my area are equipping carts with GPS, so maybe you track each groups pace of play through that. If your group takes longer than x amount of time then you're put on some type of blacklist. First offense you cannot play with more than 3 for your next two outings? Second offense you lose the privilege of riding if that is what you prefer or have to play during non peak times, and third offense you are suspended indefinitely? If people choose not to return then the particular course makes a name for themselves as a course not tolerant of slow play. Just like when you head up to the local YMCA and want to play basketball, you usually have the option of playing full court or half court games. Some courses could start branding in such a manner.

[Lihu]

What would be the tangible consequence for running over the allotted time? Multiple sports have some type of shot clock and teams still regularly accept the penalty for allowing it to expire. I know a good amount of courses in my area are equipping carts with GPS, so maybe you track each groups pace of play through that. If your group takes longer than x amount of time then you're put on some type of blacklist. First offense you cannot play with more than 3 for your next two outings? Second offense you lose the privilege of riding if that is what you prefer or have to play during non peak times, and third offense you are suspended indefinitely? If people choose not to return then the particular course makes a name for themselves as a course not tolerant of slow play. Just like when you head up to the local YMCA and want to play basketball, you usually have the option of playing full court or half court games. Some courses could start branding in such a manner.

If the cart has GPS it usually keeps score too, so it can give you ESC if you go over the time allowed? :-D

[saevel25]

If the cart has GPS it usually keeps score too, so it can give you ESC if you go over the time allowed?

They should eject you from the cart if you take too long. Then self drive back to the clubhouse and shut down.

[18rounds]

They should eject you from the cart if you take too long. Then self drive back to the clubhouse and shut down.

Nah, that wouldn't work. The ejected player could play on without the cart. How about not ejecting the player and the cart drives itself into a pond. :)

[saevel25]

Nah, that wouldn't work. The ejected player could play on without the cart.

How about not ejecting the player and the cart drives itself into a pond. :)

The cart has the clubs though

[rehmwa]

I would think overly difficult courses would slow down people more than anything.  searching for balls, etc take time

And there are just plain slow people.  Those are obvious and easily addressed though.

I don't think short intervals would matter - once you hit critical mass, you can shorten the times all you want, but that just means people will pile up at the #1 tee (or whatever hole defines the course choke point)

Most of the slow play complaints I see on threads seem to fall into a category that isn't really 'cause of slow play'.  They are actually just "stuff that I see that pisses me off when I'm stuck playing a slow round"  more of a correlation vs causation kind of thing really.  I can take a million practice swings and study a putt from 360 angles and share a story with the 4 some - it doesn't matter if the group in front of me is still waiting on the tee box.

Two things:

Big one - Design/difficulty - find the choke points in a course - go fix them.  that's how you free up the flow.  They'll be consistently backed up vs the rest of the course (not occasionally).  Or, push the choke point to the first hole.  Then the flow is free behind it.

Occasional one - find the insanely slow groups - (they are the ones with a crush behind them and more than one hole open after them) - kick them off, make them skip a hole

then set tee time intervals to match the natural flow of the course for the average player

If you want the course to play faster then?  you need it less difficult

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

If the cart has GPS it usually keeps score too, so it can give you ESC if you go over the time allowed?

They should eject you from the cart if you take too long. Then self drive back to the clubhouse and shut down.

Some players walk but I like the idea.  How about charging extra fee for groups falling behind the pace?   That'd' work.

My course does not do this often but I've seen it done.   When a group in a tournament fell behind by 2 holes, a marshal made them skip a hole.   Thanks, god for that.   We were behind them and they were going at 5+ hour pace.

[colin007]

i would rather start my round with a par 3 than end it with a par 3.  thats one of my biggest design pet peeves, a course that ends with a par 3.  so anti-climactic.

[Fourputt]

If the cart has GPS it usually keeps score too, so it can give you ESC if you go over the time allowed?

I've never seen a cart that keeps score.  I do like the GPS systems that show where the other groups around you are though.  I know immediately when the group in front is far enough out that I can hit, even when I can't see them.  So far I've only played one course with that sort of a nice setup.  I think I've only played 3 or 4 courses ever with GPS carts.  It's a costly investment, and most courses I play just haven't shaken loose enough capital to make that move.

[Golfingdad]

I've never seen a cart that keeps score.  I do like the GPS systems that show where the other groups around you are though.  I know immediately when the group in front is far enough out that I can hit, even when I can't see them.  So far I've only played one course with that sort of a nice setup.  I think I've only played 3 or 4 courses ever with GPS carts.  It's a costly investment, and most courses I play just haven't shaken loose enough capital to make that move.

A few of the courses around here that have the newer GPS systems also have an electronic scorecard function.  I've never tried it, though, because there is no way that pressing a bunch of buttons on a finicky touch screen is going to be faster than writing on the steering wheel with a pencil.

One of these GPS' near me that shows the other carts (which I agree, is really helpful) also has a little note on the screen that tells you how many minutes behind (or ahead of) the pace you are.  I will keep an eye on that one if we're not always pushing the guys in front of us.  EDIT:  In fact, here it is:

[Lihu]

A few of the courses around here that have the newer GPS systems also have an electronic scorecard function.  I've never tried it, though, because there is no way that pressing a bunch of buttons on a finicky touch screen is going to be faster than writing on the steering wheel with a pencil.

One of these GPS' near me that shows the other carts (which I agree, is really helpful) also has a little note on the screen that tells you how many minutes behind (or ahead of) the pace you are.  I will keep an eye on that one if we're not always pushing the guys in front of us.  EDIT:  In fact, here it is:

27 minutes ahead of pace? Nice!

[iacas]

27 minutes ahead of pace? Nice!

4:40 pace or so. I would suggest he's actually pretty close to being on pace.

3:06 is 13.3 minutes per hole. 239.14 minutes for 18 holes is almost 4 hours exactly. :)

[Dave2512]

The courses I play with geo-fenced and monitored carts are the fastest. They are also the longest and have the most travel between holes. I feel that because the cart takes some of the human element out of it enforcement is easier, you won't be confronted by a ranger until you have abused the policies enough to be asked skip ahead and catch up or asked to leave. The carts also keep golfers that tend to stray in the areas the should be. On path only holes if the cart leaves the path it is disabled. It is well thought out and the carts become a guide for the golfer. It's not impossible to dawdle but the warnings from the cart are not subtle, so I've heard. If it gets to the point there needs to be human interaction with slow golfers they disable them between holes and someone comes out. It's effective because there is a little shaming involved. They are stuck until the issue is resolved and riding there is mandatory so getting out to continue isn't an option. I don't play there much but in nearly three years only twice have I ever seen someone sitting in a disabled cart. Both times it was on the same hole.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

A few of the courses around here that have the newer GPS systems also have an electronic scorecard function.  I've never tried it, though, because there is no way that pressing a bunch of buttons on a finicky touch screen is going to be faster than writing on the steering wheel with a pencil.

One of these GPS' near me that shows the other carts (which I agree, is really helpful) also has a little note on the screen that tells you how many minutes behind (or ahead of) the pace you are.  I will keep an eye on that one if we're not always pushing the guys in front of us.  EDIT:  In fact, here it is:

27 minutes ahead of pace? Nice!

That 27 minutes can really jump around a lot.  That screen looks exactly like the one I've seen, and it will show us 10 minutes ahead of pace on the tee box, but if it takes us 10 minutes to play the hole, by the time we clear the green we are "on pace", but when we arrive at the next tee, we are suddenly 12 minutes ahead.  They seem to calculate pace hole by hole, without regard to where you are on the hole.  It's still a good measure of about how well you are doing.

[Divotmaker77]

My last three rounds were miserable.  5 hours each.  I normally get done in 3:30.  Was very frustrating.  Caused by older folks taking too much time, groups of 5, and just groups of hackers who hit multiple balls on each hole.   I know we all pay our money to play a round.  We all want to have fun and a good experience.  However, I can never get into a rhythm and as I play bad I get angrier and the experience ends up being a bad one.

Courses are so desperate for revenue they do not enforce the rules and do not have folks talk to groups to speed up play.  My last round was so bad I haven't played since and do not plan to for awhile.  So, as courses do whatever they have to make money they turn off those like me who just get tired of it and do not come back to their course.  Slow play will never go away.  I think we all get that.  However, when courses make no attempts to speed it up to me it shows a lack of respect for its paying customers.  If they do not care then I do not care to give me money to them.