Incident on the green

[Hardspoon]

I find it amazing that folks here who just said that you should never hit voluntarily into someone are now defending this guy's action (which is exactly what he did) and vilifying me for moving his ball, or assuming that I am/was slow. I also said that the group behind never waited on us during the whole round, but they couldn't be bothered to wait for a few seconds due to that hole poor design.

Should you have waved him up so that he could hit even while you were walking?  Probably.

Should you have flung his ball away?  Probably not.

Should he have hit his ball with you walking there?  No.  100% no.  If I was in that group, I probably would have grumbled a bit about you not waving, but there is no way in hell I take that swing.

[MrFlipper]

Perhaps a picture of the topography may help: my push cart is at the X: I am at the O on the green, heading towards X, walking in front of the large tree, and my partners are ahead to the cart at C on the cart loop.  The ball pitch mark is about even with the bunker's finger, 10 yards to me right (looking back towards the fairway, i.e. on the left side of the green).

@Fourputt read my admittedly somewhat confusing description correctly: I am a walker exiting the green and my partners are getting back into their riding cart. I may be walking towards the next group but i am paying more attention to where I am putting my feet rather than looking at 200 yds away for somebody who should wait another 15 seconds or so before they hit. Oh, and the sun is setting towards the upper left corner of that map, so I am not looking into it.

My reaction may be childish, but not asinine, and if you think that my life is worth less than some idiot having to look 5 seconds to retrieve his ball, I don't know what to think about you.  What is the hurry? Can't he wait just a little bit? And instead of saying or gesturing sorry, he starts with: "you picked up my ball. Why? I hit the best shot of my life with my 6 iron" (which is a lie) as the confrontation progresses, he now says it was a 5 wood.  He was about 200 yards out from what I could tell after looking up to see where this was coming from: and you tell me that he does not know that his 5 wood can go in the neighborhood of 200 yards, or even 150 yds?  And of course, he is the rare player who never slices, right? The distance between the O and the X is about 45 yds, btw.

@newtogolf, my cart is exactly in the right place for a quick exit, as I hope the map shows.

I find it amazing that folks here who just said that you should never hit voluntarily into someone are now defending this guy's action (which is exactly what he did) and vilifying me for moving his ball, or assuming that I am/was slow. I also said that the group behind never waited on us during the whole round, but they couldn't be bothered to wait for a few seconds due to that hole poor design.

First off, I am a walker/carry person so I've done what you have done many times in terms of dropping off my bag.

And they shouldn't have hit into you, and they should have apologized and you shouldn't throw their ball away

Having said that, walking straight from O to X really places you in danger from any approach that you don't see and doesn't see you. Why not walk from O to C and walk down the path? Not much farther, much safer. And folks also won't have to wait on you when they do see you.

Don't put yourself at risk. Those guys who hit into you were jerks, but by walking that path that you did you are risking accidently being hit by non-jerks as well.

[sjduffers]

First off, I am a walker/carry person so I've done what you have done many times in terms of dropping off my bag.

And they shouldn't have hit into you, and they should have apologized and you shouldn't throw their ball away

Having said that, walking straight from O to X really places you in danger from any approach that you don't see and doesn't see you. Why not walk from O to C and walk down the path? Not much farther, much safer. And folks also won't have to wait on you when they do see you.

Don't put yourself at risk. Those guys who hit into you were jerks, but by walking that path that you did you are risking accidently being hit by non-jerks as well.

I understand what you are all saying, about the waving and what not, but my point is that even when someone is on the cart path between C and X (walking or in a cart), it is not safe: you are at the mercy of an errant shot, i.e. a slice. It happens very frequently there: I have lost a couple of balls in the tall grass behind the cart path loop myself.  And late in the day, waving is not really an option as you are looking into the sun and can't really see an incoming ball.  The path I took is the quickest way out of there, and is about 45-50 yards, the whole time in full view of the players approaching , as opposed to maybe 75 yds or more (and still in danger, for most of it) if you go O to C and then to X.  I see walkers do what I did there all the time: it's no big deal. Just wait a few more seconds...

So, I'll say "my bad" for tossing his ball a little ways away, but how do you teach a numbskull like that not to do what he did: lay down on the green holding your head, until he drives up, and when he does not see blood, get up on your feet and say: gotcha! ? That'll get his blood pressure up and make him think, right? Probably not. Idiots like this never learn.

[dkolo]

I understand what you are all saying, about the waving and what not, but my point is that even when someone is on the cart path between C and X (walking or in a cart), it is not safe: you are at the mercy of an errant shot, i.e. a slice. It happens very frequently there: I have lost a couple of balls in the tall grass behind the cart path loop myself.  And late in the day, waving is not really an option as you are looking into the sun and can't really see an incoming ball.  The path I took is the quickest way out of there, and is about 45-50 yards, the whole time in full view of the players approaching, as opposed to maybe 75 yds or more (and still in danger, for most of it) if you go O to C and then to X.  I see walkers do what I did there all the time: it's no big deal. Just wait a few more seconds...

So, I'll say "my bad" for tossing his ball a little ways away, but how do you teach a numbskull like that not to do what he did: lay down on the green holding your head, until he drives up, and when he does not see blood, get up on your feet and say: gotcha! ?   That'll get his blood pressure up and make him think, right? Probably not. Idiots like this never learn.

I'd have waited for sure because I'd fixate on the people walking off, but I can think of two holes like this nearby me and people routinely shoot while the group ahead is walking back, and no one thinks anything of it. You're facing the shot, you can see what's happening in front of you. The players approaching are in full view of you is my counterpoint to your bolded section. I don't think there's any real danger here.

[sjduffers]

I'd have waited for sure because I'd fixate on the people walking off, but I can think of two holes like this nearby me and people routinely shoot while the group ahead is walking back, and no one thinks anything of it. You're facing the shot, you can see what's happening in front of you. The players approaching are in full view of you is my counterpoint to your bolded section. I don't think there's any real danger here.

Have you tried picking up a golf ball in the air, coming at you while you are looking into the setting sun at the same time? If you can do it, good on you. I can't. And, no baseball, does not quite compare as the ball is quite a bit bigger (and I have never played baseball anyway so I don't have that skill).

[newtogolf]

Have you tried picking up a golf ball in the air, coming at you while you are looking into the setting sun at the same time? If you can do it, good on you. I can't. And, no baseball, does not quite compare as the ball is quite a bit bigger (and I have never played baseball anyway so I don't have that skill).

The setting sun is the missing piece of information, it's not easy to see a ball looking into the sun.  I still believe you should have a) left your push cart at C with the riding carts or b) walked from O to C and then to X rather than down the green and fairway.  It's a bad design, the cart path shouldn't make you double back given there's a road adjacent to the to path already but there's nothing you can do about that.

We have a Par 3 that requires you double back like this at my new home course.  There's a sign at the tee box that states golfers shouldn't tee off until the carts clear the green and the path in front of the green just so new golfers to the course know that they have to cross in front of the line of fire to get to the next hole.  It's a bit tougher for your course to warn new golfers to the course that those finishing on 18 have to cross back in front of the green to exit.

[rkim291968]

To OP, if the group in front of you who has been slow suddenly disappears from your view, be careful before you hit.   Sometimes, they may be hidden from view looking for a ball in trees, in blind spots.   At my home course, there are several blind spot holes where I have to make sure I can see the front group before deciding to hit.

[David in FL]

Perhaps a picture of the topography may help: my push cart is at the X: I am at O on the green, heading towards X, walking in front of the large tree, and my partners are ahead to the cart at C on the cart loop.  The ball pitch mark is about even with the bunker's finger, 10 yards to me right (looking back towards the fairway, i.e. on the left side of the green). @Fourputt read my admittedly somewhat confusing description correctly: I am a walker exiting the green and my partners are getting back into their riding cart. I may be walking towards the next group but i am paying more attention to where I am putting my feet rather than looking at 200 yds away for somebody who should wait another 15 seconds or so before they hit. Oh, and the sun is setting towards the upper left corner of that map, so I am not looking into it.  My reaction may be childish, but not asinine, and if you think that my life is worth less than some idiot having to look 5 seconds to retrieve his ball, I don't know what to think about you.  What is the hurry? Can't he wait just a little bit? And instead of saying or gesturing sorry, he starts with: "you picked up my ball. Why? I hit the best shot of my life with my 6 iron" (which is a lie) as the confrontation progresses, he now says it was a 5 wood.  He was about 200 yards out from what I could tell after looking up to see where this was coming from: and you tell me that he does not know that his 5 wood can go in the neighborhood of 200 yards, or even 150 yds?  And of course, he is the rare player who never slices, right? The distance between the O and the X is about 45 yds, btw. @newtogolf , my cart is exactly in the right place for a quick exit, as I hope the map shows. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/132510/] [/URL] I find it amazing that folks here who just said that you should never hit voluntarily into someone are now defending this guy's action (which is exactly what he did) and vilifying me for moving his ball, or assuming that I am/was slow. I also said that the group behind never waited on us during the whole round, but they couldn't be bothered to wait for a few seconds due to that hole poor design.

I probably would have left my cart on the other side of the path, at the "Y", and then exited the green and walked down the path rather than back down the fairway, but really, over 10 yards or so, I have no problem with where you left it. He shouldn't have hit. You shouldn't have touched his ball.

[Patch]

I have been hit, on the fly, by a golf ball. I had hooked a shot to spot the other golfer could not see me from the tee box. He hit, and I walked out into fairway at about the same time. He yelled, I got hit in the side of my hip. Left a good size bruise that lasted for a while. I said a few choice words to my self, and kept playing. It was an unfortunate accident.

Years before that, back when I was totally bulletproof,  I accidently hit into a group of guys with a career shots that went 30+ yards farther than normal. That's when I learned a good lesson to expect the best (and the worst) when golfing , One of those guys was really agitated with me, and got in my face, after waiting for me to get to my ball. I took the first part of his tongue lashing in stride, as I thought I owed it to him. However, after he kept going on,  I finally told him enough was enough and to go on with his game, or wind up in the water hazard. Luckily he moved on as he was big fella. Another lesson learned.

Another lesson learned was seeing both mine, and the big fella's game go south after our little discussion. I could see him fussing with his game in front of me, and I lost focus on what I was trying to do with mine. A career shot had ruined both our games that day.

[colin007]

ten yards away??  thats not being hit into....

[rkim291968]

ten yards away??  thats not being hit into....

10 yards is within the margin of error on most golfers, if not all.   If a ball falls 10 yards behind me, I will turn around and give them a look.   If they repeat it, I will yell something like "please wait until we are out of the way."    That usually does it.    People need to understand that waiting a few seconds more isn't going to help speed up the pace.  They are not going home any faster, really.  Why take a chance of alienating the group in front?  More importantly, why risk hitting someone with your golf ball?  Almost all my club members wait long enough for the front group to be safely out of their best shot's reach.

But the OP was doing the right thing IMO.  The only thing is that he may need to be mindful in the future of the front group's pace.   If they have been slow and suddenly cannot be seen, it's likely that they are hidden from the view instead of playing a hole or two ahead.

[saevel25]

ten yards away??  thats not being hit into....

I disagree. I don't really want to hear the ball land near me. If I am putting and I hear the thud then I consider it to be hit into. If the ball rolls up, I don't really care much because a rolling ball will do no harm.

[colin007]

i see it differently...if a ball lands 30 feet away from me i do not consider it as someone hitting into me.  if it whizzes by my head on the fly?  thats getting hit into.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007

ten yards away??  thats not being hit into....

I disagree. I don't really want to hear the ball land near me. If I am putting and I hear the thud then I consider it to be hit into. If the ball rolls up, I don't really care much because a rolling ball will do no harm.

I don't see any good reason to hit that close to someone either.  That's just a one club mistake and you get the ball on your head.

If it's an accident, then yell "Fore!" and most players will understand that we sometimes misjudge our shots.

If it lands 40 yards short and rolls up to 10 yards, then I might still give him "the look", then shrug and move on,  It's no big deal, especially if it's obvious that he's just trying to keep things moving for the players following him.  If he keeps pressing, then I might react differently.

[saevel25]

If it's an accident, then yell "Fore!" and most players will understand that we sometimes misjudge our shots.

I've learned really easily from Erik that you should only yell fore if the ball is coming at the person. You can easily cause that person to run in the direction of the ball if you yell fore when the ball isn't going to near enough to hit them.

Honestly if you think about it. A shot zone can be as much as 200 to 1500 square yards. The odds of a ball hitting that person is about 0.5% to 4.5%. If you see the ball is not near them why increase that chance?

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007

ten yards away??  thats not being hit into....

I disagree. I don't really want to hear the ball land near me. If I am putting and I hear the thud then I consider it to be hit into. If the ball rolls up, I don't really care much because a rolling ball will do no harm.

I don't see any good reason to hit that close to someone either.  That's just a one club mistake and you get the ball on your head.

If it's an accident, then yell "Fore!" and most players will understand that we sometimes misjudge our shots.

If it lands 40 yards short and rolls up to 10 yards, then I might still give him "the look", then shrug and move on,  It's no big deal, especially if it's obvious that he's just trying to keep things moving for the players following him.  If he keeps pressing, then I might react differently.

I agree.   I think @colin007 cal about the definition of "hitting into."   But the main point is there is no reason to risk it.  It does not speed up the pace and it can only annoy or hurt the front group.

[David in FL]

I've learned really easily from Erik that you should only yell fore if the ball is coming at the person. You can easily cause that person to run in the direction of the ball if you yell fore when the ball isn't going to near enough to hit them.

Sorry, I disagree with that. I yell if the ball is going anywhere near someone. You never know how it's going to bounce...off what, or in what direction. Better to shout a warning and not need it than to keep quiet and be wrong. I don't want to have to explain to someone that I could've/would've yelled, but from 200 yards away, I thought my ball would miss them. I'm guessing that the personal injury lawyers out there would just love that one! ;-) FWIW, I don't think I've ever seen anyone "run" in any direction. The smart ones turn away from the shout, duck, and cover their heads.... ...The dumb ones turn towards the shout and look up, presumably trying to see the ball that may be about to cream them right between the eyes! :doh:

[saevel25]

Sorry, I disagree with that. I yell if the ball is going anywhere near someone. You never know how it's going to bounce...off what, or in what direction. Better to shout a warning and not need it than to keep quiet and be wrong.

FWIW, I don't think I've ever seen anyone "run" in any direction. The smart ones turn away from the shout, duck, and cover their heads. The dumb ones turn towards the shout and look up, presumably trying to see the ball that may be about to cream them right between the eyes!

So what if it bounces off the ground. Not going to hurt anything.

If I know they are safe I rather not take the chance of them moving towards the ball.