I do not understand adjustable drivers

[AbsoluteTruths]

I thought that opening and closing the face of a club is a function of the preset you do when you grip the club.

On my driver Taylormade Rocketballz Stage 2 it says that if you adjust the loft up or down it changes

the face to open or closed. I do not get it. Even if the adjustment changes the face couldn't you just

put it back to square or whatever when you grip it?

I know that a lot of other things affect the face during the swing but I am just asking about the setup.

[mvmac]

I thought that opening and closing the face of a club is a function of the preset you do when you grip the club.

On my driver Taylormade Rocketballz Stage 2 it says that if you adjust the loft up or down it changes

the face to open or closed. I do not get it. Even if the adjustment changes the face couldn't you just

put it back to square or whatever when you grip it?

I know that a lot of other things affect the face during the swing but I am just asking about the setup.

For adjustable drivers, adding more loft aims the face a little left, taking loft off aims the face a little right. Yes you could just rotate the club and then grip it to have a "square" face.

Don't worry too much about having the face perfectly square or aimed at the target. Face primarily determines start line so if you fade it, aim the face on your start line, which would be left of the target, opposite for a draw.

[saevel25]

I thought that opening and closing the face of a club is a function of the preset you do when you grip the club.

On my driver Taylormade Rocketballz Stage 2 it says that if you adjust the loft up or down it changes

the face to open or closed. I do not get it. Even if the adjustment changes the face couldn't you just

put it back to square or whatever when you grip it?

I know that a lot of other things affect the face during the swing but I am just asking about the setup.

You could, but the lie angle would still be changed. Some drivers just open and close the face. So you could negate that by the set up. Some change loft and lie independently. So rotating it back to square will not give you your exact same set up.

[RayG]

I think the adjustable faces and such are for those who want a quick fix to their swings. If you grip the club as NORMAL down the center line of the grip, having the face open a bit would cut down on that draw/hook and vice versa if you close it against your natural fade/slice. Now- having said that. Probably are good players who hit it straight that will use the angle to CREATE the flight they want without making any changes to their swing. But whay do we need all this high tech mumbo jumbo, anyway? We all KNOW that a new driver is the greatest thing ever since sliced bread and can do no wrong... until the next year when it's the NEWEST driver that is the greatest.

[saevel25]

I think the adjustable faces and such are for those who want a quick fix to their swings. If you grip the club as NORMAL down the center line of the grip, having the face open a bit would cut down on that draw/hook and vice versa if you close it against your natural fade/slice.

It is more for fitting purposes. You can can only get so close to optimal, then you can adjust lie and loft and really get dialed in. Adjustable drivers will not have a substantial effect to the point it will mask a swing fault.

[Slice of Life]

Guarantee I can slice any driver you hand me, regardless of how you adjust the face.

$100 on the line...any takers?

[bste]

It is more for fitting purposes. You can can only get so close to optimal, then you can adjust lie and loft and really get dialed in. Adjustable drivers will not have a substantial effect to the point it will mask a swing fault.

Guarantee I can slice any driver you hand me, regardless of how you adjust the face.

$100 on the line...any takers?

I thought a driver with separate loft and face angle, you could change the loft without affecting the face angle?

[RayG]

It is more for fitting purposes. You can can only get so close to optimal, then you can adjust lie and loft and really get dialed in. Adjustable drivers will not have a substantial effect to the point it will mask a swing fault.

I agree... BUT- Average Joe in the street doesn't GET a fitting. "Hey! I can adjust to extreme draw to get rid of my slice AND get another 50 yards.. Let me plunk down $400 bucks and start shooting 80" That's what HE sees with that. Gets all bummed when he hits it 50 yards further... to the right.

[saevel25]

I thought a driver with separate loft and face angle, you could change the loft without affecting the face angle?

Sure, I don't see why not. That doesn't change the fact you are only changing loft and that wouldn't significantly impact much. You might lower loft, take 500 RPM's off and lower the launch angle by that many degrees. That might gain you a bit more distance if your launch conditions were a bit too spiny. In the end you can still hit a bad shot that overshadows any minor adjustment that a driver can give you by changing the loft or lie angle.

[bste]

Sure, I don't see why not. That doesn't change the fact you are only changing loft and that wouldn't significantly impact much. You might lower loft, take 500 RPM's off and lower the launch angle by that many degrees. That might gain you a bit more distance if your launch conditions were a bit too spiny. In the end you can still hit a bad shot that overshadows any minor adjustment that a driver can give you by changing the loft or lie angle.

Wait a minute. I thought you raised the loft angle to reduce spin axis, increase height and distance?

[Golfingdad]

I thought that opening and closing the face of a club is a function of the preset you do when you grip the club.

On my driver Taylormade Rocketballz Stage 2 it says that if you adjust the loft up or down it changes

the face to open or closed. I do not get it. Even if the adjustment changes the face couldn't you just

put it back to square or whatever when you grip it?

I know that a lot of other things affect the face during the swing but I am just asking about the setup.

LOL.  I'm am not the only one.  Check it out: http://thesandtrap.com/t/56112/tunable-drivers-with-adjustable-face-angle-huh/0_30

I'm totally with you.  Unless you aim the club by resting it on the ground, then you're always pointing the face ... wherever you want to point the face.

[GolfLug]

LOL.  I'm am not the only one.  Check it out: http://thesandtrap.com/t/56112/tunable-drivers-with-adjustable-face-angle-huh/0_30

I'm totally with you.  Unless you aim the club by resting it on the ground, then you're always pointing the face ... wherever you want to point the face.

Check this out. How about this clown pointing the face downwards? No amount of face adjustment can rescue this disaster.

[saevel25]

Wait a minute. I thought you raised the loft angle to reduce spin axis, increase height and distance?

Umm, no. Adding loft adds to the spin loft, if you keep everything else the same. This is why wedges spin more than 4 irons.

If you want to increase launch angle and lower spin. You either have to move the CG lower and forward which lowers spin, but also lowers launch angle. This is why TM did the loft up campaign. They found you can get extremely low spin with a forward and low CG. They needed to increase launch angle. Which did increase spin, but not to the point that it offset the CG location. So you got a good middle ground with launch angle increase and spin reduction.

Note, loft is not the only factor to spin rate and launch angle.

Check this out. How about this clown pointing the face downwards? No amount of face adjustment can rescue this disaster.

When I saw that, I literally did a double take.

[bste]

Umm, no. Adding loft adds to the spin loft, if you keep everything else the same. This is why wedges spin more than 4 irons.

If you want to increase launch angle and lower spin. You either have to move the CG lower and forward which lowers spin, but also lowers launch angle. This is why TM did the loft up campaign. They found you can get extremely low spin with a forward and low CG. They needed to increase launch angle. Which did increase spin, but not to the point that it offset the CG location. So you got a good middle ground with launch angle increase and spin reduction.

Note, loft is not the only factor to spin rate and launch angle.

Thanks, always learn something new here.

[GolfLug]

When I saw that, I literally did a double take.

I put this up for the obvious shock value. Couldn't resist. But really the point was you don't have to point face square as an absolute rule. I am assuming even accomplished players (in my book, low single digit HC or better) have variance in how they point at address. I guess functional value of face adjustment manifests mostly at impact.

[Golfingdad]

I put this up for the obvious shock value. Couldn't resist. But really the point was you don't have to point face square as an absolute rule.

Of course you don't.  Nobody is suggesting you do.  What we're suggesting is that spinning the clubhead around the hosel isn't going to have any bearing on how you choose to point the clubface either, so it's a silly marketing ploy, basically.

[DrvFrShow]

Guarantee I can slice any driver you hand me, regardless of how you adjust the face.

$100 on the line...any takers?

Been there. Neighbor showed me his draw bias driver. We went to the range. "You can't slice this thing." I promptly hit a banana ball high, over the fence out of play. "Maybe I need to hit a couple more," I said, and hit a decent drive next time. It's how much you cup the left wrist at the top of the back swing. If you cup it, you've got the banana.

[GolfLug]

Of course you don't.  Nobody is suggesting you do.  What we're suggesting is that spinning the clubhead around the hosel isn't going to have any bearing on how you choose to point the clubface either, so it's a silly marketing ploy, basically.

Yes, I know you weren't suggesting. Was just agreeing with your post and giving my own example to further it.

BTW, I am going to read up on what happens when you 'close' or 'open' the face as advertised. I doubt if it is just spinning it around the hosel. That would just rotate the shaft around its own axis and at best relocate the logos - I would think only the easily gullible would actually believe that the face angle changed if so. Really, I thought it changed the lie angle effectively make it play open (lie down) or close (lie up). But I will read up and comment.

V