Tour slow play and laser range finders

[cliffj]

Am I the only one who would like to see the Tour experiment with allowing caddies to use range finders, etc for a tournament to see if it would speed things up. I think with all the walking off of distances etc they get within a yard anyway. Why not allow them to get the distance quickly and get on with it. I don't see that any advantage would be gained by the range finder user.

[boogielicious]

Agreed.  It would speed up play in my opinion.

[David in FL]

I don't think the slow play comes from the step of determining actual distance, but more in deciding how to actually approach the shot itself. I really don't think we'd see a significant improvement in their pace of play.

[billchao]

They laser everything they need to before the tournament rounds, correct? I doubt a professional caddie with a yardage book has a tough time figuring out yardages unless they're in some random spot on the course they never expected to be in. I agree with @David in FL , the slow play comes from actually deciding what to do with the shot. A lot of times they're looking to land it in places you'd have a hard time hitting with a laser anyway.

[boogielicious]

They laser everything they need to before the tournament rounds, correct? I doubt a professional caddie with a yardage book has a tough time figuring out yardages unless they're in some random spot on the course they never expected to be in.

I agree with @David in FL, the slow play comes from actually deciding what to do with the shot. A lot of times they're looking to land it in places you'd have a hard time hitting with a laser anyway.

I've seen many instances of the caddie walking off the distance all the way to the green on non-typical shots.  I think it would help a little bit at least.

[colin007]

i think it would help as well.  and besides, theyre already allowed to laser prior to a tournament round, so why not during?

[saevel25]

I've seen many instances of the caddie walking off the distance all the way to the green on non-typical shots.  I think it would help a little bit at least.

I'd agree in that instance it would help.

At least from watching some PGA Tour events in person. I find that the golfer is probably taking into account the other conditions as the caddy is measuring off the yardage. I am not sure exactly how much time it will help out with on normal shots. I do think in some cases though it could speed things up a lot.

So I am in favor of them allowing them.

[billchao]

I've seen many instances of the caddie walking off the distance all the way to the green on non-typical shots.  I think it would help a little bit at least.

Does that happen often, that it's a significant factor, or is it because they take a long time on every shot and it adds up? I'm sure it slows things down when it happens, but I'm curious as to how often it does actually happen. It's no different than the pace of play issue on public courses. Spending five minutes to look for a lost golf ball slows things down for sure, but a group that keeps good pace can close the gap that they created as the round goes on. Someone spending an extra 30 seconds or longer every shot is hard to make up for.

[tristanhilton85]

I'm not sure if it would help the pace of play or not. However, I still would allow them to use it; I don't see it hurting the pace and only stands to give them the same information quicker. If there are downsides to letting them use them (and I'm not saying there aren't any) I don't know what they are.

[phan52]

I don't think the slow play comes from the step of determining actual distance, but more in deciding how to actually approach the shot itself. I really don't think we'd see a significant improvement in their pace of play.

This. They know their yardages almost immediately. They end up discussing other factors like wind, elevation changes and pin placement.

[Patch]

I don't know if they actually need a range finder, but I would not have any problem with them using one. I have had the opportunity to actually see a some of the yardage books some of the pros use. There is so much yardage (and other) info in them, that a range finder would be superfluous. Perhaps the newer pro would would get some use out of one for courses they have not played. Most of the established players already know most of the courses, much like the a weekend player knows their own home course.

I do know quite a few professionals, and their caddies do in fact use range finders prior to their competitive rounds, and that info is copied into their yardage books. I have seen them do it. So, in that respect, they are already using the technology.

I think what slows down the professionals is the simple fact they are out there working for a pay check. Like anyone else, the better their work is, the bigger their pay check will eventually be. There is a lot more to work at, and decide on, than just yardages. Some of them just take longer to make decisions on what they think is relevant to the shot at hand.

I don't really care how long the professionals take to play. When televised, it's usually on TV for 3-4 hours (except majors), and out of all of that time I might only watch 30-45 minutes of the show. I like to play the game, not watch it.

[ay33660]

My question is why not?

What is the issue with letting a Pro use a laser rangefinder?

Whether they use a caddy and yardage book or laser rangefinder they still have to execute the shot.

In some ways I think this use of the rangefinder is backward.

It is the high handicappers that should not use one.

What are the odds that a high handicapper like me would actually hit the target yardage? Certainly less than 30% of the time for me.

[saevel25]

My question is why not?

What is the issue with letting a Pro use a laser rangefinder?

Whether they use a caddy and yardage book or laser rangefinder they still have to execute the shot.

In some ways I think this use of the rangefinder is backward.

It is the high handicappers that should not use one.

What are the odds that a high handicapper like me would actually hit the target yardage? Certainly less than 30% of the time for me.

What is the odds of you hitting the yardage with out an accurate yardage to base your club selection off of in the first place. The outcome of the shot doesn't not change the fact that you are better off knowing the yardage than not knowing the yardage.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ay33660

My question is why not?

What is the issue with letting a Pro use a laser rangefinder?

Whether they use a caddy and yardage book or laser rangefinder they still have to execute the shot.

In some ways I think this use of the rangefinder is backward.

It is the high handicappers that should not use one.

What are the odds that a high handicapper like me would actually hit the target yardage? Certainly less than 30% of the time for me.

I think it is helpful to amateurs if they are interested in scoring and course management. Using yardage markers on sprinkler heads gets you the number to the middle of the green, but the rangefinder will tell you if the pin is up or back which is pretty important to anybody for scoring.

Pro's will still use their yardage books more for pin placement than anything else, so they will never speed up their play because of a rangefinder.

[Golfingdad]

I don't think the slow play comes from the step of determining actual distance, but more in deciding how to actually approach the shot itself. I really don't think we'd see a significant improvement in their pace of play.

This. They know their yardages almost immediately. They end up discussing other factors like wind, elevation changes and pin placement.

I'm in this camp.  I have absolutely no problems with them being allowed, but I HIGHLY doubt that it would speed up play that much.* Like both Phan and David said, they don't spend much time pacing, they spend all of their time strategizing.  They'd still have to break out the yardage book and do all of the math they require to get the specific numbers they need to the front edge of the green, the back edge, the carry over the bunker, the distance from the pin to the side of the green, the distance to the ridge in the middle of the green.  All of that info comes after they have their number to the pin (or front edge) and none of that stuff can be accurately shot with a laser.

* However, they still have a few seconds on each shot where they have to find a sprinkler and pace a few yards.  Even if they only saved a handful of seconds on each shot, maybe it could add up to a few minutes over the course of a round, and every little bit helps, right?

On the other hand, if I was playing devils advocate, I'd suggest that the laser would only be used as extra validation of the numbers they already got.  Meaning that they'd likely still want their caddy to pace it to be extra sure.  And then add to that the EXTRA time it would take when they occasionally got a DIFFERENT number with the laser than with the pacing.  No way would those guys, as meticulous and deliberate as they are, settle for trusting one over the other without putting in a little extra time for verification.

I could easily see the idea backfiring and ADDING time to their rounds as well.  But I'd say that it's at least worth an experiment!  They could always stop the experiment if it turned out it didn't help any.

[colin007]

Pro's will still use their yardage books more for pin placement than anything else, so they will never speed up their play because of a rangefinder.

why on earth would someone use a yardage book instead of just shooting the pin and getting their exact distance?

[Golfingdad]

why on earth would someone use a yardage book instead of just shooting the pin and getting their exact distance?

Shooting the flag tells only gives you one random number in space.  But you also need to know WHERE in space that pin is.  If golf was like basketball or football with specific requirements about field size and shape, then sure, all they'd need is that one number - if the green was always a 20 yard diameter circle with the pin always dead center.  But that is never the case.

The number to the pin is only one of several necessary.  Next thing they need to know is where they are going to land the ball.  Is there a backstop behind the pin that I can spin it off of?  Is there a sideslope that's going to send it left or right?  If so, how many paces between the pin and those features?  Are they greens that are hard to hold?  If so, how much room do I have from the front of the green to the pin.  Where can I land it?  Do I even want to aim at the pin?  How far from the edge of the green is it?  How far from that edge to the lip of that bunker?

Rest assured that it doesn't take those guys that long to get their exact distance.  But they want more than that.

[turtleback]

I've seen many instances of the caddie walking off the distance all the way to the green on non-typical shots.  I think it would help a little bit at least.

The number to the pin is only one of several necessary.  Next thing they need to know is where they are going to land the ball.  Is there a backstop behind the pin that I can spin it off of?  Is there a sideslope that's going to send it left or right?  If so, how many paces between the pin and those features?  Are they greens that are hard to hold?  If so, how much room do I have from the front of the green to the pin.  Where can I land it?  Do I even want to aim at the pin?  How far from the edge of the green is it?  How far from that edge to the lip of that bunker?

I think Golfingdad's explanation of why they might walk up to the green is more likely than they are just trying to get the distance.  Unless they are off in some other fairway or some crazy place they never anticipated, they have the distance.  And if he IS getting a distance it is to a landing spot - something that cannot be shot with a laser.

But I would oppose it in any case as it would increase the use of lasers among amateurs and that could end up hurting the pace of play of the guys in front of me - and they are the ones that matter to me.