Rolling Back Equipment to 1980s Specs for Tour Players

[Golfingdad]

What happens when we see 450/ 500+ yard drives. 250+ yard 5 irons and more

They've already capped the tech on driver size, COR, and some of the ball tech too ... I think it's a safe bet we're currently very close to the upper limit of distance right now.  For every video on youtube of a pro hitting a 400 yard drive or more, I'll show you a hole with a severe downhill slope or helping wind, etc.  (Most times it's either 18 at Kapalua or the par 5 at Firestone - 16??)  These guys cream the ball compared to us, no doubt, but lets not play the "slippery slope" game and overestimate really how far they hit it.

Number one on tour right averages 318 yards on his drives.  (Dustin Johnson)  The tour as a whole averages 288 yards.

The vast majority of old courses now are obsolete because of the distance.

Most haven't the room to expand.

This is such a dumb red herring argument.  (That's not really directed at you, because I recognize A LOT of people like to make that argument)  There are no courses that are "obsolete" for anybody except perhaps a tiny handful of older and shorter courses that used to host major championships that now cannot because of lack of length.  But we're probably talking about 4 or 5 courses in the whole country.  And even then, they're only obsolete for a major professional tournament.

[Mike Boatright]

I can totally see this never happening after reading these I think it would be fun to just see an exhibition! Take two retired guys and have fun with it maybe even just 9 holes?

[Dancers Image]

"Back in Jack's day you had local pros and club champions playing in tournaments."  Any evidence of this?  Certainly, pre-qualifying was available prior to the all-exempt tour, (with not that many places available). The first Q-school was in 1965. The PGA Tournament Players Division was created in December 1968.

[boogielicious]

"Back in Jack's day you had local pros and club champions playing in tournaments."  Any evidence of this?  Certainly, pre-qualifying was available prior to the all-exempt tour, (with not that many places available). The first Q-school was in 1965. The PGA Tournament Players Division was created in December 1968.

There is a forum member who was one. It's a fact.

[inthehole]

Equipment is fine.

It's the ball.

SOLUTION:  Upon arrival at the PGA event, every tour pro receives 2 sleeves of balls a day.    The ball is a limited flight tour quality ball.    Every player plays the same ball, so there's no crying.

PGA ... I accept Paypal for my ideas, PM me.

[jamo]

Equipment is fine. It's the ball. SOLUTION:  Upon arrival at the PGA event, every tour pro receives 2 sleeves of balls a day.    The ball is a limited flight tour quality ball.    Every player plays the same ball, so there's no crying.   PGA ... I accept Paypal for my ideas, PM me.

Why would they do that? Why would the Tour want them to do that? Why would the USGA or Augusta or the PGA or the R&A; want to do that? Why would they ever want to deflate their product so dramatically?

[inthehole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthehole

Equipment is fine.

It's the ball.

SOLUTION:  Upon arrival at the PGA event, every tour pro receives 2 sleeves of balls a day.    The ball is a limited flight tour quality ball.    Every player plays the same ball, so there's no crying.

PGA ... I accept Paypal for my ideas, PM me.

Why would they do that? Why would the Tour want them to do that? Why would the USGA or Augusta or the PGA or the R&A; want to do that? Why would they ever want to deflate their product so dramatically?

Its just a golf ball ... the droves of amateurs are still going to buy them.   Product marketing would have to take a back seat - small price to pay if the governing bodies want to dial it back.

[David in FL]

Equipment is fine. It's the ball. SOLUTION:  Upon arrival at the PGA event, every tour pro receives 2 sleeves of balls a day.    The ball is a limited flight tour quality ball.    Every player plays the same ball, so there's no crying.   PGA ... I accept Paypal for my ideas, PM me.

Maybe they could all be "issued" the same clubs too. All the same shafts, lofts, grips.....the whole thing. No reason for anyone to play any piece of conforming equipment that's best suited to their particular game and preferences.

[Golfingdad]

Maybe they could all be "issued" the same clubs too. All the same shafts, lofts, grips.....the whole thing. No reason for anyone to play any piece of conforming equipment that's best suited to their particular game and preferences.

They did exactly this for a bowling tournament for at least a couple of years recently. They might still do it, I don't know. The difference between bowling and golf, though, is that golf is not hurting for popularity and viewership and have absolutely no reason whatsoever to tinker around with their working formula or try silly things to garner interest. Edit: here's an article explaining the purpose ... http://news.pba.com/post/2011/02/28/PBA-Mark-Roth-Plastic-Ball-Championship-Focuses-on-Player-Skill-Rather-Than-Ball-Technology.aspx

[jamo]

Its just a golf ball ... the droves of amateurs are still going to buy them.   Product marketing would have to take a back seat - small price to pay if the governing bodies want to dial it back.

I get that Titleist might like parts of it, but why the hell would the PGA Tour ever want to? Why would the USGA want to do something so extreme?

[Phil McGleno]

"Back in Jack's day you had local pros and club champions playing in tournaments."  Any evidence of this?  Certainly, pre-qualifying was available prior to the all-exempt tour, (with not that many places available). The first Q-school was in 1965. The PGA Tournament Players Division was created in December 1968.

I was a club pro and played in about 40 PGA Tour events.-Club pros made up a significant portion of the field in the Jack Nicklaus era. Heck since the PGA Tour was formed from the PGA and still licenses the name "PGA" from the PGA the PGA insisted a good chunk of their local guys played.

[iacas]

The big problem is not the equipment but how classic courses have had to be altered due to this equipment. St. Andrews and Augusta National are prime examples.

Where is it written that we must play courses for 300 years?

It's a matter of perspective. I can't hit a wedge from 140 yards and draw it back to the hole. Or hit a pitch from off the green that checks up next to the hole. Their talent means they can take advantage of the available technology. The average golfer cannot.

Some amateurs can. When the rules are the same, the game is the same. I hate bifurcation and will oppose it.

Equipment is fine.

It's the ball.

SOLUTION:  Upon arrival at the PGA event, every tour pro receives 2 sleeves of balls a day.    The ball is a limited flight tour quality ball.    Every player plays the same ball, so there's no crying.

PGA ... I accept Paypal for my ideas, PM me.

In addition to the questions asked by others: "Why would anyone (involved) want to do that?" I have to point this out: what ball would you choose? Some players like more spin. Others less. The ball is personal - why are you forcing them to share? It'll benefit some players and disadvantage other players.

[Shorty]

Equipment is fine.

It's the ball.

SOLUTION:  Upon arrival at the PGA event, every tour pro receives 2 sleeves of balls a day.    The ball is a limited flight tour quality ball.    Every player plays the same ball, so there's no crying.

PGA ... I accept Paypal for my ideas, PM me.

Great idea!

Say goodbye to tournament sponsors and TV viewers.

[MSchott]

Where is it written that we must play courses for 300 years?

No one said that Erik. My take is that golf courses should laid over the land that exists as much as possible and when the classic courses by Ross, MacKenzie, Tillinghouse, Colt, Allison and others become obsolete for PGA tournaments without major surgery then there is an issue. That's just my opinion. I'm a purist in this respect.

[iacas]

No one said that Erik. My take is that golf courses should laid over the land that exists as much as possible and when the classic courses by Ross, MacKenzie, Tillinghouse, Colt, Allison and others become obsolete for PGA tournaments without major surgery then there is an issue. That's just my opinion. I'm a purist in this respect.

It was a rhetorical question.

It's not written anywhere, and don't think it's a great argument (my opinion) that we have to concern ourselves with always being able to play courses forever. Let's see new courses. As much as I love Oakmont, if a new, better course comes along that offers a fair challenge, let's play that one!

In other words… I disagree with your opinion. I don't think we need to keep playing the old courses.

[David in FL]

No one said that Erik. My take is that golf courses should laid over the land that exists as much as possible and when the classic courses by Ross, MacKenzie, Tillinghouse, Colt, Allison and others become obsolete for PGA tournaments without major surgery then there is an issue. That's just my opinion. I'm a purist in this respect.

It's not necessarily length that has rendered many older courses inappropriate for Tour level events. A PGA Tour event is a huge logistical undertaking these days. Parking, practice facilities, spectator accessibility (on and off course), room for concessions, media support, ease of Ingres/egress, etc... The space and accessibility requirements of a modern PGA Tour event have probably done as much or more to eliminate courses fron consideration than the overall length of the course itself.

[newtogolf]

It's not necessarily length that has rendered many older courses inappropriate for Tour level events. A PGA Tour event is a huge logistical undertaking these days. Parking, practice facilities, spectator accessibility (on and off course), room for concessions, media support, ease of Ingres/egress, etc... The space and accessibility requirements of a modern PGA Tour event have probably done as much or more to eliminate courses fron consideration than the overall length of the course itself.

It's a combination, the smaller courses have even less available land to lengthen the course and still provide all the amenities that the PGA Tour requires to host a tournament.  Maybe the older courses will become better suited for the LPGA, Web.com, etc tours so they still maintain their place in golf history.

I tend to view golf courses like old sports stadiums, there were some classic stadiums that were part of the rich tradition of sports but because of age, dimensions, seating capacity, amenities were no longer feasible for the game today.  I much prefer to see the game grow, even at the expense of some of the older (and shorter) courses than for us to impede progress in the sport beyond the limitations the USGA and R&A; have already established.

[ccotenj]

I tend to view golf courses like old sports stadiums, there were some classic stadiums that were part of the rich tradition of sports but because of age, dimensions, seating capacity, amenities were no longer feasible for the game today.  I much prefer to see the game grow, even at the expense of some of the older (and shorter) courses than for us to impede progress in the sport beyond the limitations the USGA and R&A; have already established.

this is a good analogy...   let's take wrigley field for example...   the place is a dump...  the best thing they could do to it is blow it up...

and as big of a red sox fan as i am, and as many fond youthful memories i have of the place, the same goes for fenway...

and here in philly, we have good old franklin field, where you still pee up against a wall...

a question that needs to be asked:  "did they only build great golf courses 100 (or so) years ago?"...  if this is your position, then yes, i can see how you are upset that certain courses can no longer fit the needs of the "modern" tour (25,000-40,000 spectators, amenities for them, parking, transportation, etc.)...   it's easy to say "length is killing off the older classic courses", but everything else needs to be taken into consideration as well...

conversely, i believe there have been several great (and several "not so great") courses built since "the classics" were built...  so there is no dearth of high quality places for them to play...

nothing lasts forever...  i went to the us open at merion...   i wish that they hadn't hosted it...  having played the course, the us open setup was no longer "merion"...