par-five play...

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrvFrShow

Par 5 468... that'd be a par 4 for you guys. If I crush my drive, get lucky and also put it in the fairway and get a good roll on a hot day with the wind to my back (240), that leaves me with 228. There's no way I'm reaching it in 2. I'm hitting a 4H for my second shot (175-180) to make sure I'm in a good position for my approach. That will leave me a 50 yd lob wedge. That 50 yd shot I can put on the green and putt for birdie.

Par 5 410... again a par 4 for you guys. If I hit a normal drive 210 carry with a 15 yd roll to 225. That'll leave me 185. I might play my 3H and play the ball back and hit a draw. IME the ball won't roll as much and if the shot is accurate I could be on in 2. If not, I'm chipping my third shot.

The 468 yard par 4, I have played a 467-yard, par-5 though it was uphill...

Most par-fives that I hit a good enough drive, I won't necessarily lay-up, nor go for the green...

It depends on what club I would need to reach the green... 500 or so... that means with a good drive I'd have to hit a FW to the green, I don't have a ton of confidence in my Fairway Woods, So if there isn't any penal trouble around the green or a forced carry of over 200, I'll hit maybe a hybrid or 4-iron and give myself a 30-yard pitch or so...

If I have about 215 to 220 in I will absolutely go for it...

Trouble around the green, 8-iron all the way...

I haven't read LSW, but I do plan on getting a copy soon...

Is there a such thing as "sort-of laying-up" to leave a pitch or chip for your next shot, Erik?

This sounds like a near green or near*** near green?

***"near near green" I just made this up.

[onthehunt526]

A really long par 4.

The 18th at Newman is 450 yards on a 70° F day that's a drive and a 4-iron for me... I don't really want to think about having to hit a FW or HYBRID to a par-4

[onthehunt526]

This sounds like a near green or near*** near green? ***"near near green" I just made this up.

Basically I have the ability to reach the green, but I'd rather hit a slightly higher percentage shot while still trying to get close in two

[Lihu]

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/79906/par-five-play#post_1103554"] This sounds like a near green or near*** near green? ***"near near green" I just made this up.

Basically I have the ability to reach the green, but I'd rather hit a slightly higher percentage shot while still trying to get close in two[/quote] That's getting back to the egg thing Erik stated earlier. . .

[saevel25]

Trouble around the green, 8-iron all the way...

I haven't read LSW, but I do plan on getting a copy soon...

Is there a such thing as "sort-of laying-up" to leave a pitch or chip for your next shot, Erik?

If there was trouble around the green, I would determine the closest I could get to the trouble leaving me the shortest possible shot.

Still in some cases, like if the green is surrounded by bunkers, it might be worth going for the green. Depending on how good you are from the bunker.

Basically, how close can you get the ball to the hole from the bunker compared to different distances short of the bunkers if you lay up. If just short of the bunker is equal to being in the bunker then I would take a shot at the green because being near the green or on the green is worth the risk even if I was to end up in the bunker.

In most cases go for the green in two, but making sure that the miss is away from the trouble if there is some. Pin high in the rough 10 yards right of the green is better than 100 yards out laying up even if their is water guarding the left side of the green.

If you are concerned about accuracy on a full 3-wood shot. Then hit a chippy 3-wood for control, and you'd probably still end up closer than laying up with an iron.

[billchao]

@onthehunt526 , you should get [i]Lowest Score Wins[/i]. This is covered in the book. Just to share my point of view, there are only two holes that I can think of, out of the courses I regularly play, where I would lay up instead of going for the green despite being able to reach it. One hole has a huge pond guarding the right half of the green. The other is a small elevated green flanked by bunkers. In those situations, I'm not laying up to a full club distance. I'm getting as close as possible while keeping the hazards out of play. I guess that would qualify as laying up to leave a chip/pitch as the next shot.

[rkim291968]

I go for it more than I should.   But in tournament play, I lay up most of the time.

[Holdaway03]

Depends where my driver lands. If I have straight shot to the green then I'll try to run a 3W up. If I'm hitting over anything or there are hazards in from or to the right (I fight a slice fade) then I'll hit my 22° hybrid and get loft to lay in middle of fairway to about 90-120 yards out for a PW.

[Big C]

Simple question really aside from distance into the green...

Let's say you hit a really good drive on a par-five and are close enough to be able to reach the green in two shots....

We all play different courses and have different conditions...

So in what situations would you go for the green? What situations would make you lay-up?

Simple reply to your question. If I could reach the green on the fly with my 3 hybrid or less, I would go for it almost every time, irrespective of water hazards, sand traps, etc. This is typically 225 yards and in. If I have to use my 3 wood to get there (typically 225 and above), the decision would depend on where the hazards were located. I would probably go for the green about 40-50% of the time and lay up to the closest "safe" distance otherwise.

About the only thing that could change the calculus for me would be OB stakes or a fence that closely bordered the hole. If I felt there was a realistic chance of going OB, I would be much more likely to lay up.

[Golfingdad]

So in what situations would you go for the green?

Any time the shot is relatively safe.  I played nine holes yesterday and both par 5's left me with 245-255 or so for my second shot.  There are lateral hazards up both sides of both holes, but it's not particularly narrow, especially at the green.  A swing bad enough to put me in trouble with the 3-wood is likely also putting me in trouble with a 6 or 7 iron, so might as well get closer to the green.  (Worked out yesterday too - had a two-putt birdie on one and a tap in par on the other)

What situations would make you lay-up?

Anything involving a forced carry of over 200 yards at this point in my game is probably causing me to lay up.  Also, as @Big C mentioned above, anytime OB or hazard gets really close to the green.  Otherwise, I'm probably taking the most club I have and getting it as close to the green as I can every time.

[oregongolfguy]

I Now live by a pretty simple mantra on Par 5's.....and golf in general.  I am going to advance the ball as far as I can on every shot while keeping trouble out of play as much as possible.....

As an example the 3 par 5's on the course I used to play a lot.....First one the green slopes severly back to front.  No real close trouble per say except that I don't want to be long of the green, or above the hole if possible.  Its also very short.  So its basically always a green light special, I just want to error on the side of short rather then long.  Almost impossible to get up and down from behind, but from front edge or close to front edge its a straight forward pitch/chip that I can be aggressive with.

2nd Par 5 is again short(its a short course).  Your teeing off through a small canyon of sorts.  the fairway kinda angles slightly right off the tee then makes a turn left then straight out again...kind of a funky shape.  optimum position is left center of the fairway, but miss it left and you bring trees and the hillside into play.  And its a blind shot going that direction.  So if I'm feeling really on I might take it on, otherwise its down the middle which ends up being more right side of fairway.  The problem with this is there is a grove of tall pine trees that guard that side of the green, and a bunker short and left.  I haven't had a lot of luck going over these tree's.  more often or not I clip one, ball falls down and I have a nasty shot from there.  So I now play for the front left edge.  The green itself is very benign.  And the bunker is shallow and easy to play out of if I go too far left.  But for me usually this is a lay up, but I am laying up to front edge, not way back.  This one drives me nuts because its the shortest par 5 on the course also.

3rd Par 5 is wide open off the tee box.  Its a dogleg right on the second shot, but I play up the right off the tee then carry the dogleg with my second shot.  Only trouble is about 20yds long of the green there is OB.  Rest is open, no bunkers, pretty flat green.  Green light special pretty much every time unless my drive was not good and I can't carry the waste area....

Personally I never lay up to a yardage.  I have found that I am better off the closer I get.  I almost never miss the green from inside of 50yds as long as I have some kind of half decent lie.  Even if I flub it a bit I will be putting on my next shot.  After reading a lot on this forum I began testing out some of the thoughts for myself on the course, and it has made a big difference in my scoring.

[onthehunt526]

So simply put, so trying to get as close as you can is probably the best idea on par-five holes? I know I'm not going to try to hit Driver (especially with these 460cc drivers) off the deck on a 580-yard hole with 300 in... lol

[vangator]

Exactly, like rolling dice for us. 3W is a really hard club to master. Probably as hard as a 4i or 3i. 3i might be a little harder? I don't really know either. :whistle:

I think the secret to the 3W is not to play it too far forward. Hit it with a slightly descending blow. If you're topping it, it's probably too far forward and maybe you're trying to sweep it too much. And keep your head still!

[onthehunt526]

Update: How would you guys/girls play super long par-fives? That can be any length, from Julia's 468-yard hole, to one that is 650 its all relative... the par-fives you know you have no way in hell to reach in two... does the LSW mantra still get as close as you can...

[Golfingdad]

Update: How would you guys/girls play super long par-fives? That can be any length, from Julia's 468-yard hole, to one that is 650 its all relative... the par-fives you know you have no way in hell to reach in two... does the LSW mantra still get as close as you can...

Yup.

[Shindig]

Update: How would you guys/girls play super long par-fives? That can be any length, from Julia's 468-yard hole, to one that is 650 its all relative... the par-fives you know you have no way in hell to reach in two... does the LSW mantra still get as close as you can...

It's not so much the LSW mantra so much as good course management. What would the alternate be? Driver, 3Wood, ... and then whatever's left of the hole.

[alleztom]

Quote:

Update: How would you guys/girls play super long par-fives? That can be any length, from Julia's 468-yard hole, to one that is 650 its all relative... the par-fives you know you have no way in hell to reach in two... does the LSW mantra still get as close as you can...

As close as is safe. For example if I hit my 2h 225 yards and I'm 215 yards from trouble I'll take a shorter club and leave myself as short an approach as possible.

[onthehunt526]

I don't know what it is, but it seems to me that the very long par-five holes seem to not have the big trouble on the drive or the second shot, it's mostly the third shot (11th at Colonial has Fairway Bunkers as does 5 at Southern Hills, 16 at Firestone the hazard guards the green), Most of the very long par-5s I've played the length was the only protection, so back in the day when the heads of the drivers were smaller... if I was inside of 300 yards, I would hit Driver off the fairway and try to get as close as I could in two... if I hit it in a bunker, I was a good enough bunker player that I could make birdie about half the time(before my accident) now anything longer than about 550 I have trouble reaching in two, but I still will try to get as close as possible if the hole allows it... Don't know what the hell I would do on those 2 huge fives at Pine Valley... maybe play from the white tees...