2016 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[Wally Fairway]

The last time Team USA won the Ryder Cup was in 2008.
That team had 6 Ryder Cup rookies, the youngest of which was Anthony Kim....anyone remember him?
Only 2 players from that years squad are playing this year....FIGJAM and one of the rookies, JB Holmes

Damn that seems like a long, long time ago

[JetFan1983]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

https://twitter.com/McIlroyRory/status/781535441233162241

 

Best thing I've seen today. 

[natureboy]

10 hours ago, FinTurma said:

Willett's brother tried to be funny, but he was way offline. Bad effort in dry humor..

He should've not written anything like that. It's just going to make things harder for his brother and I'm sure Danny W. is gonna hear it from the crowds.

Given the tone, I wonder if the editors got him good and soused before he wrote it and then tried to wind him up because they wanted a little 'buzz' for circulation?

Might have been funny in a local in one of England's more 'insular' boroughs, but not for the larger audience of a now international game.

8 hours ago, newtogolf said:

I also expect Danny will get some extra heckling from the fans thanks to his brother.  

I hope that any heckling is clever and classy and doesn't 'prove the point' of Willet's bro. Take the (relative) high road. A chorus of raspberries before teeing off or loudly cheering any of his bad play (at this event only) would be sufficient as a 'response', IMO. I wouldn't want to see anyone 'responding in kind' about the English.

10 hours ago, MacDutch said:

Willett's brother is not a part of the Ryder cup team. Willett made appologies:

http://m.bbc.com/sport/golf/37500790

Good responses by Willett & Darren. I liked how Willett remembered and pointed out  being embraced by the Augusta fans for his good play despite them probably hoping for a Spieth repeat.

That said, the deed is done, genie out of the bottle, pandora's box opened. If a jingoist article like that came out of any European golf magazine the crowd would  likely respond. The fact that the author is related to a member of the team, just gives the response a specific focus.

4 hours ago, nevets88 said:

 

USA chant at Willett isn't very clever. I like the hot dog one, because in the prelude to U.S. entering WWII a hot dog picnic was good enough for the King and Queen.

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

No question that's a possibility.  On the other hand, his behavior this weekend, especially in the face of the inevitable hecklers, could do a lot to overcome any damage his brother may have caused.  If he can react with grace, even good humor, he could actually come out ahead.  If I were him, I'd be looking for a "lego-man" plastic wig, and maybe even some Euro-uniform cargo shorts, to wear to the first tee.  To me, that would defuse everything.

Might diffuse it. Could also be taken wrong way like he's trying to pass off what his brother said as a light-hearted 'joke'. Plus it just draws attention back to the comments.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

Might diffuse it. Could also be taken wrong way like he's trying to pass off what his brother said as a light-hearted 'joke'. Plus it just draws attention back to the comments.

The thing is, it WAS a joke!.  Sure, many (most?) Americans don't like being on the receiving end of joking stereotypes, but it was a joke.  Anyone too dim to realize it was a joke deserves to be made fun of!  Anyone who looks around and doesn't see at least a few people who fit the stereotypes that were used isn't really looking.  I think this bit from Andrew Johnson, printed in Golf Digest this month, is pretty appropriate:

Quote

BEST TV SHOWS: "Family Guy," "The Simpsons" and "South Park." They're all animated and brilliant because they're able to bypass political correctness. The world has gone mad that way, hasn't it? The way teachers are required now to say "chalkboard" instead of "blackboard," things like that. When I watch "Family Guy" depict the English as having smashed-up teeth and stuffy accents, I die laughing because there's truth in it. It's a bit sad that to laugh at ourselves, we have to watch cartoons to do it.

 

[natureboy]

2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The thing is, it WAS a joke!.  Sure, many (most?) Americans don't like being on the receiving end of joking stereotypes, but it was a joke.  Anyone too dim to realize it was a joke deserves to be made fun of!  Anyone who looks around and doesn't see at least a few people who fit the stereotypes that were used isn't really looking.  I think this bit from Andrew Johnson, printed in Golf Digest this month, is pretty appropriate:

A mean-spirited joke at its core IMO. A collection of clunkers in bad taste that went a bit too far. Sure to get some cheers at the local pub for bashing the yanks.

If he had stuck simply to the drunken idiots who feel compelled to shout inanities after every stroke, I'd be on board. I expect the generally nice people in MN will help 'put a line under it' in the spirit of Arnold Palmer hobbling in mock limp up to the green after getting buried by the mob of spectators at The Open Championship.

Laughing at yourself is different from laughing at someone else. I'm not particularly PC, but there was no Euro / English stereotypes as 'egg on our own face' in Pete Willet's piece, was there? Andrew Johnston could make a few jokes and I wouldn't bat an eye, because he regularly makes fun of himself and doesn't take himself too seriously. Simpsons is brilliant satire because it makes fun of human quirks and frailties of all kinds. That said, I'm not incensed just a little irked at the overall tone of the piece.

Having a bit of fun with challenging the fan to sink the putt and high-fiving him for coming through / smiling about it was more the spirit of the event that I enjoy than Pete Willet's 'article' or any response to it.

[Hardballs]

Hello everyone, I've been away from the site for a year or so, but I'm really looking forward to the Ryder cup wkend! Think USA have a stronger team compared to previous years, however, I also think EU may have more in-form players at the moment, Stenson, Rose and McIlroy in particular.  DJ, Spieth and Mickelson will be tough, along with Patrick reed. Im also looking forward to seeing how the rookies cope with the pressure, the Ryder cup is quite unique and not a format they're used to, anyway, may the best team win, I expect it to be really close and impossible to call.

[Hardballs]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

A mean-spirited joke at its core IMO. A collection of clunkers in bad taste that went a bit too far. Sure to get some cheers at the local pub for bashing the yanks.

If he had stuck simply to the drunken idiots who feel compelled to shout inanities after every stroke, I'd be on board. I expect the generally nice people in MN will help 'put a line under it' in the spirit of Arnold Palmer hobbling in mock limp up to the green after getting buried by the mob of spectators at The Open Championship.

Laughing at yourself is different from laughing at someone else. I'm not particularly PC, but there was no Euro / English stereotypes as 'egg on our own face' in Pete Willet's piece, was there? Andrew Johnston could make a few jokes and I wouldn't bat an eye, because he regularly makes fun of himself and doesn't take himself too seriously. Simpsons is brilliant satire because it makes fun of human quirks and frailties of all kinds. That said, I'm not incensed just a little irked at the overall tone of the piece.

Having a bit of fun with challenging the fan to sink the putt and high-fiving him for coming through / smiling about it was more the spirit of the event that I enjoy than Pete Willet's 'article' or any response to it.

Pete willets twitter account is quite well known over here, he likes to poke fun at things, including his brother, he can be quite funny at times and although his comments could be taken offensively I'm pretty sure it's just light hearted banter. I'm surprised the media have jumped all over it but i suppose it's just to build up the rivalry of the two teams

[Chris E]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

He also said the Euro players played better, and deserve some credit, too. Though their world rankings are lower, they often come in with more wins, etc.

Over 18 holes of match play, and over the Ryder Cup format of 28 points, two matches that go one way could easily go another way and the entire outcome could be affected.

Consider that if you think a 16-12 win is a blowout victory, if just two matches over the span of those 28 matches go the other way - if the U.S. wins the 18th hole twice to win 1 up instead of losing 1 down - the matches are halved 14-14, and then it just takes halving a third match, maybe in singles, to win the Cup outright.

Even 16-12 or other margins of victory that appear large are quite small. Golf is often decided by the smallest factors. Look at how often top players are knocked out in the World Match Play. Happens all the time. 18 holes is a small sample size. That's why majors are contested over 72… and they almost never, ever, ever shorten them. The more holes you play, the more likely the "better" golfers come out on top.

You can say "the past 20 years" all you want, but it's not 20 years, it's 10 Ryder Cups, and the U.S. has won two of those.

E 16.5 - 11.5
E 14.5 - 13.5
E 14.5 - 13.5
U 16.5 - 11.5
E 18.5 - 9.5 (there's a true blowout)
E 18.5 - 9.5 (ditto)
E 15.5 - 12.5
U 14.5 - 13.5

And it's convenient to say "20 years" because of course the U.S. won in 1991 and 1993. So I could say 4 of the last 12, which sounds a lot better than 2 of the last 10, or 1 of the last 7.

Why not go back further to really put me in my place? I thought we were talking about the modern competitive Ryder Cup. That is the subject.

You act like this is some random activity, like flipping a coin. If a random 50/50 act turned up 80% one side, it would be fair to question the 'randomness' of it. But, it is not even an equal, random situation. On average the American's rank higher, and their best players have been some of the best in history. Yet, they have losing records and the team as a whole have underperformed. Wash the stats on paper through a Monte Carlo and predict, over the last 10 cups, what will turn up. If you say the lesser team, as defined by their resume, will win 80% of the time then you will be wildly mistaken. 

The Americans have underperformed, especially their best players, in the Ryder Cup. BC's argument is that this has an affect on the team in general. I take it further, I think the whole thing is in their head, that is why they underperform. It is also why they will lose again this year, especially with their BS Jr. High task force, DL3's bragging about the quality of the team, and Mickelson's narcissistic clown act. Why they don't just STFU and come play is beyond me, they put pressure on themselves. 

[chriskzoo]

That guy that made the putt to win $100 off Rose is a Legend - I can't even imagine having that story to tell.

Love may also be the worst at pairings - Spieth/Reed was a no-brainer, but why would you play Phil in Foursomes?

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

The last time Team USA won the Ryder Cup was in 2008.
That team had 6 Ryder Cup rookies, the youngest of which was Anthony Kim....anyone remember him?
Only 2 players from that years squad are playing this year....FIGJAM and one of the rookies, JB Holmes

Damn that seems like a long, long time ago

 

43 minutes ago, Chris E said:

Why not go back further to really put me in my place? I thought we were talking about the modern competitive Ryder Cup. That is the subject.

I went back exactly as far as you did, and exactly as far as Brandel and Duval were talking about. You said 20 years, and so that's how far back I went. So…

43 minutes ago, Chris E said:

You act like this is some random activity, like flipping a coin. If a random 50/50 act turned up 80% one side, it would be fair to question the 'randomness' of it.

You do realize that a flipped coin can easily come up heads 8 times out of a sample size of 10, right?

43 minutes ago, Chris E said:

The Americans have underperformed, especially their best players, in the Ryder Cup.

Or have the Euros out-performed their expectations, and were the Cups closer than a 2-8 record might otherwise indicate?

I didn't disagree that the U.S. team has under-performed.

43 minutes ago, Chris E said:

BC's argument is that this has an affect on the team in general. I take it further, I think the whole thing is in their head, that is why they underperform.

But you disagree with a guy who was actually on Ryder Cup teams?

I'm not willing to lay a bunch of blame at the feet of only a few people - one of whom you're well known to dislike severely - because of something that could quite literally be a result of a few putts here and there as Duval said. If they fall the other way, the U.S. could easily be 7-3 or 6-4 or whatever… Duval's points have merit.

43 minutes ago, Chris E said:

It is also why they will lose again this year, especially with their BS Jr. High task force, DL3's bragging about the quality of the team, and Mickelson's narcissistic clown act.

I look forward to the crow you'll have to eat if the U.S. team wins. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't.

[natureboy]

54 minutes ago, chriskzoo said:

That guy that made the putt to win $100 off Rose is a Legend - I can't even imagine having that story to tell.

Love may also be the worst at pairings - Spieth/Reed was a no-brainer, but why would you play Phil in Foursomes?

I would agree that Phil's game seems a bit more suited to fourball, but he has a solid overall game. Phil can be a little wayward off the tee, but Rickie is good out of the rough. With all the matches they play together they know each others' games very well. Both have solid short games.

I was a little more surprised about Walker and Johnson pairing, but looking at it I can see the method to the madness. Zach is poor at GIR out of the rough, but that's based on his own driving distance. He may be deadly from the rough at Walker's avg distance - certainly would be from fairway. Walker (season long) is not strong on proximity, but that's likely because he hits out of the rough more frequently, but on Zach's drives he's more likely to be in the fairway than usual. Both of them have plus short games (around the green & putting) to save pars. By putting them out in this session they get their match in if he needs to sit them in favor of a stronger fourball pair which their games are IMO both a bit weaker for.

I think this set of pairings was more about giving the rookies a bye for the first session and putting guys who've experienced the nerves before out first.

----------

FRIDAY AM PAIRINGS:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/friday-am-pairings-spieth-reed-vs-rose-stenson

Edited September 30, 2016 by natureboy

[MacDutch]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

because of something that could quite literally be a result of a few putts here and there as Duval said. If they fall the other way, the U.S. could easily be 7-3 or 6-4 or whatever… Duval's points have merit.

There are 28 matches, 352 holes (lets say all matches end on hole 16) and more then 1600 shots to play. It does not come down to a couple of putts. All shots count and these putts could also go in favour of the Euro's making it a bigger win then it was. In every match there are turning points, some in favour of the Euro's, some in favour of the USA. Don't point to the couple that went in favour of the Euro's, without pointing to the ones that went in favour of the USA.

It even sounds like 'drive for show and putt for dough'.

[Hazsa]

9 hours ago, Chris E said:

The Americans have underperformed, especially their best players, in the Ryder Cup. BC's argument is that this has an affect on the team in general. I take it further, I think the whole thing is in their head, that is why they underperform. It is also why they will lose again this year, especially with their BS Jr. High task force, DL3's bragging about the quality of the team, and Mickelson's narcissistic clown act. Why they don't just STFU and come play is beyond me, they put pressure on themselves. 

This sums it up for me. Turning fortunes around in RC history has become bigger than a golf match. I start to wonder how much they're actually thinking about golf, their strategy for getting the ball in the hole in the fewest attempts. That's what will help Team USA win the RC, not a task force and endless ramblings about team spirit.

[boogielicious]

16 hours ago, newtogolf said:

There's no question Willett's popularity here in the US is going to be damaged by his brothers comments.  

Not sure about that. It is not Willett who is saying this. I don't hold him to his brothers comments at all. 

[boogielicious]

http://deadspin.com/american-fan-at-ryder-cup-heckles-europeans-gets-calle-1787239881

Quote

There was tension between the Americans and Europeans at the Ryder Cup thanks to Danny Willett’s brother, but one American heckler in the crowd may have smoothed things over during today’s practice at Hazeltine National Golf Club.

Team Europe’s Henrik Stenson heard the jeers of David Johnson, a fan from North Dakota, and pulled him out of the crowd to make a putt. Justin Rose sweetened the deal with $100, right next to the ball. Rory McIlroy hugged Johnson after he made it:

Brian Murphy of the St. Paul Pioneer Press caught up with Johnson afterwards, who sounded like he was still trying to process what had just happened. “I closed my eyes, swallowed my puke, and hit the putt that happened to go in, so that was cool,” he said.

 

[skydog]

It seems like DL3 probably accepts too much input from Phil. When asked about it he basically made it sound like Phil told him he really wanted to play foursomes with Rickie so Davis obliged.

Phil doesn't have a good game for foursomes and doesn't play particularly well in cool weather. There are any # of different pairings I think Davis should have put out this morning instead of them...I don't see this match going the way of the US.

Edited September 30, 2016 by skydog

[nevets88]

Aaaaannnd, there's traffic of course

 

Who says social media is a cesspool? Minimal effort to see an event I'm partially interested in w/o trying.

Another angle of the putt.

 

[nevets88]