The 2015 Newport Cup

[Abu3baid]

  Club Rat said:

The first four matches will be team play, best ball in am. alternate shot in the afternoon. Best ball will most likely be full handicap. Alternate Shot is usually 80% with combined total hdcp divided in half. It's total up to the Captain's to determine teammates and matchup individuals on the final day. Typically, Individual matches should be full hdcp, unless it's a large field, then players are flight'd. Since the NPC is a limited field (6 per team) the players were required to have a handicap less than 10. Hope I've explained the possibilities, there may be other options. Club Rat

So, would it never be an option to have them play straight up? No strokes? With the HC requirement being like a minimum req sort of thing?

[Club Rat]

  Abu3baid said:

So, would it never be an option to have them play straight up? No strokes?

With the HC requirement being like a minimum req sort of thing?

I've played in club versus other clubs and Head Pro's would play each other, also assistant pros will play.

When they elect to turn Pro, they would play scratch.

Amateur's generally are handicapped, unless a player chooses to play in an Open event division.

Situations like State Amateur, Mid-Am's, Local USGA events, etch.

Then everyone plays scratch.

[DaveP043]

I'm not sure we've heard from @iacas and @mvmac what the handicap arrangements will be.  I'd assume if handicaps are used, we'd stroke off the low handicap in the match for fourballs and singles.  For foursomes, the handicap is generally taken to be the average of the pair, and strokes taken off the lower-handicap team.  The USGA doesn't suggest a reduction in handicap in  any of the match formats we're playing.  You can look at Section 9-4.a of the Rules of Golf for reference.

As mentioned, its possible that we'll play all the matches at scratch, but that decision is up to the team captains.

[Abu3baid]

  Club Rat said:

I've played in club versus other clubs and Head Pro's would play each other, also assistant pros will play. When they elect to turn Pro, they would play scratch. Amateur's generally are handicapped, unless a player chooses to play in an Open event division. Situations like State Amateur, Mid-Am's, Local USGA events, etch. Then everyone plays scratch.

[quote name="DaveP043" url="/t/80658/the-2015-newport-cup/300_10#post_1186046"]I'm not sure we've heard from @iacas and @mvmac what the handicap arrangements will be.  I'd assume if handicaps are used, we'd stroke off the low handicap in the match for fourballs and singles.  For foursomes, the handicap is generally taken to be the average of the pair, and strokes taken off the lower-handicap team.  The USGA doesn't suggest a reduction in handicap in  any of the match formats we're playing.  You can look at Section 9-4.a of the Rules of Golf for reference.   As mentioned, its possible that we'll play all the matches at scratch, but that decision is up to the team captains. [/quote] Interesting stuff guys.. Thanks!

[iacas]

I think…

• Fourballs will be based off the lowest handicap player playing off scratch and everyone else based on that.
• Foursomes will be based on 50% of the difference between the team's added handicap.
• Singles will be based off the lower handicap player at scratch.

We'll probably do 80% handicaps for the fourball. I have to look into it a bit more, but I know that the best ball of 10 scratch players versus the best ball of 10 18 handicappers will result in the 18 handicappers winning more often than the scratch golfers.

[DaveP043]

When I got the invitation to play in this, I knew I'd need to be travelling on September 8, and something nagged at the back of my brain about that date.  I finally figured it out.  That's my 31st wedding anniversary! Ah well, I'll just have some making up to do, both before I leave and after I get home.  Anyone know how the selection of ladies apparel is in Moon Valley's pro shop?

[GolfLug]

  DaveP043 said:

When I got the invitation to play in this, I knew I'd need to be travelling on September 8, and something nagged at the back of my brain about that date.  I finally figured it out.  That's my 31st wedding anniversary!   Ah well, I'll just have some making up to do, both before I leave and after I get home.  Anyone know how the selection of ladies apparel is in Moon Valley's pro shop?

If I remember right from your post somewhere, didn't your wife literally convince you to go or told you to go without even a second thought whatsoever or something?... So there, it's her fault .

But I know you will still forgive her and buy something to her liking because, you know, you are simply championship level husband material.

[DaveP043]

  GolfLug said:

If I remember right from your post somewhere, didn't your wife literally convince you to go or told you to go without even a second thought whatsoever or something?... So there, it's her fault .

But I know you will still forgive her and buy something to her liking because, you know, you are simply championship level husband material.

Can I use you as a character reference?  My wife certainly did encourage me right from the start, and I know I won't get any real heat over this, but I'll certainly take some needling.  I honestly didn't connect the date to my anniversary until yesterday, and she's never said a word about it to me.  A long time ago we agreed that we'd celebrate occasions when it was convenient to us, and that the celebration itself was a lot more important than the actual date.  The one date that I plan on having a celebration is Saturday, September 12.

[DaveP043]

  iacas said:

I think…

Fourballs will be based off the lowest handicap player playing off scratch and everyone else based on that.

Foursomes will be based on 50% of the difference between the team's added handicap.

Singles will be based off the lower handicap player at scratch.

We'll probably do 80% handicaps for the fourball. I have to look into it a bit more, but I know that the best ball of 10 scratch players versus the best ball of 10 18 handicappers will result in the 18 handicappers winning more often than the scratch golfers.

Just a quick reference, because work is slow and I have time to kill.  This is paraphrasing from the USGA Handicap Manual. Section 9-4.a.ii suggests that for Fourball Match play, the full handicap be used, and the strokes should be taken off the low ball.  Section 9-4.b.ii suggests that for Fourball Stroke Play, 90% of the handicap for each player should be used.  An additional 10% reduction is suggested for a team with greater than 8 strokes difference between the partners.

[GolfLug]

  DaveP043 said:

Can I use you as a character reference?

Sure, but after Sept 12th.

  DaveP043 said:

The one date that I plan on having a celebration is Saturday, September 12.

[iacas]

  DaveP043 said:

Just a quick reference, because work is slow and I have time to kill.  This is paraphrasing from the USGA Handicap Manual. Section 9-4.a.ii suggests that for Fourball Match play, the full handicap be used, and the strokes should be taken off the low ball.  Section 9-4.b.ii suggests that for Fourball Stroke Play, 90% of the handicap for each player should be used.  An additional 10% reduction is suggested for a team with greater than 8 strokes difference between the partners.

I know that. But I also know that higher handicappers tend to have a slight advantage when they are using multiple balls. As I said above the best ball of 10 bogey golfers will almost always beat the best ball of 10 scratch golfers. The USGA doesn't think so but you can demonstrate it mathematically. Scratch golfers make a lot of pars while bogey golfers make a lot of different types of scores. When I played against some bad golfers in a little traveling league I would often have to make eagle just to wash out the skin from some guy in my own group. Nothing is decided yet and the 80% thing might not even change things. Maybe one stroke occasionally and only when playing the lowest handicapper.

[saevel25]

  iacas said:

I know that. But I also know that higher handicappers tend to have a slight advantage when they are using multiple balls.

As I said above the best ball of 10 bogey golfers will almost always beat the best ball of 10 scratch golfers. The USGA doesn't think so but you can demonstrate it mathematically. Scratch golfers make a lot of pars while bogey golfers make a lot of different types of scores. When I played against some bad golfers in a little traveling league I would often have to make eagle just to wash out the skin from some guy in my own group.

That is my experience with skins matches. I looked back through a few years of some league results and it was always the bogey golfers who would end up getting the skins. Rarely would a birdie hold up for a low handicap golfer.

Lets say on a 400 yard hole,

I would expect a bogey golfer to have a better chance of getting up and down for par from 40 yards out with his third shot than a scratch golfer getting birdie from 140 yards out from his 2nd shot.

[DaveP043]

  iacas said:

I know that. But I also know that higher handicappers tend to have a slight advantage when they are using multiple balls.

As I said above the best ball of 10 bogey golfers will almost always beat the best ball of 10 scratch golfers. The USGA doesn't think so but you can demonstrate it mathematically. Scratch golfers make a lot of pars while bogey golfers make a lot of different types of scores. When I played against some bad golfers in a little traveling league I would often have to make eagle just to wash out the skin from some guy in my own group.

Nothing is decided yet and the 80% thing might not even change things. Maybe one stroke occasionally and only when playing the lowest handicapper.

I'd be the first to agree that in a skins game the high handicappers have a significant edge.   At one time I looked at some scores in my group of friends, and it takes a reduction to something like 70% of handicap to approximately equalize the payouts.

I haven't checked the handicaps of all of the players, but I don't think the gaps are too big, so that using 80% might mean a reduction of one stroke in most cases, and no more than two.  I'll be ready to go, no matter what you decide.

[iacas]

  DaveP043 said:

I'd be the first to agree that in a skins game the high handicappers have a significant edge.   At one time I looked at some scores in my group of friends, and it takes a reduction to something like 70% of handicap to approximately equalize the payouts.   I haven't checked the handicaps of all of the players, but I don't think the gaps are too big, so that using 80% might mean a reduction of one stroke in most cases, and no more than two.  I'll be ready to go, no matter what you decide.

In most cases probably zero. Lots of very similar handicaps.

[Big C]

  iacas said:

In most cases probably zero. Lots of very similar handicaps.

At 80% handicaps, a 3 shot difference would be cut to 2. That 1 stroke reduction holds true until you get to an 8 shot differential (where 8 turns to 6). So yeah, the reductions will be minimal if there are any at all.

[Club Rat]

  DaveP043 said:

When I got the invitation to play in this, I knew I'd need to be travelling on September 8, and something nagged at the back of my brain about that date.  I finally figured it out.  That's my 31st wedding anniversary!

Anyone know how the selection of ladies apparel is in Moon Valley's pro shop?

Congrats and MV apparel = very, very expensive .....

Just might as well shop @ Vicky's Secret for something y ou'd enjoy when you get home....

[David in FL]

  mvmac said:

Yes strokes are involved.

Full course handicap, or a %?

What is the course length/CR/Slope from the tees you'll be playing?

[mvmac]

  David in FL said:

Full course handicap, or a %?

What is the course length/CR/Slope from the tees you'll be playing?

Moved your post here.

We'll have to see but we're thinking of doing a combo of Black/Blue tees. Tees might change with the format.

http://www.moonvalleycc.com/golf/scorecard#page/2

For the handicap stuff.....

  iacas said:

I think…

Fourballs will be based off the lowest handicap player playing off scratch and everyone else based on that.

Foursomes will be based on 50% of the difference between the team's added handicap.

Singles will be based off the lower handicap player at scratch.

We'll probably do 80% handicaps for the fourball. I have to look into it a bit more, but I know that the best ball of 10 scratch players versus the best ball of 10 18 handicappers will result in the 18 handicappers winning more often than the scratch golfers.

  iacas said:

Nothing is decided yet and the 80% thing might not even change things. Maybe one stroke occasionally and only when playing the lowest handicapper.