Launch Differences between Mats and Grass

[iacas]

http://blog.trackmangolf.com/mats-vs-grass-whats-difference/

Cutting to the chase:

Thoughts?

I have some but will wait to share them.

[nevets88]

No idea. Could it be TM's readings aren't accurate off one of the surfaces? More distance from the mat with 2 mph slower club speed.

[Ernest Jones]

I suck at understanding all that trackman voodoo stuff, but I would guess that most players swing a little more aggressively on grass as they know sub-consciously that there isn't a slab of concrete under the grass, hence the higher club head speed and deeper AoA.

As for the extra height and distance from the mat, would it be due to different spin values caused by the difference in "club-turf" interaction?

In other words...I suck at understanding all that trackman voodoo stuff and have no idea...but I'm interested in knowing the theory.

[newtogolf]

No idea. Could it be TM's readings aren't accurate off one of the surfaces? More distance from the mat with 2 mph slower club speed.

I would think the surface and swing type would influence those numbers.  Someone that hits down on the ball might see a greater difference between mats and grass versus a "sweeper".  I would also guess the type of surface impacts how much "compression" or ball deformation one can achieve.  A hard mat should "compress" the ball more than soft grass.

[Ernest Jones]

I would think the surface and swing type would influence those numbers.  Someone that hits down on the ball might see a greater difference between mats and grass versus a "sweeper".  I would also guess the type of surface impacts how much "compression" or ball deformation one can achieve.  A hard mat should "compress" the ball more than soft grass.

I would think that the hitting surface would have little to no effect on ball "compression" or "deformation", afterall the ball isn't literally "pinched" as was previously though.

[Phil McGleno]

Right-Plus with a good player the ball is gone before the club really even interacts with grass / mat.[quote name="Ernest Jones" url="/t/78417/launch-differences-between-mats-and-grass#post_1080739"]I would think that the hitting surface would have little to no effect on ball "compression" or "deformation", afterall the ball isn't literally "pinched" as was previously though. [/quote]

[nevets88]

No idea. Could it be TM's readings aren't accurate off one of the surfaces? More distance from the mat with 2 mph slower club speed.

On re-reading, I meant to say, perhaps TM's readings are less accurate...

[rdsandy]

http://blog.trackmangolf.com/mats-vs-grass-whats-difference/

Cutting to the chase:

Thoughts?

I have some but will wait to share them.

Are all these values calculated? Specifically, the carry yds, height and landing angle?

[WUTiger]

Depending on a demo day's location, I have tried out irons off of both grass and mats. I seemed to be able to get a better feel for the iron hitting it off of grass.

Hitting irons off a mat is OK to get together a "short list" of possible irons, but I like off the turf for final decisions.

As far as launch angle and height goes, I suspect there' s an ideal mat firmness for scratch golfers, and one for 23 HDCPers like me. I have a medium downswing arc, and when hitting off the mat I probably get a little skip "help" if the shot is a tad fat. Off the turf, fat is fat.

[iacas]

Are all these values calculated? Specifically, the carry yds, height and landing angle?

They're measured. Only face angle, dynamic loft, etc. are calculated.

[newtogolf]

Right-Plus with a good player the ball is gone before the club really even interacts with grass / mat.

That explains it, I'm not a good player.

[Golfingdad]

Gonna take a wild guess here: Pain or discomfort.

Hitting the mats too hard or too steeply hurts, and people are subconsciously, or consciously, avoiding that by "sweeping" more on the mats.

If not that, then I'm guessing that it's the reaction of the mats on slightly fat shots.  (Actually, forget my original guess, let's skip straight to this one (I'll leave it there as a hedge, though, on the off chance that its right ;))  With grass, the club will keep going down through the turf, but with mats the club will bounce up off the concrete.

[Valleygolfer]

Maybe golfers unknowingly sweep at the ball on a mat? I know I don't go after it as much on a mat.

[nevets88]

The mat shot went further, didn't seem to curve at all, launched higher and spun less.

The grass shot, face was open to the path, so it should have faded? But it landed ~13 ft left of the mat shot.

Perhaps the grass shot - hit towards the toe a bit?

Even though ball speed was faster for grass compared to mat, more club head speed.

It would be nice to see the ball marks off the club for each shot.

[Lihu]

Mats seem to create more bounce. I know I hit farther and higher on mats than on the course, I chalked it up to being dialed in. The other thing is that mats hurt the wrists. I put my home mat on pea gravel to absorb some of the shock.

Glad to get some confirmation with what I have been feeling.

[Ernest Jones]

Mats seem to create more bounce.

Yeah, but that shouldn't be relevant. Like Phil said, the club strikes the ball on it's way to the turf/mat, I am, of course, assuming these aren't mishits (after all, we are talking about >180y 7 irons.)

I'm going to tweak the 2nd part of my original response.

I suck at understanding all that trackman voodoo stuff, but I would guess that most players swing a little more aggressively on grass as they know sub-consciously that there isn't a slab of concrete under the grass, hence the higher club head speed and deeper AoA.

As for the extra height and distance from the mat, would it be due to different spin values caused by the difference in "club-turf" interaction?  club head speed and AoA.

In other words...I suck at understanding all that trackman voodoo stuff and have no idea...but I'm interested in knowing the theory.

I maintain that I don't really grasp trackman data and how to interpret it, not sure I need to, but it's fascinating none-the-less.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Mats seem to create more bounce.

Yeah, but that shouldn't be relevant. Like Phil said, the club strikes the ball on it's way to the turf/mat, I am, of course, assuming these aren't mishits (after all, we are talking about >180y 7 irons.)

Yeah, I read the first post, then posted my response based upon what I thought rather than reading everything first. Haven't really given it much thought, except that I don't really feel that hitting off mats is going to be anything more than a swing workout.

Still, I kind of wonder what causes my shots off a mat to go higher than those off grass. On top of that, my feeling is that I think I do swing faster off grass too. Just a gut feeling, no concrete data.

[nevets88]

The spin axis number sticks out. -0.9 means it drew. If it hit towards the toe that means more draw and lost distance.