Caddies Overused

[seagullplayer]

Seems to me some people will whine about anything.

Most caddies are probably better players than the person playing.

Unless the player happens to be a pro.

[Yukari]

A good caddie can definitely reduce your score by a few strokes. Some of these guys really know the course and once they have a good idea of how well you strike the ball will provide you with really good advice .  Downside is they are more expensive that a cart $80 versus $40.

Totally agree. Once when I we had a caddie, after a couple of holes, he knew my swing and told me what club to hit and at which direction. He was one if the best caddies I had bar none and one of the best rounds I played.

[ay33660]

Here is a twist. What if the rules strictly said a caddy could only carry the bag? Nothing else. Just carry the bag. How would lack of caddy knowledge on anything except just carrying the bag during a round effect the golfer? I think there are more than a few pros out there who would suffer a few lost strokes if they did not have caddy input.

A caddy is an employee, and what ever his/her boss wants him/her to do, it's part of their employment.

Me personally I would like to see at least one PGA tournament where there were no caddies allowed, and  pros had to carry their own bags.

Personally I would like to see ALL professional tournaments like that !!!!!!!!!!!!

If they can't carry the bag then allow the use of a push cart.

If their play is diminished because of getting tired from carrying or pushing their bag then tough ............ it is an athletic event isn't it.

Why should the pro golfer have someone there to calm them down after a bad shot or to guard them against a bad decision.

Tennis players are on their own when they are playing. Why not golfers ?????????

This way it is purely the better golfer and/or the golfer that spent more time doing his homework that will win ...... not the one with the better caddy who spent more time walking the course and doing his homework.

Other than the obvious this is the way golf has been historically played, I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why caddies cannot be banned from professional golf.

This is my view on professional golf only and I know it is off topic.

As for recreational golf I think a caddy is an great asset and would certainly speed up golf as they could tend to raking sand traps, filing divots etc.

I have no issues at all with recreational use of caddies.

[jamo]

Personally I would like to see ALL professional tournaments like that !!!!!!!!!!!!

No you wouldn't. Not if you like seeing pros finish rounds in under 6 hours.

[ay33660]

No you wouldn't. Not if you like seeing pros finish rounds in under 6 hours.

The PGA could control that by assess pace of play stroke penalties.

My point is that golf should be an individual sport just like tennis.

Coaches, caddies etc should not be involved in the field of play.

I know this would never happen but this is a discussion board.

It is something my golf group discusses on a regular basis.

Especially when it applies to the LPGA where the caddies even line up their shots ??????????

WTF the pros cannot even line up their own shots.

[jamo]

The PGA could control that by assess pace of play stroke penalties. My point is that golf should be an individual sport just like tennis.

Why should ? If anything, the prevalence and influence of caddies has only lessened over time. [quote name="ay33660" url="/t/82598/caddies-overused/30_30#post_1154880"]Especially when it applies to the LPGA where the caddies even line up their shots ?????????? WTF the pros cannot even line up their own shots. [/quote] Not exclusive to the LPGA. See Holmes, J.B.

[ay33660]

Why should? If anything, the prevalence and influence of caddies has only lessened over time.

Not exclusive to the LPGA. See Holmes, J.B.

Why should? - in my opinion I want to see the best player in terms of both physical ability and mental toughness win the tournament. If a player has a bad shot and cannot deal with it on the next few shots then I want to see that, I don't want to see the influence of a caddy calming him down.

Again this is my opinion being expressed here I am sure you will have a different opinion.

Yes you are correct that caddy's lining up shots is not exclusive to the LPGA but it just seem like almost every LPGA caddy does this while only a few does so on the PGA. At least to my untrained eyes.

[Shindig]

The PGA could control that by assess pace of play stroke penalties. [/QUOTE] If they don't do that now, what makes you think they'd do that with your slowing-down-the-game change? [quote name="ay33660" url="/t/82598/caddies-overused/36#post_1154880"] My point is that golf should be an individual sport just like tennis.

Good thing the professional tennis players never have a doubles match or anything like that. And good thing professional golfers never have foursome or four ball play! [quote name="ay33660" url="/t/82598/caddies-overused/36#post_1154880"] Coaches, caddies etc should not be involved in the field of play. I know this would never happen but this is a discussion board. It is something my golf group discusses on a regular basis. [/quote] They discuss taking golf ever further from its roots?

[ay33660]

Good thing the professional tennis players never have a doubles match or anything like that. And good thing professional golfers never have foursome or four ball play!

Ok you got me it was badly worded.

I want golf to not have the influence of a caddy within the field of play just like tennis match that do not have coach's in the courts.

Only the players should be in the field of play.

This applies to doubles in tennis and foursomes in golf. Let the athletes compete by themselves without their coaches, caddies etc in the field of play.

Much better now.

Do you think there should be caddies?

[ay33660]

They discuss taking golf ever further from its roots?

Yes we do.

We discuss a lot of things that may go against what has always been done in the game of golf.

We discuss why you should not get relief from divots, why OB is not just a drop without the distance penalty etc.

Just as this is a discussion board our group discusses a lot of stuff that involves taking golf further from its roots.

Sometimes we actually see golf change like the new rule on when a ball moves on the green after a player has addressed it.

And your point is we should not be discussing stuff like this ?????????

[ay33660]

If they don't do that now, what makes you think they'd do that with your slowing-down-the-game change?

Well having a six hour round as pointed out by jamo could force them to enforce it perhaps ????????????

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

A good caddie can definitely reduce your score by a few strokes.  Some of these guys really know the course and once they have a good idea of how well you strike the ball will provide you with really good advice.  Downside is they are more expensive that a cart $80 versus $40.

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You pay $40 to ride in a cart?  The most I've ever paid is $20 and I thought that was pretty high.  Most places it's around $15 when it's separate from the green fee.

I suspect he is talking about private courses where you have the option to use a caddie. Our cart fees are $28 and the stipulated caddie fee is $40 (plus tip), but most make a minimum of $55 and the good ones make up to $80. Most private courses (at least in the Philly area) are in the $25-40 range for cart fees. A good caddie speeds up play and enhances the round considerably, IMO.

[iacas]

I added a poll.

I also voted for the last option. It's not against the rules, and it would be difficult to write such a rule while still allowing a caddie to go to the top of a hill or something to indicate where a player should hit a shot, but I hate how many mostly LPGA Tour players use their caddie to line them up. When's the last time one of the caddies changed the alignment of their player?

It happens all the time by the other parents in the USKG events in which I caddie for my kiddo.

[DeadMan]

The only thing that caddies do that bother me is fix their player's alignment. Lining up your shot correctly is a fundamental of golf to me. If you can't do it when you're a professional, I don't even know what to say.

That being said, if I played with a caddy in a serious tournament, I would probably have them check my alignment. Because I want to use every advantage I can.

[dfreuter415]

The only thing that caddies do that bother me is fix their player's alignment. Lining up your shot correctly is a fundamental of golf to me. If you can't do it when you're a professional, I don't even know what to say. That being said, if I played with a caddy in a serious tournament, I would probably have them check my alignment. Because I want to use every advantage I can.

You see a lot more LPGA caddies lining up their players than the PGA or Champions tour. This sometimes gets tedious.

I don't have a problem most of the time, because it only takes a second or two. Besides, caddies cannot be on the actual line of the shot when it is struck.

Rule 14-2

b. Positioning of Caddie or Partner Behind Ball

A player must not make a stroke with his caddie, his partner or his partner's caddie positioned on or close to an extension of the line of play or line of putt behind the ball.

Penalty for Breach of Rule 14-2:  Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes.

[rkim291968]

The more I watch golf the more I notice the caddie have in my opinion far too much of an input.

Without putting them down their job should just to be on the bag. Any info on the course, yardages, how the green rolls all the course craft us amatures have to contend with should be down to the indivual golfer to workout for themselves and put in the hours learning

As far as Im concerned golf is an indivual sport and all this confiring with the caddie almost makes it a team event

I'd like to believe that golf is an individual sport but I've accepted the fact that caddie & golfer are a team, beyond just the employer and employee.   It shows in their pay structure as they get paid a percentage of winner's purse.    If all they do is carry bag, they should just get paid by the hour (or round, whatever).

[joekelly]

On the green, over the ball mark, the caddy stands with the  putter and makes a practice stroke along the putting line.  From behind, the golfer watches. Then they swap positions, the caddy moves away, the ball replaced and the putt made.

Now that would be unusual to see on the TV.  And, as far as i can tell, perfectly legal.

[Golfingdad]

On the green, over the ball mark, the caddy stands with the  putter and makes a practice stroke along the putting line.  From behind, the golfer watches. Then they swap positions, the caddy moves away, the ball replaced and the putt made.

Now that would be unusual to see on the TV.  And, as far as i can tell, perfectly legal.

Not really ... Phil Mickelson and his caddy do this all the time.  They don't swap the putter back and forth, though, the caddy is just holding a wedge in his hands usually.  Sometimes he does it with no club too.