Recreational "Tour" with Modified Rules, Good or Bad?

[Fourputt]

Well i hope none of you play best ball or scrambles, cause thats not real golf according to you guys

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Funny, because I played what I considered recreational golf in a tournament club for 22 years.  We always had fun, played in many formats, yet we always played by USGA Rules, except for our early spring get acquainted scramble, which was intended to be a social event.  The concept that you can't have fun while playing a recreational tournament or even a casual round by the rules has always been puzzling to me.

For those who say that the league the OP describes is playing golf - how can it really be golf when the most basic of golf's fundamental principles (playing the ball as it lies) is being tossed out the window?  I played the game for 15 years before I really started to try and learn the rules, but even during that time I never deliberately ignored the rules, I simply didn't know them very well.  I always thought I was playing by the rules, but as I gained experience I found that the word of mouth rules I'd picked up along the way were mostly inaccurate or incomplete.  I gradually moved closer and closer to playing the game correctly, but one principle that I never fudged on was playing the ball as it lies.

I learned that axiom before I ever picked up a club to play golf.  You play the lie that your previous stroke gave you, unless a stroke is impossible or impractical, and then there are simple rules to cover those instances.  If a player never learns more than that, he is pretty much playing golf.  If he throws that fundamental out, then he is not.  He is playing something that vaguely resembles golf, but can't be compared to the real thing.

I play golf with all sorts of players.  I see all sorts of creative rules applications.  It doesn't bother me in the least.  I sometimes even play by their rules, at least to some extent.  But when it comes to fluffing lies, I draw the line.  I don't care if it takes away from my competitiveness, I don't enjoy simplifying the game just in the quest of making it more "fun".  If it's not fun as golf, then why did you take it up in the first place?  Most golfers love the game because of the challenge, not in spite of it.

You don't show much ability to put yourself in other's shoes.

You said that you picked up inaccurate/incomplete rules through word of mouth. Others may be visual learners and think part of the game of golf is fluffing the ball on the fairway because they see others do this. For most of the beginners I have seen, the game is challenging enough playing from perfect lies. While some progress to the level that bad lies offer more challenge in a good way, others only get to the level that a bad fairway lie is more of a disappointing frustration rather than a fun challenge. I always play the ball down unless the committee dictates otherwise, but understand why others prefer to fluff the ball.

On a side note, what does it say about the ROG if it took you, a noted rules expert, 15 years before you started to get a good understanding of the rules?

So then it lies on those of us who do know the rules to help and encourage those who don't to further their knowledge, not encourage them to ignore the rules, or worse to give them the false impression that rules like that league in the OP uses are in any way correct.  Done correctly and with a good attitude, teaching rules to a fellow player doesn't have to be tedious for him or stressful for you.

[MEfree]

So then it lies on those of us who do know the rules to help and encourage those who don't to further their knowledge, not encourage them to ignore the rules, or worse to give them the false impression that rules like that league in the OP uses are in any way correct.  Done correctly and with a good attitude, teaching rules to a fellow player doesn't have to be tedious for him or stressful for you.

I agree that teaching some of the rules to a fellow player doesn't have to be tedious or stressful and agree that this is useful info for players who want to play competitively. I don't think I was attempting to give the impression that the league in question plays by USGA rules. [quote name="MEfree" url="/t/83342/recreational-tour-with-modified-rules-good-or-bad/54#post_1173883"]Haven't read all the posts, but agree with those that find a problem with preferred lies in the rough. I can understand why some like to play preferred lies in your own fairway as it rewards accuracy and takes away the luck element if you play a course with poor fairways, but don't like preferred lies off your own fairway. With that said, if this is your most convenient option for competition, I would go for it knowing that you can still play the ball down when you play on your own. Later, you can look around for a more serious competitions if you enjoy playing tourny golf.[/quote]

[turtleback]

I played in a "recreational" league several years ago. 12-14 groups of 4 players. Pretty much stuck to the rules, even with the other cart keeping the scores for the other one. The only real variation was the OB penalty. IF you thought it was OB, you would hit your provy. If the original was OB, a kind of committee decision on where it went out among the players- a drop within 2 clubs from best estimate, hitting 3. This was only really to keep things moving and not have to go all the way back to the tee. No "winter rules" unless specified at the beginning. Only came into play once or twice due to weather.

I'm confused.  If a provisional was hit why would any such "committee" decision be necessary - just play the provisional.

Or do you mean if the player didn't hit a provisional this is what you would do?  If so I am still confused.  If someone had hit a provisional, and the original ball WAS OB, then their next swing would be at the provisional and they would be hitting 4.  Yet with your "committee" you say the guy is hitting his third.

Doesn't this penalize the guy who did the right thing by hitting a provisional (who is now hitting his 4th shot) compared to the guy who didn't do the right thing, who is now hitting 3?

Or perhaps I am misunderstanding?

[Hatchman]

Coming in late but I courage you to play both if you feel up to it. Local clubs may modify some rules to speed play, get new golfers involved (we have brutal punishing rough here). Other tourney's same club play straight up, as it lies, for example. You find the rough your pretty much out of the hole. My first tourney they flighted me as a nervous Nellie with what turned out to be the first place and third overall winners. They taught me a lot, worth the price of the entry fee. On the first hole, par five however, my second or layup shot was in the deep rough and they helped me locate it. I then hit the ball over the pond onto the green...when I marked and went to clean it...damn if it wasn't the wrong ball. I announced and assessed myself the penalty. Enjoyed the experience overall.

[iacas]

If everybody is playing by the same rules, I don't see how it would dilute the competition - everybody is just going to have artificially lower scores.

Worse players will benefit more than better players.

Consider the extreme:

- Player A hits every fairway.

- Player B misses every fairway and gets to put the ball on a fluffy lie every time.

Which player benefits the most from getting to move your ball around?

[Nosevi]

Today at my home course there was a very large group teeing off mid-day. I was curious and asked around. Turns out it is a recreational "tour". Intended for weekend bogey golfers to play competitive golf on a variety of courses throughout the year.

I checked out their site, it is pretty in depth. They have a few events each weekend all summer long. Players have a modified handicap (not USGA). They have live scoring, purse money, money list, tour championship, etc.

At first I thought this was exactly what I was looking for. I have been wanting to play competitive golf as of late, and keeping my eyes open to opportunities.

This "tour" seemed perfect for me until I saw that they modify the rules quite a bit. Here is the description of the rules changes:

Quote:

7. What are the rules differences between the USGA and the Mulligan Tour?

The significant rules differences are:

* optional mulligan on first tee only

* no loss of distance for O.B. or lost ball

* lift, clean , and replace ball in fairway or rough (within 6" of spot)

* move ball 6" in any direction to improve lie (except on the green)

* 3 putts maximum

* Quadruple Bogie Max score per hole

I have just recently established a USGA handicap and have enjoyed getting better at golf while strictly following the rules of golf.

Is modifying the rules of golf like this good or bad for the game? On the one hand it may attract more recreational golfers and allow them to enjoy the game more, but is it too far from the spirit of the game?

The first two rules I am fine with since these are not USGA handicap rounds, it's the "preferred lies" in the third and fourth bullet that concern me. If I play this I have two choices: 1) I can choose to ignore the rule and leave my ball as it lies, putting me at a disadvantage in the competition, or 2) follow the "preferred lies" and really hurt myself when I play outside of this tour and have had little practice playing from difficult lies. This is my main concern, that myself, as well as the golfers on this "tour" are learning and practicing the game without having to face one of the most challenging aspects: playing the ball as it lies.

Any thoughts? Should I give this a try, or will it take me too far from a path to competitive golf? Honestly, without the rules modifications this tour sounds like a lot of fun, that's why it bothers me.

Had a long answer written out but just deleted it. Short one is this isn't competitive golf. The basis of golf is you play the ball as it lies. You don't take mulligans if you're edgy on the 1st or pick up if you can't putt or drop a ball about where you think one went out of bounds or improve your lie if you lack the skill to play from the rough. Fun it may be, competitive golf it categorically isn't.

[RayG]

I'm confused.  If a provisional was hit why would any such "committee" decision be necessary - just play the provisional. Or do you mean if the player didn't hit a provisional this is what you would do?  If so I am still confused.  If someone had hit a provisional, and the original ball WAS OB, then their next swing would be at the provisional and they would be hitting 4.  Yet with your "committee" you say the guy is hitting his third.   Doesn't this penalize the guy who did the right thing by hitting a provisional (who is now hitting his 4th shot) compared to the guy who didn't do the right thing, who is now hitting 3?  Or perhaps I am misunderstanding?

Yeah, that was kind of confusing. Sorry about that. I misspoke about hitting "3" part as well. Yes, if you didn't hit a provy, and the ball was OB, it would be decided where about it probably went out and then after a drop, HITTING 4. Same basic penalty as if you DID hit the provisional. That was the only real "official" stray from "The Rules" in that league. I didn't stay around too long since most of the "rules" weren't exactly judiciously followed, anyway. Lots of roll overs in the fairway, rough, etc... along with some real baggers in the bunch. IT's amazing that people would get that worked up to win a $25 gift card after paying $100 a season membership, plus 50-80 bucks a week to play.

[newtogolf]

It appears golf is starting to get infected with what's wrong with the rest of the world imo.  We want to eliminate anything that is hard, difficult or frustrating and make it simpler and more fun so everyone feels good.

Big Johnny doesn't like writing 120 on his score card so rather than take lessons and practice we will create a league where Big Johnny can take mulligans, use foot wedges and gimme's so he can write a lower score down on his score card and feel better about his golf game.  We'll make it a league so it sounds official and if you leave out the modified rules part Big Johnny's can brag at the water cooler about how he shot an 85 last weekend in his league and everyone will be impressed with what a good golfer Big Johnny is.

Then Big Johnny gets asked by his manager to be his playing partner (because the boss has heard what a great golfer Big Johnny is) in a real golf outing that follows the ROG .  We know how the story will end, so no need to type it out.

I'd have no interest playing in a modified rules golf league.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

I'm confused.  If a provisional was hit why would any such "committee" decision be necessary - just play the provisional.

Or do you mean if the player didn't hit a provisional this is what you would do?  If so I am still confused.  If someone had hit a provisional, and the original ball WAS OB, then their next swing would be at the provisional and they would be hitting 4.  Yet with your "committee" you say the guy is hitting his third.

Doesn't this penalize the guy who did the right thing by hitting a provisional (who is now hitting his 4th shot) compared to the guy who didn't do the right thing, who is now hitting 3?

Or perhaps I am misunderstanding?

Yeah, that was kind of confusing. Sorry about that. I misspoke about hitting "3" part as well.

Yes, if you didn't hit a provy, and the ball was OB, it would be decided where about it probably went out and then after a drop, HITTING 4. Same basic penalty as if you DID hit the provisional.

Ahhh, that makes more sense.  At least in the rules deviation you describe there is a real attempt to get close to what the correct score should be.  A lot of folks who do the "drop a ball" thing add one stroke(now hitting 3), thereby gifting themselves the other stroke, since adherence to the rules would have had them hitting 4 on their next shot.

It seems like most of the most egregious rules violations, planned or unplanned, occur in golf leagues.

It appears golf is starting to get infected with what's wrong with the rest of the world imo.  We want to eliminate anything that is hard, difficult or frustrating and make it simpler and more fun so everyone feels good.

Big Johnny doesn't like writing 120 on his score card so rather than take lessons and practice we will create a league where Big Johnny can take mulligans, use foot wedges and gimme's so he can write a lower score down on his score card and feel better about his golf game.  We'll make it a league so it sounds official and if you leave out the modified rules part Big Johnny's can brag at the water cooler about how he shot an 85 last weekend in his league and everyone will be impressed with what a good golfer Big Johnny is.

Then Big Johnny gets asked by his manager to be his playing partner (because the boss has heard what a great golfer Big Johnny is) in a real golf outing that follows the ROG .  We know how the story will end, so no need to type it out.

I'd have no interest playing in a modified rules golf league.

You almost have to wonder why they didn't just pick an easier leisure activity?  My 2 favorite leisure activities are two of the hardest games I know, golf and 3-cushion billiards.  I LIKE the fact that they are hard, and for me it would completely defeat the purpose to routinely break the rules so I could write down a better score.  Of course it is much harder to cheat in 3C.

OTOH, it is not new.  I remember coming across a pdf copy of a magazine that was big back in the 20s or so (was it called The American Golfer?) and while the language was different the complaints were not that dissimilar, both as to rules laxity AND poor pace of play.  Ah, found it.

http://www.puttingzone.com/americangolfer.html

These take a long time to download as they are pdfs made up of graphic scans, and at this point I couldn't find the one I was referring to, but if anyone wants a look at what golf media looked like at the dawn of the 20th century this is a good source.

[Nosevi]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

It appears golf is starting to get infected with what's wrong with the rest of the world imo.  We want to eliminate anything that is hard, difficult or frustrating and make it simpler and more fun so everyone feels good.

Big Johnny doesn't like writing 120 on his score card so rather than take lessons and practice we will create a league where Big Johnny can take mulligans, use foot wedges and gimme's so he can write a lower score down on his score card and feel better about his golf game.  We'll make it a league so it sounds official and if you leave out the modified rules part Big Johnny's can brag at the water cooler about how he shot an 85 last weekend in his league and everyone will be impressed with what a good golfer Big Johnny is.

Then Big Johnny gets asked by his manager to be his playing partner (because the boss has heard what a great golfer Big Johnny is) in a real golf outing that follows the ROG .  We know how the story will end, so no need to type it out.

I'd have no interest playing in a modified rules golf league.

You almost have to wonder why they didn't just pick an easier leisure activity?  My 2 favorite leisure activities are two of the hardest games I know, golf and 3-cushion billiards.  I LIKE the fact that they are hard, and for me it would completely defeat the purpose to routinely break the rules so I could write down a better score.  Of course it is much harder to cheat in 3C.

This is so how I feel. I like golf because it's hard. There seems to be endless ideas about making golf easier for people to play, either for everyone or just making the amateur game easier than the professional game, and I've yet to read or hear about a good one. Technology has made the game easier than it used to be but courses have lengthened to at least offset a little of this. There should be a marked difference between what a highly skilled golfer shoots and what I shoot right now, if there isn't what's the point in trying to become a highly skilled golfer? If you're a bogey golfer and want to shoot lower scores (or a scratch golfer and want to shoot lower scored for that matter) go out and get lessons and practice, you'll feel a massive sense of achievement as your scores start to drop. But just changing the rules to make the game easier so people shoot lower scores is utterly the wrong way to go. All it achieves is making golf a little less of a skill based sport and that can never be a good thing IMO.

[MEfree]

Worse players will benefit more than better players. Consider the extreme: - Player A hits every fairway. - Player B misses every fairway and gets to put the ball on a fluffy lie every time. Which player benefits the most from getting to move your ball around?

I 100% agree with your analysis, but am not sure that this "dilutes the competition". I agree that B stands more of a chance of winning than if you were playing the ball down. In that regard, I agree that the quality of the winner of the competition may be diluted. However, given that more players might have a chance to shoot a lower score, the competition might be tougher with each stroke being more critical. Guess it really depends on what the OP means by diluting the competition.

[Elmer]

Worse players will benefit more than better players.

Consider the extreme:

- Player A hits every fairway.

- Player B misses every fairway and gets to put the ball on a fluffy lie every time.

Which player benefits the most from getting to move your ball around?

I agree to a point, but I dont think they will benefit that much.

I think we can agree and assume that player A hitting every fairway will be hitting it straight and then for will most definitely shooting for birdie or par on almost every hole.

Where as player B misses every fairway, we can only assume that the 2nd shot will likely be just as erratic, leaving that player scrambling after every shot. Now player B is also not getting the same look at the green that player A will be, which will also affect the score.

I would also wonder is this format would aid player A by covering up their mistakes. Being a certified hacker ie: bogie golfer, I have learned to scramble from the woods and any lousy lie. Most of my "player A" friends are always awkward playing from anywhere but a fairway!

I do think the modified rules will benefit a player B +, or someone who is good, but has only a bad shot or 2 a round.

For those who say that the league the OP describes is playing golf - how can it really be golf when the most basic of golf's fundamental principles (playing the ball as it lies) is being tossed out the window?  I played the game for 15 years before I really started to try and learn the rules, but even during that time I never deliberately ignored the rules, I simply didn't know them very well.  I always thought I was playing by the rules, but as I gained experience I found that the word of mouth rules I'd picked up along the way were mostly inaccurate or incomplete.  I gradually moved closer and closer to playing the game correctly, but one principle that I never fudged on was playing the ball as it lies.

This is the starched collar rhetoric that gets us golfers labeled as elitist. Not saying you are, just the way it sounds.

Golf is played with a golf ball, golf club on a golf course.  The rules regulate and define play.

When my 80 year old neighbor, who improves his lie and pick up 5 foot putts tells me he plays golf every Wednesday, do I tell him "no-you dont play golf"? Do I tell him he is only playing a "golf like game"?

Everyone on the course is playing golf, they just are not all playing by the rules.

When I go shoot hoop and play 1 on 1 with my kid in the driveway am I playing basket ball?

[Braivo]

Had a long answer written out but just deleted it. Short one is this isn't competitive golf. The basis of golf is you play the ball as it lies. You don't take mulligans if you're edgy on the 1st or pick up if you can't putt or drop a ball about where you think one went out of bounds or improve your lie if you lack the skill to play from the rough. Fun it may be, competitive golf it categorically isn't.

It is no longer a competitive sport when you don't play by the rules. Even my kids establish rules before they play made-up games in the backyard. As soon as one kid stops playing by the rules the game begins to disintegrate, they don't adjust the rules to accommodate the one who thinks they are unfair.

It appears golf is starting to get infected with what's wrong with the rest of the world imo.  We want to eliminate anything that is hard, difficult or frustrating and make it simpler and more fun so everyone feels good.

This is absolutely true. Golf is hard (h/t LSW). Maybe it won't grow over time, but does it have to grow? What is wrong with golf staying exactly the size it is right now? Golf has a thriving tour with lucrative TV contracts, there are beautiful courses all over the world in nearly every country. It doesn't need to be diluted to encourage growth, golf is a game that is passed from generation to generation. Most of us golf because our fathers taught us, and we will teach our children. There are plenty of junior golf programs available to aid with this, including the "family tee" I have seen sprout up on many courses. Those that didn't learn as children can rest assured that there are plenty of us veterans out there more than eager to teach you. Just ask.

As we teach these young kids the game, they instinctively want to follow the rules. My daughter went out with me last week for her first round. When she was struggling and I encouraged her to improve her lie or toss the ball out of a bunker she resisted, saying she wanted to do things "the right way".

There is a certain pride that comes with doing things well and doing them right. When we compromise those for the sake of "fun" we actually diminish the true joy that comes from succeeding at a difficult task. Many people may not want to work hard and reap the rewards, but I do, that is where I find a true connection to my human nature.

[newtogolf]

It is no longer a competitive sport when you don't play by the rules. Even my kids establish rules before they play made-up games in the backyard. As soon as one kid stops playing by the rules the game begins to disintegrate, they don't adjust the rules to accommodate the one who thinks they are unfair.

This is absolutely true. Golf is hard (h/t LSW). Maybe it won't grow over time, but does it have to grow? What is wrong with golf staying exactly the size it is right now? Golf has a thriving tour with lucrative TV contracts, there are beautiful courses all over the world in nearly every country. It doesn't need to be diluted to encourage growth, golf is a game that is passed from generation to generation. Most of us golf because our fathers taught us, and we will teach our children. There are plenty of junior golf programs available to aid with this, including the "family tee" I have seen sprout up on many courses. Those that didn't learn as children can rest assured that there are plenty of us veterans out there more than eager to teach you. Just ask.

As we teach these young kids the game, they instinctively want to follow the rules. My daughter went out with me last week for her first round. When she was struggling and I encouraged her to improve her lie or toss the ball out of a bunker she resisted, saying she wanted to do things "the right way".

There is a certain pride that comes with doing things well and doing them right. When we compromise those for the sake of "fun" we actually diminish the true joy that comes from succeeding at a difficult task. Many people may not want to work hard and reap the rewards, but I do, that is where I find a true connection to my human nature.

I agree, the achievements I've worked hardest at are the ones I'm most proud of.  I think as a society we're so concerned about being inclusive and making sure everyone feels good that we're losing that spirit for success and competition that exists in older generations.

I've worked harder at golf than any other sport I've ever participated in.  I play by the ROG because I want to measure my real progress (via my handicap) and nothing makes me happier than seeing my index go lower throughout the month as recognition of my hard work.

[Elmer]

It is no longer a competitive sport when you don't play by the rules. Even my kids establish rules before they play made-up games in the backyard. As soon as one kid stops playing by the rules the game begins to disintegrate, they don't adjust the rules to accommodate the one who thinks they are unfair.

This is absolutely true. Golf is hard (h/t LSW). Maybe it won't grow over time, but does it have to grow? What is wrong with golf staying exactly the size it is right now? Golf has a thriving tour with lucrative TV contracts, there are beautiful courses all over the world in nearly every country. It doesn't need to be diluted to encourage growth, golf is a game that is passed from generation to generation. Most of us golf because our fathers taught us, and we will teach our children. There are plenty of junior golf programs available to aid with this, including the "family tee" I have seen sprout up on many courses. Those that didn't learn as children can rest assured that there are plenty of us veterans out there more than eager to teach you. Just ask.

As we teach these young kids the game, they instinctively want to follow the rules. My daughter went out with me last week for her first round. When she was struggling and I encouraged her to improve her lie or toss the ball out of a bunker she resisted, saying she wanted to do things "the right way".

There is a certain pride that comes with doing things well and doing them right. When we compromise those for the sake of "fun" we actually diminish the true joy that comes from succeeding at a difficult task. Many people may not want to work hard and reap the rewards, but I do, that is where I find a true connection to my human nature.

I would say that lucrative TV contracts have nothing to do with the local courses pulling a profit. We have private courses all over that are opening their doors to the public just so they can remain open.

Golf is expensive and time consuming and if the sport does'nt get new participants more courses will fold.

Just in Myrtle beach alone you can make more money as condos than as a course (or so I was told by an owner years ago who was ready to sell)

I agree, the achievements I've worked hardest at are the ones I'm most proud of.  I think as a society we're so concerned about being inclusive and making sure everyone feels good that we're losing that spirit for success and competition that exists in older generations.

I've worked harder at golf than any other sport I've ever participated in.  I play by the ROG because I want to measure my real progress (via my handicap) and nothing makes me happier than seeing my index go lower throughout the month as recognition of my hard work.

I completely agree. I work hard at my golf game and I like to see when it pays off.

But I understand that people pay their money to play and they and no one is going to tell them the outcome they paid for.

I once played an alternating shot format with a random partner. he insisted on hitting a ball on every shot, even if every other shot counted. he said he paid to play and he was not going to be robbed of playing.

Made for a long afternoon.

[newtogolf]

I completely agree. I work hard at my golf game and I like to see when it pays off.

But I understand that people pay their money to play and they and no one is going to tell them the outcome they paid for.

I once played an alternating shot format with a random partner. he insisted on hitting a ball on every shot, even if every other shot counted. he said he paid to play and he was not going to be robbed of playing.

Made for a long afternoon.

I honestly don't care if people play by the rules or don't as long as it's not tournament or cash round.  I was more responding to this overall need by our society to make everything simple, easy and inclusive so no one feels bad or left out.

Golf is tough, very tough and a huge part of my attraction to it is how tough it is to play well.  Creating modified rules, larger cups and non-conforming equipment only creates a false illusion that they are playing golf.

It's like creating a simpler SAT for kids to take so they feel better about their scores but totally ignoring that when they take the real test they won't perform as well.

[isukgolf]

I honestly don't care if people play by the rules or don't as long as it's not tournament or cash round.  I was more responding to this overall need by our society to make everything simple, easy and inclusive so no one feels bad or left out. Golf is tough, very tough and a huge part of my attraction to it is how tough it is to play well.  Creating modified rules, larger cups and non-conforming equipment only creates a false illusion that they are playing golf. It's like creating a simpler SAT for kids to take so they feel better about their scores but totally ignoring that when they take the real test they won't perform as well.

Since joining the site I have really changed my view on these topics ... I have become more pro play the rules ... to the point to where I personal play as close as I know the "real" rules. However, I still take and give "give me's" Here is my question ... If you move the 3 point line in for college basketball, and use an aluminum bat in college baseball, is that not still playing basketball and baseball? So I only play "golf" if I have followed every rule. (Not calling @newtogolf out, but is a reoccurring sentiment that see in these threads.)

[newtogolf]

Since joining the site I have really changed my view on these topics ... I have become more pro play the rules ... to the point to where I personal play as close as I know the "real" rules. However, I still take and give "give me's"

Here is my question ... If you move the 3 point line in for college basketball, and use an aluminum bat in college baseball, is that not still playing basketball and baseball?

So I only play "golf" if I have followed every rule.

(Not calling @newtogolf out, but is a reoccurring sentiment that see in these threads.)

I know you weren't calling me out but in general I don't care what people call the "golf" they play when they aren't following the rules, but they should be aware there is a difference between the game they play and the one that follows the ROG.

Baseball players in college that use aluminum bats usually see a decline in their batting stats until they adjust to wood bats.  We also know that college players have to adjust to the added distance of the 3 point line.   Of course they are still playing basketball and baseball but their dependence on shorter 3 point lines and equipment that doesn't conform to MLB rules is only going to hinder their development if they intend to make the jump to the next level.

Find a golfer that uses non-conforming equipment, typically takes 2 - 3 foot "gimme's" and mulligans and have them compete in a match play tournament against someone with the same "reported" handicap and see how they do.  At my club you can pretty easily tell those that always putt out from those that play gimmes.  A 2 foot putt in with a tough hole placement isn't that easy to make if you're not used to making them.