Question on "Grounds under repair" or something like that

[WatchOutLeft]

So I was recently visiting family out of state and played a round of golf with my brother. The course was very slow and we ended up having two other singles join us to make a foursome. It turned out that one of the guys worked at the course. I believe his job was organizing tournaments. Anyway on one hole we all tee off and myself and the guy who works at the course end up about 5 yards off the left side of the fairway on dirt. He says that this area is considered grounds under repair (or something like that) and that there is supposed to be grass here and we should move our balls to the grass. He says that whenever they have tournaments they tell everyone that they are allowed to take relief if they end up on hardpan, as there "isn't supposed to be any". So he picks up my ball and tosses it to me and picks up his ball and drops it on the fairway (the only grass in the area, other then the adjacent fairway which is about 20 yards further left and behind a row of trees). Since he already picked up my ball and I have no idea what he's talking about but figure he does, I drop my ball a couple yards further from the hole on the fairway.

Was this some kind of BS or is this an actual rule? I was playing captains choice with my brother for fun so it didn't go toward my handicap but it seemed kinda fishy to me. If there is in fact such a rule, does it apply to when you hit a shot right down the middle of the fairway and it ends up in a mudhole?

[isukgolf]

There are a lot more qualified folks then myself to answer the rules questions, but it sounds like to me the guy took some liberties. Most of the GUR I have encountered is clearly mark (since they want to keep golfers out), or there is a general notification ether on the score card, check in desk, or the starter.

[Shindig]

If there is ground that they don't want you to hit from, they can mark it as such; then you can take relief under the rules that apply to Ground Under Repair. However, if you got there and simply saw hardpan and decided "there shouldn't be any," you cannot just take relief from it.

[RayG]

What Shindig said.... HOWEVER- depending on the course- some would consider that the hard-pan that develops from carts using the same route, but not an "OFFICIAL" cart path, as not necessarily "GUR" but a de-facto cart path that would get relief.

[wadesworld]

In a tournament, Ground Under repair would be marked with white lines, white stakes, or both.  Technically, in a casual round, if it's not marked, you're not entitled to relief.

However, I've encountered situations where ground would clearly be marked as GUR if there were a tournament going on, so I have no problem with someone giving themselves relief in that situation. But it needs to be something out-of-the-ordinary. Just because there's a bare patch doesn't mean it would be GUR.

[ColinL]

What Shindig said.... HOWEVER- depending on the course- some would consider that the hard-pan that develops from carts using the same route, but not an "OFFICIAL" cart path, as not necessarily "GUR" but a de-facto cart path that would get relief.

Do you guys over there usually have a local rule defining earthen cart paths as GUR?  As we normally walk, it's not a common situation and I'm curious.

[Dormie1360]

Do you guys over there usually have a local rule defining earthen cart paths as GUR?  As we normally walk, it's not a common situation and I'm curious.

Hi Colin,

I've not seen any local rules like this.  Things defined as cart paths over here are usually made out of something, whether concrete, asphalt, crush stone, etc.  Sometimes a course will have a cart path by the tee and as you proceed a short distance from the tee it ends.  The idea is that once leaving the cart path you "scatter".

Having said that, a heavily traveled area that was rutted could certainly be deemed as GUR, but I don't think you would see a lot of courses with a Local Rules covering this. It's not that common.

As to the OP, hardpan or ground without grass is not automatically GUR.  A local rule defining all hardpan as GUR seems like a stretch to me.

[ColinL]

Thanks, John.  As I thought, relief from the cart path is normally because it is an obstruction which, of course, an earthen one wouldn't be. I was also wondering if there might be a popular misconception that relief can be taken from a cart path because it is a path for carts rather than because it is artificially surfaced?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayG

What Shindig said.... HOWEVER- depending on the course- some would consider that the hard-pan that develops from carts using the same route, but not an "OFFICIAL" cart path, as not necessarily "GUR" but a de-facto cart path that would get relief.

Do you guys over there usually have a local rule defining earthen cart paths as GUR?  As we normally walk, it's not a common situation and I'm curious.

The course I played for 35 years did not declare dirt tracks as GUR.  Only if they were paved or graveled.  They were actually quite specific on one track that the maintenance crews used.  On one hole this track ran through rough on the far side of a small (about 8 feet wide) irrigation ditch, and was packed clay, rock hard when dry (which in Colorado it is most of the time), with small pebbles embedded in it in spots.  It was declared an integral part of the course, and I often dropped on it after depositing my ball in the hazard, as the lie on the track was better than most of the rough within the two clublengths allowed from the lateral hazard.

[DaveP043]

Thanks, John.  As I thought, relief from the cart path is normally because it is an obstruction which, of course, an earthen one wouldn't be. I was also wondering if there might be a popular misconception that relief can be taken from a cart path because it is a path for carts rather than because it is artificially surfaced?

Colin, I'll join the others, I've only seen relief given for paved surfaces, not from earthen paths.  One particular instance was last year's US Open at Pinehurst.  The use of either buggies or caddies is required for resort guests (only club members and their guests are allowed to carry their own bags), and there are very firmly packed sandy paths for the buggies to use.  All of those unpaved paths were played as "through the green" for the tournament.

As for the OPs question, I've seen some instances where there will be a general guideline for unmarked GUR, such as "that bare patch to the left of 11 fairway".  It can be really time-consuming to mark GUR, so its not unusual for the markings to be done only for tournaments.  That said, I'd probably play it down.

[WatchOutLeft]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I kinda figured it was BS. I wouldn't have gone along with it other than the guy being and employee of the course and picking up my ball and tossing it to me. It seems to me like courses SHOULD have general rules about this for fairways. That wasn't the case here as we were clearly left of the fairway, but there is nothing as frustrating as hitting a perfect drive only to find you have ended up in a mud hole in the middle of the fairway that a cart has gone through and left you with a really screwy lie. I guess once you play that hole it's on you to know that little obstacle is there. It doesn't seem any different than casual water to me. Casual water comes after too much rain. Dirt spots come after too little. Neither are meant to be part of the course design. Now if you miss the fairway like we did in this case, then tough crap.

But I guess that's life on the golf course. Such a damn hard game.

[dkolo]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I kinda figured it was BS. I wouldn't have gone along with it other than the guy being and employee of the course and picking up my ball and tossing it to me. It seems to me like courses SHOULD have general rules about this for fairways. That wasn't the case here as we were clearly left of the fairway, but there is nothing as frustrating as hitting a perfect drive only to find you have ended up in a mud hole in the middle of the fairway that a cart has gone through and left you with a really screwy lie. I guess once you play that hole it's on you to know that little obstacle is there. It doesn't seem any different than casual water to me. Casual water comes after too much rain. Dirt spots come after too little. Neither are meant to be part of the course design. Now if you miss the fairway like we did in this case, then tough crap.

But I guess that's life on the golf course. Such a damn hard game.

I made a thread about this last year when I had an issue with a course's local rule, and the moral of the story turned out that just because a golf course or course employee says so doesn't make it true from a Rules perspective. It's amazing how often they're wrong. I wouldn't pick a fight about it, but you could still go back and play your ball from the GUR. Unless they specify, GUR isn't a mandatory drop.

[joekelly]

At some courses, overridden with rooting animals like wild pigs, the management employs 'abnormal ground conditions' and free drop outside those areas where the pigs have bulldozed the turf.  Obviously the groundskeepers cannot post a sign at every spot as many happen during the night.

[Asheville]

At some courses, overridden with rooting animals like wild pigs, the management employs 'abnormal ground conditions' and free drop outside those areas where the pigs have bulldozed the turf.  Obviously the groundskeepers cannot post a sign at every spot as many happen during the night.

And, here's the Committee's authority to do so:

33-8/32.5,

Local Rule Treating Severe Damage by Non-Burrowing Animals as Ground Under Repair

Q. May a Committee make a Local Rule declaring areas severely damaged by non-burrowing animals to be ground under repair without marking them as such?

A. Yes. Furthermore, in some instances a Committee would be justified in specifying that interference with the player's stance is not, of itself, interference from the condition - see the Note under Rule 25-1a .

[DrvFrShow]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I kinda figured it was BS. I wouldn't have gone along with it other than the guy being and employee of the course and picking up my ball and tossing it to me. It seems to me like courses SHOULD have general rules about this for fairways. That wasn't the case here as we were clearly left of the fairway, but there is nothing as frustrating as hitting a perfect drive only to find you have ended up in a mud hole in the middle of the fairway that a cart has gone through and left you with a really screwy lie. I guess once you play that hole it's on you to know that little obstacle is there. It doesn't seem any different than casual water to me. Casual water comes after too much rain. Dirt spots come after too little. Neither are meant to be part of the course design. Now if you miss the fairway like we did in this case, then tough crap.

But I guess that's life on the golf course. Such a damn hard game.

I've had that happen too. - a 3-4" deep trough in the fairway from a cart or mower tire. It won't be marked as GUR, but come on. Unless it's a tournament, I'll pick the ball out of that. I'm not a masochist. If it's a tournament I'll ask for a ruling.

[joekelly]

Ah, Julia.  You must learn to use your foot.  Bending over and picking the ball tells everyone what is going on.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchOutLeft

Thanks for all the replies guys. I kinda figured it was BS. I wouldn't have gone along with it other than the guy being and employee of the course and picking up my ball and tossing it to me. It seems to me like courses SHOULD have general rules about this for fairways. That wasn't the case here as we were clearly left of the fairway, but there is nothing as frustrating as hitting a perfect drive only to find you have ended up in a mud hole in the middle of the fairway that a cart has gone through and left you with a really screwy lie. I guess once you play that hole it's on you to know that little obstacle is there. It doesn't seem any different than casual water to me. Casual water comes after too much rain. Dirt spots come after too little. Neither are meant to be part of the course design. Now if you miss the fairway like we did in this case, then tough crap.

But I guess that's life on the golf course. Such a damn hard game.

I've had that happen too. - a 3-4" deep trough in the fairway from a cart or mower tire. It won't be marked as GUR, but come on. Unless it's a tournament, I'll pick the ball out of that. I'm not a masochist. If it's a tournament I'll ask for a ruling.

See, and for me playing these shots, even in a casual round, is a big part of the joy of the game.  For me the game of golf is about overcoming adversity, so when adversity rears up I want to go all whack-a-mole on its head, not side-step it.

But that is just me.

[Golfingdad]

I was also wondering if there might be a popular misconception that relief can be taken from a cart path because it is a path for carts rather than because it is artificially surfaced?

Yes, I would bet this is right on.

But that is just me.

No it's not.