One Ball condition- Presidents Cup

[hillis11]

I kind of understand the rule but does it say anything about team match play. How can ZJ be penalized for something he did not do. 

[Martyn W]

I kind of understand the rule but does it say anything about team match play. How can ZJ be penalized for something he did not do. 

Take a look at Rule 30, it explains when and why the side or just the player is penalized. Basically if a players breach could possibly assist his partner or disadvantage their opponents, the side will take the penalty.

Does anyone else think that one-ball rule is stupid? Does it really matter if he switched brands or model of the golf ball? 

Obviously Phil thinks it matters - that's why he changed models!

[Golfingdad]

Take a look at Rule 30, it explains when and why the side or just the player is penalized.

Oh thanks! ...

 

d. Penalty to Side

A side is penalized for a breach of any of the following by any partner:

• Rule 4 Clubs
• Rule 6-4 Caddie
• Any Local Rule or Condition of Competition for which the penalty is an adjustment to the state of the match.

 

Obviously Phil thinks it matters - that's why he changed models!

Yeah, but Phil's a dummy.  ;)  He also takes the flag out every time he's chipping or pitching from off the green.  Once yesterday, in fact, he hit one that whizzed by the hole, which likely wasn't going to fall in at that speed even if he hit it directly over the center - unless he had left the flag in.

Erik, Phil said that the Ryder Cup and PGA Championship already don't use the one-ball COC ... why wouldn't the ball companies already be tinkering with different balls to take advantage of that for those two huge events?

Edited October 9, 2015 by Golfingdad
To separate out quotes more clearly.

[Missouri Swede]

I see that the AP is reporting it as: "Mickelson uses wrong ball, US penalized 2 holes."

But I don't think that's correct.  From what I'm understanding here, it's only a 1-hole penalty.  They went from AS to 2 down because they lost the hole and had a 1 hole penalty, right?

[Golfingdad]

I see that the AP is reporting it as: "Mickelson uses wrong ball, US penalized 2 holes."

But I don't think that's correct.  From what I'm understanding here, it's only a 1-hole penalty.  They went from AS to 2 down because they lost the hole and had a 1 hole penalty, right?

Correct.  Exacerbated by the incorrect notification from the committee to Phil that caused him to pick up during the hole, when in fact, he could have kept playing and possibly halved or won the hole for his side.

[Rulesman]

Right

[saevel25]

I find it strange that they just make the rule lose of hole, move on to the next hole. I don't get why you lose a hole and then still have to play out the hole? 

[mvmac]

Erik, Phil said that the Ryder Cup and PGA Championship already don't use the one-ball COC ... why wouldn't the ball companies already be tinkering with different balls to take advantage of that for those two huge events?

I'd guess that most people don't know about it (but that could be my perspective because I didn't know about it). I had no idea that there wasn't a one ball rule at the PGA.

It also might just be a road the ball companies don't want to go down or spend resources on (for just two events).

Another reason could be that there isn't much demand from the players. They get their equipment pretty dialed in, especially their ball, and might not feel comfortable alternating balls during a round. Not everyone likes to tinker like Phil.

I find it strange that they just make the rule lose of hole, move on to the next hole. I don't get why you lose a hole and then still have to play out the hole? 

Because it's a one-hole penalty. Zach/Phil could have won the hole and come out even.

Edited October 9, 2015 by mvmac

[Golfingdad]

I find it strange that they just make the rule lose of hole, move on to the next hole. I don't get why you lose a hole and then still have to play out the hole? 

 

Because it's a one-hole penalty. Zach/Phil could have won the hole and come out even.

Right.  I think the better term was that it was a "match adjustment," so don't look at the penalty of a "loss of hole" because they didn't lose the hole [because of the penalty].  They did, coincidentally, end up losing, but that was because of regular play.

I'm still trying to figure out the reasoning behind that, though; why it isn't simply that you lose that hole, or holes, or in the case of team play, why that player isn't simply disqualified from that hole or holes.  And I think the answer might be because it's a penalty that can be discovered at any time.  You might not realize it until 3 or 4 holes later ................... and I'm still not sure about this, and I haven't sorted it all out yet, so I'm just going to stop there, but leave up my partial answer for scrutiny. 

Good explanation here: http://www.golfdigest.com/story/still-confused-by-the-phil-mickelson-ruling-lets-break-it-down-point-by-point?mbid=social_facebook

Edited October 9, 2015 by Golfingdad
Added link.

[Missouri Swede]

Interesting question on XM radio a few minutes ago:  Since it is possible to lose more than one hole during the play of a single hole in match play, then why is a match allowed to stop prior to all 18 holes?  If a player is 2 up after after 17 holes, it's still possible for him to lose two holes during the play of the 18th hole.  So why is the losing player not allowed to have play continued, since his opponent could make a mistake that could affect the outcome?

Or is it a form of conceding the remaining holes (could be played, but nobody ever does it)?

[Rulesman]

There are too many possibilities to consider. The player could incur a DQ penalty for many reasons. The RBs have obviously decided the winner has knocked out his opponent. The count of 10 has been made. It's all over, even though there's no fat lady to sing. 

[VOX]

The application of this rule is not that unusual but it is more common when a player has more that 14 clubs. If you lose the first two holes of a match and it is discovered that you have 15 clubs in your bag, you are four down after two holes.

btw - the one ball rule is in effect when the Ryder Cup is in  Europe but not when it is in the US.

Edited October 10, 2015 by VOX

[Dormie1360]

Take a look at Rule 30, it explains when and why the side or just the player is penalized. Basically if a players breach could possibly assist his partner or disadvantage their opponents, the side will take the penalty.

Obviously Phil thinks it matters - that's why he changed models!

 

In four-ball if there is an adjustment to the state of the match penalty it applies to both players because the match itself applies to both players.  There is no way to adjust the match for only one player.

 

[Martyn W]

Trivia question: what is the largest possible margin of victory in 18 hole matchplay? Without adjustments it is, of course 10 and 8. 

[ColinL]

. 

Interesting question on XM radio a few minutes ago:  Since it is possible to lose more than one hole during the play of a single hole in match play, then why is a match allowed to stop prior to all 18 holes?  If a player is 2 up after after 17 holes, it's still possible for him to lose two holes during the play of the 18th hole.  So why is the losing player not allowed to have play continued, since his opponent could make a mistake that could affect the outcome?

Or is it a form of conceding the remaining holes (could be played, but nobody ever does it)?

It is simply the nature of the game and how you win it:

A match is won when one side leads by a number of holes greater than the number remaining to be played. 

If I’m 3 up on you after 16, I’m going for a self-congratulatory beer.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2015 by ColinL

[rogolf]

Trivia question: what is the largest possible margin of victory in 18 hole matchplay? Without adjustments it is, of course 10 and 8. 

Don't know the complete answer, but I'll start with just Rule 4. The player begins his round with 15 clubs, one of which is non-conforming.  This comes to light after the second hole.  He did not make a stroke with the non-conforming club.  On the first hole, he adjusts his 3 wood for his second shot; this is discovered by the opponent during play of the second hole.  This player loses both of the first two holes.

Here's my reckoning of the status of the match after two holes:

lost 2 holes             2 down

starting round with more than 14 clubs         4 down

carrying, but not using non-conforming club      6 down

adjusting club           8 down

[Martyn W]

Don't know the complete answer, but I'll start with just Rule 4. The player begins his round with 15 clubs, one of which is non-conforming.  This comes to light after the second hole.  He did not make a stroke with the non-conforming club.  On the first hole, he adjusts his 3 wood for his second shot; this is discovered by the opponent during play of the second hole.  This player loses both of the first two holes.

Here's my reckoning of the status of the match after two holes:

lost 2 holes             2 down

starting round with more than 14 clubs         4 down

carrying, but not using non-conforming club      6 down

adjusting club           8 down

Throw in a few CoC....