Rushing Because of Faster Players Behind

[saevel25]

Agreed, and when the course is full that's a different story. I was playing on Saturday and we were just 3 one guy canceled. We are behind a foursome and waiting on every shot and the foursome had 2 holes open in front of them, I remember seeing them tee off on #7 par 4 while the group in front of them was putting on the par 3 #8, and that's how it went all day, they would rush up and take their tee shots and never giving us the opportunity to play through. Ended up being a 4:10 round and everyone was in carts. I'd say 9/10 times I play I'm unable to play at my preferred pace, and the one time a slow player feels rushed they come to the forum and cry about it...

Call the pro shop and have the ranger come out and hold that group up to let you pass.

[Moppy]

Blind tee shots are a problem too. If you try to wait, but guess wrong, smack one right up the fairway and never find your ball because you didn't wait long enough and as you come over the rise you realize you hit into somebody because they are still dawdling. That makes people play slower. On my course sometimes the first cut of the rough is too long and a *lot* of time is spent looking for balls that should be playable and looked fine from where you made the shot.

I don't really play that slowly. I just understand the original posters point that it is a mental error to let people behind you make you feel rushed and you should let them play through on the shot where they catch you rather than rushing your game and losing strokes. I also understand that people get so mad about outrageous examples of slow play, like a slow foursome that won't let players through even if there are two holes in front of them. I would find that infuriating too. But people get furious at the first hint of slow play. Like the lady who got angry at our foursome when one of us  duffed a shot off THE FIRST TEE and went to hit a second. If you can't hold your temper for a "breakfast ball" then maybe you need to cool down a notch. We were all prepared to let the lady's group play though on the SECOND fairway, after hitting our tee shots while she finished up the first green, when she stormed past us to the third hole in a huff. Whatever, it was her round that was marred, not ours. We had a laugh and played on.

[Jon Hoover]

Call the pro shop and have the ranger come out and hold that group up to let you pass.

Ya I saw the ranger on #8 and talked to him about it and he said that they were still on pace for a 4hr round, at least at that time, I guess could have started a fuss but I just went along playing a slow round waiting on every shot.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Hoover

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu



This is the root of the issue, not that anyone thinks they are entitled to "take their time" or to "press forward".

If the course is full, there are very few golfers who would try to press forward much less hit into others all day. .

Agreed, and when the course is full that's a different story. I was playing on Saturday and we were just 3 one guy canceled. We are behind a foursome and waiting on every shot and the foursome had 2 holes open in front of them, I remember seeing them tee off on #7 par 4 while the group in front of them was putting on the par 3 #8, and that's how it went all day, they would rush up and take their tee shots and never giving us the opportunity to play through. Ended up being a 4:10 round and everyone was in carts. I'd say 9/10 times I play I'm unable to play at my preferred pace, and the one time a slow player feels rushed they come to the forum and cry about it...

And he wasn't even really rushed other than in his own head.

Again, this thread demonstrates why slow play is so intractable.  Because the slow people a) never think they are slow, and b) always have some rationale as to why it is OK for THEM to hold up other people.

From the OP:

Quote:

I stepped up my pace, and cleared every green before the twosome behind hit tee shots, but by the time I was on the par four 18 green the speedsters hit into me!

So apparently he was off the 17th green before the other group teed off on 17, yet they were able to play the whole 17th hole, hit their drives on 18 and then ht into him on their approaches.  So somehow they played the whole 17th hole and teed off on 18 AND got to their the shots in the time it took the OP to play 18.

Is it POSSIBLE this happened in just this way?  Sure.  Is it plausible?  Not in the least.  There is other stuff we aren't being told.

[Duff McGee]

And he wasn't even really rushed other than in his own head.   Again, this thread demonstrates why slow play is so intractable.  Because the slow people a) never think they are slow, and b) always have some rationale as to why it is OK for THEM to hold up other people. From the OP: So apparently he was off the 17th green before the other group teed off on 17, yet they were able to play the whole 17th hole, hit their drives on 18 and then ht into him on their approaches.  So somehow they played the whole 17th hole and teed off on 18 AND got to their the shots in the time it took the OP to play 18.   Is it POSSIBLE this happened in just this way?  Sure.  Is it plausible?  Not in the least.  There is other stuff we aren't being told.

Yep. And I never lose my patience when play is slow. I honestly don't really care. But the story doesn't hold up to the hundreds of real life experiences we all deal with on the course.

[eich41]

Yes the OP points out the exact reason why slow play is an issue.  Whether your pace is below the time set by the course is irrelevant, unless you are over the time, in which case you need to pick up your ball and skip the necessary holes to get back into position.  Proper etiquette calls to let faster groups play through.  Faster is a relative term, not an absolute.  If you're playing at a 2 hour pace and someone else is playing FASTER than you, let them play through.  I don't know what it is that makes people so reluctant to let someone play through.  As the OP stated, he felt rushed and was trying to pick up his pace beyond his comfort level.  So he's rushing, and the guys behind him and still playing slower than their pace and waiting.  Furthermore, OP stated that he didn't let them play through because "they hadn't reached the tee before I teed off" and therefore he wasn't holding them up which is comical.  So now the only way you let a faster group play through is if, after waiting for you to clear the green, they play their approach shots and then putt out and then get to the next box before you've even teed off? I can see why you don't let anyone play through if that's how you think it works.

Groups who refuse to let faster players play through (and usually justify it on the absolute minimum pace set by the course) just end up having a less enjoyable round for themselves and the group(s) they are holding up.  If they swallow their pride or whatever nonsense is keeping them from letting someone play through, everyone has a more enjoyable round.

And as pointed out above, the OP's story doesn't hold water in regards to not holding them up at all.

All that said, it's also inexcusable to hit into someone.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Aflighter]

Sorry CR I know how you feel about feeling rushed but since they were only a twosome you should have just waited and let them pass right then.Shouldnt ruin your game by trying to stay ahead of guys that would probably play faster because they are in cart compared to you walking.I think you were already agitated when they hit into you and that didnt help.

[bigwave916]

Yes the OP points out the exact reason why slow play is an issue.  Whether your pace is below the time set by the course is irrelevant, unless you are over the time, in which case you need to pick up your ball and skip the necessary holes to get back into position.  Proper etiquette calls to let faster groups play through.  Faster is a relative term, not an absolute.  If you're playing at a 2 hour pace and someone else is playing FASTER than you, let them play through.  I don't know what it is that makes people so reluctant to let someone play through.  As the OP stated, he felt rushed and was trying to pick up his pace beyond his comfort level.  So he's rushing, and the guys behind him and still playing slower than their pace and waiting.  Furthermore, OP stated that he didn't let them play through because "they hadn't reached the tee before I teed off" and therefore he wasn't holding them up which is comical.  So now the only way you let a faster group play through is if, after waiting for you to clear the green, they play their approach shots and then putt out and then get to the next box before you've even teed off? I can see why you don't let anyone play through if that's how you think it works.    Groups who refuse to let faster players play through (and usually justify it on the absolute minimum pace set by the course) just end up having a less enjoyable round for themselves and the group(s) they are holding up.  If they swallow their pride or whatever nonsense is keeping them from letting someone play through, everyone has a more enjoyable round. And as pointed out above, the OP's story doesn't hold water in regards to not holding them up at all.   All that said, it's also inexcusable to hit into someone.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

Agree completely and not to divert the thread, but I'd like to add that a single "has no standing" on the course. It used to be in the etiquette section of the rule book (not a rule). I don't know if it still is. I play a lot as a single and I appreciate the golf course working me in. In return I yield to other golfers in both directions. I will not push golfers in front of me and will practice chipping and putting, or play two balls so as not to play up behind a twosome or more . I let anybody coming up behind me to play through even though I know that they will quickly catch the group in front of me. The last thing I would do is call the Pro Shop and complain. IMHO, the first breach of etiquette lies with the OP.

[Moppy]

I have to say that he either wrote that carelessly or his story does not hold up. So I take my comments back.

Not to mention that this is a very unusual situation if exactly true and allowing for the way he wrote it, so probably not worth talking about beyond, "don't let yourself be rushed, let the rabbits play through.

[saevel25]

Agree completely and not to divert the thread, but I'd like to add that a single "has no standing" on the course. It used to be in the etiquette section of the rule book (not a rule). I don't know if it still is.

Seems like the USGA has reversed that stance,

[Lihu]

Not to mention that this is a very unusual situation if exactly true and allowing for the way he wrote it, so probably not worth talking about beyond, "don't let yourself be rushed, let the rabbits play through.

Not exactly a fair and unbiased statement.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CR McDivot

Played 18 today walking as a single....

When I reached the tee at 10, I could see a clear green in front, and no one for 4 holes behind. By 12 I caught sight of a twosome in a cart on the 11 green, and when I teed on 13 they were on the second shot of the par 5 twelfth...

I stepped up my pace, and cleared every green before the twosome behind hit tee shots, but by the time I was on the par four 18 green the speedsters hit into me!

Gentlemen, this was a mid day round on a Tuesday. One would expect to play a low pressure comfortable pace. I finished an hour ahead of pace. I hit my approach as they reached 18 tee. Then they hit their approach into me on 18 green.

Really, some of these replies simply make my point.

When a course posts a recommended pace, that is for a group of four, playing four balls.  For a single playing one ball, that number is reduced by a significant amount.  The day and time doesn't matter.  All that matters is that your pace was slower than that of the group behind you.

Instead of rushing, why didn't you just step aside and let the speed golfers go on by if there were open holes in front of you?  If there are faster players behind you, then by definition you were the slower player and should have allowed them to play through.  Very simple solution.

[bigwave916]

Seems like the USGA has reversed that stance,

Any speculation on what their logic might have been? There are several reasons that I adopted the practice recommended in the "older" rule books. One of them is that when I'm with a group of 3 or 4 and we have to let several singles through in the middle of 18 it does disrupt one's rythm. I play fast as do most people I play with, and I avoid playing with people who play slow. I guess if it gets more people playing, or keeps people playing, it's good for the game, perhaps that's why they changed their stance. I think I'll stick to my practice of trying to be more flexible when playing as a single.

[Jeremie Boop]

Agreed, and when the course is full that's a different story. I was playing on Saturday and we were just 3 one guy canceled. We are behind a foursome and waiting on every shot and the foursome had 2 holes open in front of them, I remember seeing them tee off on #7 par 4 while the group in front of them was putting on the par 3 #8, and that's how it went all day, they would rush up and take their tee shots and never giving us the opportunity to play through. Ended up being a 4:10 round and everyone was in carts. I'd say 9/10 times I play I'm unable to play at my preferred pace, and the one time a slow player feels rushed they come to the forum and cry about it...

Imagine how I felt when I was a single behind a 5 some who did the same thing to me. They were finishing up teeing off every time I walked of the green behind them only to see them pull away and never even glance back. What made it even worse was they were hitting some tee shots no more than 80 yards so I got to stand there for 10-15 minutes waiting to hit my tee shot. There was nobody in front of them. I went from playing pretty well to having a few blow up holes as I adjusted to the extreme change in pace. There is zero excuse for a group hold up people behind them on an open course, especially when they are a 5 some which already violates most courses rules.

Any speculation on what their logic might have been? There are several reasons that I adopted the practice recommended in the "older" rule books. One of them is that when I'm with a group of 3 or 4 and we have to let several singles through in the middle of 18 it does disrupt one's rythm. I play fast as do most people I play with, and I avoid playing with people who play slow.

I guess if it gets more people playing, or keeps people playing, it's good for the game, perhaps that's why they changed their stance. I think I'll stick to my practice of trying to be more flexible when playing as a single.

I believe it's because that rule originally was put in because people were playing wager matches which made their game "more important" than a single just out playing.

[MrDC]

The groups I play with play at what I feel is a normal pace, I've never had a group ask to play through, nor stand around waiting for us to play, because we move along, but being a walking group we have had those riding in front get ahead, that's natural, as long as the players riding know how to do it right they'll beat a walker every time.

So for me, I'll be very reluctant to let a faster group behind play through, the reason being is we're not slow, and the only thing that playing through does for us is create a possible backup ahead, why should we wait? if the group behind is fast and waiting for normal pace of play it's just a congestion issue, I say too bad for them, better luck next time.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Hoover

Agreed, and when the course is full that's a different story. I was playing on Saturday and we were just 3 one guy canceled. We are behind a foursome and waiting on every shot and the foursome had 2 holes open in front of them, I remember seeing them tee off on #7 par 4 while the group in front of them was putting on the par 3 #8, and that's how it went all day, they would rush up and take their tee shots and never giving us the opportunity to play through. Ended up being a 4:10 round and everyone was in carts. I'd say 9/10 times I play I'm unable to play at my preferred pace, and the one time a slow player feels rushed they come to the forum and cry about it...

Imagine how I felt when I was a single behind a 5 some who did the same thing to me. They were finishing up teeing off every time I walked of the green behind them only to see them pull away and never even glance back. What made it even worse was they were hitting some tee shots no more than 80 yards so I got to stand there for 10-15 minutes waiting to hit my tee shot. There was nobody in front of them. I went from playing pretty well to having a few blow up holes as I adjusted to the extreme change in pace. There is zero excuse for a group hold up people behind them on an open course, especially when they are a 5 some which already violates most courses rules.

I've been there and it sucks.  That is why it was kind of ridiculous when someone (I don't think it was the OP) said that it was their policy only to let players through who get to the tee box before they have teed off.  Yet another statement in this thread that made no sense whatsoever.  The lengths to which slow players have to go to justify their slowness is rather astounding.

And, done right that 5-some could have let you play through without it costing them more than a minute or two.  It isn't just that slow players are slow, it is that too many of them just do not seem to give a damn about anyone else on the course.

[Jeremie Boop]

The groups I play with play at what I feel is a normal pace, I've never had a group ask to play through, nor stand around waiting for us to play, because we move along, but being a walking group we have had those riding in front get ahead, that's natural, as long as the players riding know how to do it right they'll beat a walker every time.

So for me, I'll be very reluctant to let a faster group behind play through, the reason being is we're not slow, and the only thing that playing through does for us is create a possible backup ahead, why should we wait? if the group behind is fast and waiting for normal pace of play it's just a congestion issue, I say too bad for them, better luck next time.

Wait, even if there's room in front you won't let them play through? Because you aren't slow? That's irrelevant, you are slower than them and if there is room for them to play through then the right thing to do is allow them to do so.

I've been there and it sucks.  That is why it was kind of ridiculous when someone (I don't think it was the OP) said that it was their policy only to let players through who get to the tee box before they have teed off.  Yet another statement in this thread that made no sense whatsoever.  The lengths to which slow players have to go to justify their slowness is rather astounding.

And, done right that 5-some could have let you play through without it costing them more than a minute or two.  It isn't just that slow players are slow, it is that too many of them just do not seem to give a damn about anyone else on the course.

They way I play and how far I hit compared to them, I could have teed off and hit my second shot before they were even able to finish teeing off. Heck, their second shots wouldn't even have made it to my drive....

[jgreen85]

Any speculation on what their logic might have been? There are several reasons that I adopted the practice recommended in the "older" rule books. One of them is that when I'm with a group of 3 or 4 and we have to let several singles through in the middle of 18 it does disrupt one's rythm. I play fast as do most people I play with, and I avoid playing with people who play slow.

I guess if it gets more people playing, or keeps people playing, it's good for the game, perhaps that's why they changed their stance. I think I'll stick to my practice of trying to be more flexible when playing as a single.

well, if there are three singles in a row, I'd expect them to join up in to one group rather than to expect to each play through me. Seems very inefficient for them to be seperate groups. I'd also blame the pro shop for allowing that.

A more likely scenario is a group sees a single at 3, 7, 11, 15; in which case, I don't think your timing would be off if your group follows the procedure I outlined earlier in this thread which is to create a foursome for 1.5 holes.