Ball moved accidentally when player is getting stung by bee?

[Club Rat]

During our annual Member/Member last weekend, my friend was about to putt.

He get's stung by one of those pesty sweat bees and accidentally bumps the ball with his putter.

How should he proceed and are there any rules which covers these mishaps?

I wasn't sure and could not think of any rule which covers a situation like which happened.

I advised him to mark the original spot, continue play as the ball lies and then play a second ball from the original spot.

Then inquire with the Pro before turning in the score card.

Club Rat

[Fourputt]

Since there is no consideration in the rules for such an incident, it is treated like any other case where the player causes the ball at rest to move.  One stroke penalty and the ball must be replaced.  If the ball is not replaced, then two strokes and the score stands.  It doesn't sound as if the ball moved far enough to call it a serious breach.

In your case, the score with the second ball would be the one that counts, adding a penalty stroke.  When the player is the cause of the ball moving, it must always be replaced - the act of the bee is irrelevant.

[ccotenj]

hmmm.... just throwing this out there... could the bee be considered an "outside agency" that technically was the cause of the ball moving? e.g. the bee caused the ball to move by the act of stinging the player?

[isukgolf]

Since he bumped the ball with his putter, why would that not be one stroke and play the next stroke from where it lies? As if he had putted it ... even though it may not had gone any distance at all. I don't understand the "why" behind the penalty when you hit(bump) with a club.

[David in FL]

hmmm.... just throwing this out there... could the bee be considered an "outside agency" that technically was the cause of the ball moving? e.g. the bee caused the ball to move by the act of stinging the player?

Nope. While the bee is an outside agency, it did not, itself, move the ball. It's an argument I'd expect one of my buddies to try to make though..... ;-) [quote name="isukgolf" url="/t/83788/ball-moved-accidentally-when-player-is-getting-stung-by-bee#post_1182888"]Since he bumped the ball with his putter, why would that not be one stroke and play the next stroke from where it lies? As if he had putted it ... even though it may not had gone any distance at all. I don't understand the "why" behind the penalty when you hit(bump) with a club.[/quote] Because in order for it to count as a stroke, you must intend to strike the ball. One of only a handful of places in the Rules where intent matters.

[CarlSpackler]

What's all the buzz about?

[Martyn W]

" When the player is the cause of the ball moving, it must always be replaced"

.....except:  " If the ball is moved , it must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made"

[Elmer]

Since there is no consideration in the rules for such an incident, it is treated like any other case where the player causes the ball at rest to move.  One stroke penalty and the ball must be replaced.  If the ball is not replaced, then two strokes and the score stands.  It doesn't sound as if the ball moved far enough to call it a serious breach.

In your case, the score with the second ball would be the one that counts, adding a penalty stroke.  When the player is the cause of the ball moving, it must always be replaced - the act of the bee is irrelevant.

Stroke

A " stroke " is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he has not made a stroke .

However 18-2

b . Ball Moving After Address

If a player's ball in play moves after he has addressed it (other than as a result of a stroke ), the player is deemed to have moved the ball and incurs a penalty of one stroke .

The ball must be replaced, unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

Exception: If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause his ball to move , Rule 18-2b does not apply.

At first I thought it would be considered a stroke since he hit the ball with his putter. However it seems that there was not intent to hit the ball as defined above.

Therefore if there was no intent to move the ball the golfer must replace the ball and take a stroke.

hmmm.... just throwing this out there...

could the bee be considered an "outside agency" that technically was the cause of the ball moving? e.g. the bee caused the ball to move by the act of stinging the player?

The "outside agency" did not cause the ball to move. The golfer did.

I think using your logic you would say that when a rain drop hits the golfer on the back of the neck causing the golfer to flinch and move the ball, it is an "outside agency".

it is the golfer who moves the ball not his/her surroundings!

but that is just my opinion!

[ccotenj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccotenj

hmmm.... just throwing this out there...

could the bee be considered an "outside agency" that technically was the cause of the ball moving? e.g. the bee caused the ball to move by the act of stinging the player?

The "outside agency" did not cause the ball to move. The golfer did.

I think using your logic you would say that when a rain drop hits the golfer on the back of the neck causing the golfer to flinch and move the ball, it is an "outside agency".

it is the golfer who moves the ball not his/her surroundings!

but that is just my opinion!

nah, i'd consider "rain" to be the same as "wind" (not an outside agency)...  a golfer can reasonably expect wind/rain to impact his person, whereas the bee sting isn't something in his "expectation"...

like i said, just throwing it out there...   but there is a definite link of causality between the bee sting and the ball moving...  which is why "outside agency" popped into mind...

let's make it an alligator running out of a pond at a player, player runs, accidentally moves ball...  ruling?  a penalty for avoiding mauling/death seems rather extreme...

[David in FL]

let's make it an alligator running out of a pond at a player, player runs, accidentally moves ball...  ruling?  a penalty for avoiding mauling/death seems rather extreme...

Yep, penalty. Not for "avoiding mauling/death", but for causing his ball to move. Had the alligator moved the ball in chasing the golfer, the ball would have actually been moved by the outside agency , and there would be no penalty. It's worth remembering, that the Rules aren't necessarily "fair", but they must be "equitable", that is, they treat all like situations the same. The like situation in these cases is that the golfer caused his ball to move, for whatever reason.

[westerndevon]

I played a shot recently back up a slope and just as I was about to make contact with the ball it moved down the slope a fraction towards on the oncoming club head I take it that should be a 1 stroke penalty?

[David in FL]

I played a shot recently back up a slope and just as I was about to make contact with the ball it moved down the slope a fraction towards on the oncoming club head I take it that should be a 1 stroke penalty?

Not necessarily, unless you caused the ball to move or had addressed it. As in putting on a slope, in a situation like that you're better off not to address the ball.... Addressing the Ball A player has "addressed the ball" when he has grounded his club immediately in front of or immediately behind the ball, whether or not he has taken his stance. Decision 14-5/1 pertains. 14-5/1 Ball Moving During Backswing Struck While Still Moving Q.A player's ball starts moving during his backswing and he strikes the ball while it is still moving. What is the ruling? A.There is no penalty under Rule 14-5 because the ball began to move after the player had begun his backswing. However, if the player had caused the ball to move or addressed it, he incurred a penalty stroke - Rule 18-2a or b.

[Martyn W]

I played a shot recently back up a slope and just as I was about to make contact with the ball it moved down the slope a fraction towards on the oncoming club head

I take it that should be a 1 stroke penalty?

No penalty UNLESS you either caused the ball to move or had addressed it

14-5/1

Ball Moving During Backswing Struck While Still Moving

Q. A player's ball starts moving during his backswing and he strikes the ball while it is still moving. What is the ruling?

A. There is no penalty under Rule 14-5 because the ball began to move after the player had begun his backswing. However, if the player had caused the ball to move or addressed it, he incurred a penalty stroke - Rule 18-2a or b.

[westerndevon]

The ball was still stationary at address it wasn't until some moments after when I'd started the downswing did it move, so I guess I could knock a shot off that round

[DrvFrShow]

All I can say is that you have to be pretty damned observant to notice something in that 1/4 second. If you entered your score already it's too late.

[Elmer]

nah, i'd consider "rain" to be the same as "wind" (not an outside agency)...  a golfer can reasonably expect wind/rain to impact his person, whereas the bee sting isn't something in his "expectation"...

like i said, just throwing it out there...   but there is a definite link of causality between the bee sting and the ball moving...  which is why "outside agency" popped into mind...

let's make it an alligator running out of a pond at a player, player runs, accidentally moves ball...  ruling?  a penalty for avoiding mauling/death seems rather extreme...

I dont think it matters if it is a bee that hits you or a drop of rain or a leaf. The golfer caused the ball to move.
Would you say there is no penalty if someone blew a horn or yelled and it caused you to jump and make contact with the ball? These are things that are not in "expectation"

it is still the golfer who moves the ball and this is what the rules address.

[ColinL]

I played a shot recently back up a slope and just as I was about to make contact with the ball it moved down the slope a fraction towards on the oncoming club head

I take it that should be a 1 stroke penalty?

Hitting the moving ball does not incur a penalty. The stroke counts.

Then you need to consider whether you had addressed the ball or not (i.e. grounded your putter behind or in front of the ball)?

1.  If you had addressed the ball, you need to ask:

Did anything else definitely cause my ball to move such as a sudden gust of wind (the slope doesn't count)?

If yes, something else could be identified as the cause of the movement, there is no penalty.

If no, nothing else could be identified that moved the ball,  you are deemed to have caused it move and incur a one stroke penalty.  You do not replace the ball.

2.  If you had not addressed the ball, you need to ask:

Did I cause the ball to move?

If yes,  you incur a one stroke penalty but do not replace the ball.

If no, there is no penalty and you do not replace the ball.

Rules 14-5, 18-2a and 18-2b apply.

[DrvFrShow]

My advice is don't overthink the problem. You'll drive yourself nuts. You probably broke at least 4 laws just driving to the golf course. You're worried about whether you caused the ball to move a fraction of an inch during your downswing? Honestly I can't tell if I caused my ball to move a fraction of an inch during my downswing.