Brandel Chamblee Says Tiger Has "Done This to Himself"

[phan52]

Looks like Tiger's baseline shifted again. I hope his glutes are firing.

[Mac62]

Looks like Tiger's baseline shifted again. I hope his glutes are firing.

All I can say is I guess you have to admire his guts, working another "baseline shift" during a qualifying round for a Major.  All he has to do now is take that baseline out there tomorrow and probably have to shoot somewhere around 12 or 13 under to make the cut.

[mvmac]

Yeah I don't think he was "trying" anything new on the course today, he just played like shit. I wasn't really expecting a whole lot from him this week but some of those shots were tough to watch.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/thrash_talk/2015_us_open_staff_predictions

Mostly feel bad for Como because he's a really good guy and a quality instructor. Hopefully they can turn this around where Tiger can start shooting respectable scores.

[Mac62]

Yeah I don't think he was "trying" anything new on the course today, he just played like shit. I wasn't really expecting a whole lot from him this week but some of those shots were tough to watch.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/thrash_talk/2015_us_open_staff_predictions

Mostly feel bad for Como because he's a really good guy and a quality instructor. Hopefully they can turn this around where Tiger can start shooting respectable scores.

I was being sarcastic.

I don't believe his 80 today was a "baseline shift" any more than I believe that his 85 at the Memorial was a "baseline shift".

The best he could come up with today was that he "kicked Rickie's butt out there".  I hope Rickie likes his joke and smiles real big - and then goes out and thrashes him by about 15 strokes tomorrow.

[32quattro]

An ageing and injured body fighting against young guns that are ripping it from tee to green. Is  history repeating itself ?

[iacas]

I was being sarcastic.

I don't believe his 80 today was a "baseline shift" any more than I believe that his 85 at the Memorial was a "baseline shift".

The 80 wasn't. The 85 was.

IMO.

Tiger's in good hands… except his own.

[newtogolf]

Yeah I don't think he was "trying" anything new on the course today, he just played like shit. I wasn't really expecting a whole lot from him this week but some of those shots were tough to watch.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/thrash_talk/2015_us_open_staff_predictions

Mostly feel bad for Como because he's a really good guy and a quality instructor. Hopefully they can turn this around where Tiger can start shooting respectable scores.

Como had to know this could be a great move or a disaster for his career.  He took a long shot bet that he could get Tiger playing golf the way he was with Haney and Harmon.  Right now he's taking the brunt of the blame for the poor golf we're seeing from Tiger, hopefully Tiger gets a few wins working with him like Foley did or this could turn out to be a really bad decision.

[Chris E]

An ageing and injured body fighting against young guns that are ripping it from tee to green. Is  history repeating itself ?

I see you buy into excuses he isn't even trotting out at this time (physical issues)....his target audience makes up excuses for him lol. He's 39 and still has the length, not 49. His problem is he can't hit it straight, not DJ or Rory driving it 330. Those young guys didn't cause him to shoot 80 yesterday. You act like this is a direct physical sport like boxing, which is crazy.

And, what history? What great golfer in history has made a fool out of himself to this extent, or fallen off from such a high? This makes Duval's fall from #1 look like nothing. And I'm not taking about those scores. I'm talking about all the BS that goes along with it. "Rebaselining", the "process", getting reps, and all the other psyco-babble BS coming from him and his cronies to convince themselves and his fanboys reality doesn't exist, a reality he and his fans can't handle. The path of ill will with others left in his wake, his train wreck relationships, etc. and to top it all off the media is so far up his ass as he trolls them around that they have the typical TST forum member by the ankles. Give me a break, it's just a big steaming pile of shit.

He will never win again, not because of his physical issues (which some believe he exaggerates as an excuse for his poor play) but because he is screwed up in the head. Anybody would be with that life and his decisions about his game. Somebody posted earlier about how he can't take his range game to the course, and of course that is mental. It started a couple of years ago, the hard swinging, the cracking on the weekends in majors.

Dude is beyond repair, he doesn't have the makeup to be humble and figure this out. He is trying to force good play because of who he was. He may post a low score here or there, maybe even today but it will never be consistent enough to win.

[Pit-Pat-Putter]

Chamblee is as baffled as I am that a great player (and potentially the greatest to play the game) would mess with his swing.  Perhaps he said, "hey, I'm really successful now, so maybe I can be really, really, really successful if I change my swing."

Perhaps the weight training began to effect the swing enough that Tiger felt an adjustment was necessary.  I do believe the weight training did contribute to some of his back issues.

However I do believe Brandel is partially correct.  I feel old muscle memory is getting in the way of all these swing changes, and if he went back to Haney the old swing would materialize and Tiger would at least have some consistency.

I wonder too about his childhood, and did Tiger even have one.  Was it all golf, competition, and winning?  Did he ever have a pick-up baseball game with the other kids?  And what about relationships?

=======================================================================================

Dustin Johnson, Rory, Martin Kaymer, and Adam Scott are not what I would call bulked-up. They have lean and trim physiques.

[mvmac]

Dude is beyond repair, he doesn't have the makeup to be humble and figure this out.

He's trying to figure it out with Como. This year is the most humble I've ever seen Tiger.

I don't think he's conning himself that his game isn't bad right now. He even took some time off early in the year to address his short game issues. Tiger has admitted his game sucks but he always tries to add something positive. You guys see this as "not recognizing the truth" but that's what good players do, you gotta stay positive and not give up.

[GolfLug]

I see you buy into excuses he isn't even trotting out at this time (physical issues)....his target audience makes up excuses for him lol. He's 39 and still has the length, not 49. His problem is he can't hit it straight, not DJ or Rory driving it 330. Those young guys didn't cause him to shoot 80 yesterday. You act like this is a direct physical sport like boxing, which is crazy.

And, what history? What great golfer in history has made a fool out of himself to this extent, or fallen off from such a high? This makes Duval's fall from #1 look like nothing. And I'm not taking about those scores. I'm talking about all the BS that goes along with it. "Rebaselining", the "process", getting reps, and all the other psyco-babble BS coming from him and his cronies to convince themselves and his fanboys reality doesn't exist, a reality he and his fans can't handle. The path of ill will with others left in his wake, his train wreck relationships, etc. and to top it all off the media is so far up his ass as he trolls them around that they have the typical TST forum member by the ankles. Give me a break, it's just a big steaming pile of shit.

He will never win again, not because of his physical issues (which some believe he exaggerates as an excuse for his poor play) but because he is screwed up in the head. Anybody would be with that life and his decisions about his game. Somebody posted earlier about how he can't take his range game to the course, and of course that is mental. It started a couple of years ago, the hard swinging, the cracking on the weekends in majors.

Dude is beyond repair, he doesn't have the makeup to be humble and figure this out. He is trying to force good play because of who he was. He may post a low score here or there, maybe even today but it will never be consistent enough to win.

In realm of human possibilities, I don't understand the logic behind absolutes. I hear you, but now that things are messed up, what the hell is supposed to do tomorrow, day after, day after that and that, next month and the month after that? Are you saying he should just quit? Sit there and cry over where he has gotten for the rest of his life.. next 40-50 some years??

IMO the 'rebaselining', etc. are sound-bytes to keep feeding the media. They want to be trolled. Keep asking him questions he doesn't really have any intelligent answers. What else would you say other than it's a 'process' - reset after each outing, rinse and repeat till clean. What else is there to do for him from now to eternity?? It ain't rocket science. It's not like he has to worry about keeping his card or feeding his kids for the foreseeable future. That's the beauty of it - no plan B required.

[Chris E]

In realm of human possibilities, I don't understand the logic behind absolutes. I hear you, but now that things are messed up, what the hell is supposed to do tomorrow, day after, day after that and that, next month and the month after that? Are you saying he should just quit? Sit there and cry over where he has gotten for the rest of his life.. next 40-50 some years??

IMO the 'rebaselining', etc. are sound-bytes to keep feeding the media. They want to be trolled. Keep asking him questions he doesn't really have any intelligent answers. What else would you say other than it's a 'process' - reset after each outing, rinse and repeat till clean. What else is there to do for him from now to eternity?? It ain't rocket science. It's not like he has to worry about keeping his card or feeding his kids for the foreseeable future. That's the beauty of it - no plan B required.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never wrote he should quit.

I also don't know where you are coming from with the 'cry for the next 40-50' year stuff. He is worth more money than I and most people can even dream of. He has the life where he could be happy, if he can.  And it is insulting that in this day and age with the struggles in society that the mental well-being of a billionaire that played sports for a living will not know what to do for the rest of his life if he can't play professional golf competitively. He doesn't know what real pressure is. Cry me a river.

I do hear you about absolutes, but if it walks and quacks like a duck, especially a duck that is on perpetual do-loop, then eventually you would hope even the most die-hard fanboys and the media sycophants would get a clue. It is also his choice what he chooses and does not choose to feed the media. It is his choice about how, if, or when he describes the issue.

He is not some victim here. He has cultivated this image and played along and used the media to his advantage, and he still plays along. And the media obliges, to the disgust of an increasing amount of golf fans.

And since I forgot to reply multi quote, MVMAC you see what he puts out there. What he says to the media and how he acts on the course are two different things. He is not humble on the course, with his game.

Look at all the BS we have heard from his cronies about how 'close' he is, the positive spin he puts out there. Look how he plays when not in competition, Day's quotes the other day for example. Then he goes from the range to the tournament and you can see that change in his swing. I'm not a teacher and I can see it....he swings too hard on the course. I wrote this in the British Open thread that Phil won. I also wrote that is why he was shooting 60's the days he had back problems before the surgery, he was swinging easier there and had no expectations. He tries to hard, he tries to force it when he feels the pressure of competition. That used to work, but all the swing changes and mental stuff has taken a toll. The humbleness I'm talking about is letting go and relaxing on the course and not thinking you can do what you can't now, force it.

He can't do it anymore and until he changes his mental expectations, he never will win. No matter what is fed to the media and no matter how much the fanboys gobble it up and make excuses, it doesn't change a thing. You guys keep talking about time, and rebaselining, Como, and process, and all this other scapegoat BS if it gives you hope.

[mvmac]

Then he goes from the range to the tournament and you can see that change in his swing. I'm not a teacher and I can see it....he swings too hard on the course. I wrote this in the British Open thread that Phil won. I also wrote that is why he was shooting 60's the days he had back problems before the surgery, he was swinging easier there and had no expectations. He tries to hard, he tries to force it when he feels the pressure of competition. That used to work, but all the swing changes and mental stuff has taken a toll. The humbleness I'm talking about is letting go and relaxing on the course and not thinking you can do what you can't now, force it.

Yeah we've been saying that for a couple years now, the range swing is different than the competition swing. Even today they were talking about how well he was hitting it on the range. But I don't think it's about being humble, he just needs to stop being dumb about it and break the habit.

[Chris E]

Yeah we've been saying that for a couple years now, the range swing is different than the competition swing. Even today they were talking about how well he was hitting it on the range. But I don't think it's about being humble, he just needs to stop being dumb about it and break the habit.

"We've" been saying that, collectively? I'm sure there have been sporadic proclamations by the 'haters' in here about him being screwed in the head inre to the range and the course. The main hope in here is looking for technical excuses, or physical ones  to cling to. Clowns are even tossing away the 85 as some type of practice round due to some new buzzword 'rebaseline' BS lol. Delusion runs deep.

It's easy for you to sit here and say for him to stop being 'dumb'. Just 'do it' right, like his commercial? Is that how mental issues are overcome, stop being 'dumb'? It's not quite that easy I'm afraid, and I believe he will never 'stop being dumb'.

[GolfLug]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never wrote he should quit.

I also don't know where you are coming from with the 'cry for the next 40-50' year stuff. He is worth more money than I and most people can even dream of. He has the life where he could be happy, if he can.  And it is insulting that in this day and age with the struggles in society that the mental well-being of a billionaire that played sports for a living will not know what to do for the rest of his life if he can't play professional golf competitively. He doesn't know what real pressure is. Cry me a river.

I do hear you about absolutes, but if it walks and quacks like a duck, especially a duck that is on perpetual do-loop, then eventually you would hope even the most die-hard fanboys and the media sycophants would get a clue. It is also his choice what he chooses and does not choose to feed the media. It is his choice about how, if, or when he describes the issue.

He is not some victim here. He has cultivated this image and played along and used the media to his advantage, and he still plays along. And the media obliges, to the disgust of an increasing amount of golf fans.

And since I forgot to reply multi quote, MVMAC you see what he puts out there. What he says to the media and how he acts on the course are two different things. He is not humble on the course, with his game.

Look at all the BS we have heard from his cronies about how 'close' he is, the positive spin he puts out there. Look how he plays when not in competition, Day's quotes the other day for example. Then he goes from the range to the tournament and you can see that change in his swing. I'm not a teacher and I can see it....he swings too hard on the course. I wrote this in the British Open thread that Phil won. I also wrote that is why he was shooting 60's the days he had back problems before the surgery, he was swinging easier there and had no expectations. He tries to hard, he tries to force it when he feels the pressure of competition. That used to work, but all the swing changes and mental stuff has taken a toll. The humbleness I'm talking about is letting go and relaxing on the course and not thinking you can do what you can't now, force it.

He can't do it anymore and until he changes his mental expectations, he never will win. No matter what is fed to the media and no matter how much the fanboys gobble it up and make excuses, it doesn't change a thing. You guys keep talking about time, and rebaselining, Como, and process, and all this other scapegoat BS if it gives you hope.

Nope, just interpreted what you said. 'Dude's beyond repair' - which is an absolute - curtains. But then now you say - until he changes his expectations. Contradictory but more reasonable, no? No argument that mental frame is probably off. And yes, he seems to swing too hard.

It's not over till it's over. 'Humbleness'/'stubbornness' are BOTH double edged swords. You don't know which one will see you through until it does or until it doesn't.

BTW< I think you put a little too much weight on how much money he has got.

[Chris E]

Nope, just interpreted what you said. 'Dude's beyond repair' - which is an absolute - curtains. But then now you say - until he changes his expectations. Contradictory but more reasonable, no? No argument that mental frame is probably off. And yes, he seems to swing too hard.

It's not over till it's over. 'Humbleness'/'stubbornness' are BOTH double edged swords. You don't know which one will see you through until it does or until it doesn't.

BTW< I think you put a little too much weight on how much money he has got.

I think he is 'beyond repair'. I don't think he is coming back, I don't think he is capable of it, and I have been clear about that.

What is he stubborn about? He hits it good on the range, but then stubbornly refuses to have the same mindset on the course so that makes him stubborn? I call it a mental issue.

You clearing up his net worth makes me re-evaluate by sympathy for TW. Ok, reevaluation done.

[mvmac]

"We've" been saying that, collectively?

Referring to @iacas and myself. We've seen it in person several times.

It's easy for you to sit here and say for him to stop being 'dumb'. Just 'do it' right, like his commercial? Is that how mental issues are overcome, stop being 'dumb'? It's not quite that easy I'm afraid, and I believe he will never 'stop being dumb'.

I was being a bit facetious with the "dumb" comment, thought that was clear. It's going to be a tough habit or mental block to overcome, might never do it.

[iacas]

Como had to know this could be a great move or a disaster for his career.  He took a long shot bet that he could get Tiger playing golf the way he was with Haney and Harmon.  Right now he's taking the brunt of the blame for the poor golf we're seeing from Tiger, hopefully Tiger gets a few wins working with him like Foley did or this could turn out to be a really bad decision.

Though it's easy to say that, I don't know it to be true. Chris has other PGA Tour players, and was working with them before Tiger, and will likely go back after Tiger too. Let's assume the worst case happens (I suppose that would be either that Tiger retires OR that he fires Chris and lights it up with someone else)… I think a lot of pros will still give Chris a call. He's a smart guy. And a nice guy. And they know Tiger's fighting some demons.

Consider David Leadbetter. He even has a not-so-flattering nickname due to his… "work" with PGA Tour players, but even he can still get students.

I see you buy into excuses he isn't even trotting out at this time (physical issues)....his target audience makes up excuses for him lol. He's 39 and still has the length, not 49. His problem is he can't hit it straight, not DJ or Rory driving it 330. Those young guys didn't cause him to shoot 80 yesterday. You act like this is a direct physical sport like boxing, which is crazy.

Golf on the PGA Tour is a very physical sport. Part of that is largely due to Tiger's efforts and work at making golf a more athletic sport.

Is it physical "like" boxing? Of course not. But to say it's not physical, which I hope you're not saying, is just plain silly.

And, what history? What great golfer in history has made a fool out of himself to this extent, or fallen off from such a high?

Well that's kind of a goofy question, isn't it? Two easy reasons spring to mind:

• We've never been in a media culture like we are today.
• Tiger is by most everyone's estimates one of the top two golfers of all time, if not the best, so that kind of limits your selection pool of "fallen off from such a high," doesn't it? Duval? Dude won one major and was #1 because Tiger was working on his swing.

Hogan had the yips. He'd stand over a putt for 30 seconds without moving. Look up Harry Vardon, too. Plenty of awfully, awfully good golfers have had some humiliating ends or periods.

The path of ill will with others left in his wake, his train wreck relationships, etc. and to top it all off the media is so far up his ass as he trolls them around that they have the typical TST forum member by the ankles. Give me a break, it's just a big steaming pile of shit.

I don't know what reality you're living in, but…

• Train wreck relationships? Who? Elin? What others?
• The media is up his ass? Really? Have you been paying attention to "the media" for the past few years? The guy's scrutinized like nobody else. When the Thanksgiving 2009 shit hit, it became open season. The stuff people wrote about Tiger Woods, the guy who played a good sized role in keeping those guys in paying jobs writing about or covering golf, was astoundingly negative.

The reality in which I'm living is that Tiger is well liked by his fellow PGA Tour pros. He's still buddies with Sean Foley. He and Chris get along really well. He's guarded around people he doesn't know, but he's a loyal friend.

He will never win again, not because of his physical issues (which some believe he exaggerates as an excuse for his poor play) but because he is screwed up in the head.

Why not just be more blunt about it: you think it. Not "some" believe it).

Where was the physical excuse for his 85? Where was it for his 80 yesterday? Is Tiger somehow the only and first golfer ever to be injured?

Dude is beyond repair, he doesn't have the makeup to be humble and figure this out.

We must have weirdly different definitions of humble.

Of course he's going to SAY that he's close, that he can get back on top. Of course he will. If you don't think he should be saying those things, then you clearly don't understand the mindset and approach and actual feelings of a champion level athlete.

He demonstrates that he's humble by working his ass off . He knows it's hard work, and he's putting in that work. He's not looking for it to just come to him 'because he's Tiger Woods' or anything.=

Clowns are even tossing away the 85 as some type of practice round due to some new buzzword 'rebaseline' BS lol. Delusion runs deep.

I'm not gonna say a lot about that, but I believe very strongly, and feel I have good reason to say so, that he absolutely was using the course as a "practice" round that Saturday. I am as certain of that as I am that me saying this will not change your mind one little bit , but maybe someone else will read this, take me at my word given what I am likely to know or not know, and give it a little consideration or weight.

I'm a Tiger fan, but I'm not a Tiger fanboy. The guy has his work cut out for him, and I said in a group chat yesterday that he may very well be done. I don't know how, having swung three or four different ways at the highest level, he will be able to successfully adapt the new changes he's trying to make. I think it's likely little pieces of his old patterns will keep sneaking in, and often when he's under pressure (which, these days sadly, is any time he's on a course in an official event).

But, Tiger is also unique. He's not David Duval. He's not Ian Baker-Finch. He's the same guy who won 8 times in 2012-13, and returned to #1, and won Player of the Year.

So who knows? Not you. Not me. Not even Tiger.