Clueless Groundskeepers - Share your stories

[boogielicious]

Yesterday I was playing one of my favorite courses. And let me start by saying that this course does a great job keeping the course nice. But sometimes the grounds crew seems oblivious to the fact that people actually play golf on the course.

There is one hole that I find rather difficult, a 380 yard par 4 with water 225 off the tee and only a 15 yard gap between the water and cart path/trees on the left. I have to use a 3 or 5 wood at most and aim left center of the fairway to keep it away from the trees on the right.. I usually overdraw it  left,   (my miss). It was around 50F and not much wind. I tee up the 5 wood and hit about the best 5 wood I ever hit. It flies high with ever so slight a draw. As I am admiring my shot, I spy a work cart moving across the fairway. The guy driving isn't even looking our way. I yell fore! He looks up. The ball somehow misses his head by no more than 3 feet. He flinches a bit then keeps driving.

We all stand on the tee saying, ""WTF was this guy thinking driving across a fairway without ever looking at the tee?"

Thank goodness it didn't hit him for two reasons. First, I don't want to hurt anyone. But more importantly, it ends up at the 150 mark in the narrow gap between the pond and the cart path, by far my farthest 5 wood ever! 

[mcanadiens]

Grounds crew? You have a grounds crew? Fancy boy.

Seriously, I'm sure the courses I play have somebody doing something. Not being an early golfer, I rarely ever see them.

[Patch]

I have had a ( very ) few workers cross in front of me. Once my ball is in the air there is not much that can be done except to hope the ball misses them. I have had more golfers walk out in front of me than workers. So far so good as I have not hit one as yet. 99% of the time the workers will look before the leap. That 1% will learn the hard way.

Where I see the most problems is with the guy who cuts the pins on odd shaped, large greens. The ones where the greens are shaped in such a way that even though your ball is on the green, the pin is located in a spot that can't be reached using just a  putter. Something like a kidney shaped green. Or, a green with a bush, tree, or  a bunker in the middle of it. You might decide to  use a wedge to save a stroke which of course causes damage to the green. 

Myself, depending on how my game is going, I will usually take the extra putt to get around the problem. 

Yes , I know as golfers we should be more precise with our approach shots, but as amateurs that is not always the case. 

 

[SavvySwede]

1 hour ago, Patch said:

I have had a ( very ) few workers cross in front of me. Once my ball is in the air there is not much that can be done except to hope the ball misses them. I have had more golfers walk out in front of me than workers. So far so good as I have not hit one as yet. 99% of the time the workers will look before the leap. That 1% will learn the hard way.

Where I see the most problems is with the guy who cuts the pins on odd shaped, large greens. The ones where the greens are shaped in such a way that even though your ball is on the green, the pin is located in a spot that can't be reached using just a  putter. Something like a kidney shaped green. Or, a green with a bush, tree, or  a bunker in the middle of it. You might decide to  use a wedge to save a stroke which of course causes damage to the green. 

Myself, depending on how my game is going, I will usually take the extra putt to get around the problem. 

Yes , I know as golfers we should be more precise with our approach shots, but as amateurs that is not always the case. 

 

That's not the guy cutting the holes fault, that was the course designer's decision. A good pin position only has to be in an area where the slopes around it give you a fair putt in the makeable range. On the green but 100ft away doesn't entitle one to a clear line.

[DaveP043]

1 minute ago, SavvySwede said:

That's not the guy cutting the holes fault, that was the course designer's decision. A good pin position only has to be in an area where the slopes around it give you a fair putt in the makeable range. On the green but 100ft away doesn't entitle one to a clear line.

I agree entirely.  We have a number of greens where slopes make it nearly impossible to get to certain pin positions from certain other parts of the green.  Knowing the course, sometimes its better to be off the green but on the proper side than to be on the green, on the wrong side.  Its not necessarily fair, and some people may not consider it proper design, but golf isn't meant to be fair.  Having said that, on Saturday is our annual "superintendant's revenge" event.  I imagine we'll see lots of pins on knobs, slopes, any place that's hard to get to.  

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Grounds crew? You have a grounds crew? Fancy boy.

Seriously, I'm sure the courses I play have somebody doing something. Not being an early golfer, I rarely ever see them.

Yeah, real golfers maintain their own courses!

 

3 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Yesterday I was playing one of my favorite courses. And let me start by saying that this course does a great job keeping the course nice. But sometimes the grounds crew seems oblivious to the fact that people actually play golf on the course.

There is one hole that I find rather difficult, a 380 yard par 4 with water 225 off the tee and only a 15 yard gap between the water and cart path/trees on the left. I have to use a 3 or 5 wood at most and aim left center of the fairway to keep it away from the trees on the right.. I usually overdraw it  left,   (my miss). It was around 50F and not much wind. I tee up the 5 wood and hit about the best 5 wood I ever hit. It flies high with ever so slight a draw. As I am admiring my shot, I spy a work cart moving across the fairway. The guy driving isn't even looking our way. I yell fore! He looks up. The ball somehow misses his head by no more than 3 feet. He flinches a bit then keeps driving.

We all stand on the tee saying, ""WTF was this guy thinking driving across a fairway without ever looking at the tee?"

Thank goodness it didn't hit him for two reasons. First, I don't want to hurt anyone. But more importantly, it ends up at the 150 mark in the narrow gap between the pond and the cart path, by far my farthest 5 wood ever! 

Every morning, the groundskeepers are doing stuff. It's always the same crowd of golfers that goes that early in the mornings anyway. They get to know particular golfers and know their misses. Whenever I get to the approaches or tee boxes all the grounds men gather in the middle of my fairway or green.

So, one time I was making my approach on a par 5 from another fairway. I have a 7i in hand and 150 yards to the flag. I hit a perfect shot right to the flag. I was eagerly looking forward to a <6 foot birdie putt. The grounds keeper moves the hole 75 feet to the front of the green. On another occasion, I hit my shot to about 100 feet from the pin just off the green. The grounds keeper moved the pin about 6 feet from my shot and I got a birdie. It kind of evens out. . .

 

[rkim291968]

The only issue I have with our ground crew is that they punch holes without regards to playability.   The course changes holes every day.  Often holes are on top of a mound, 6 - 7 feet from 1st cut, in ball collection area, etc..   Either the crew does not play golf (most likely) or they have ill intention.

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

The only issue I have with our ground crew is that they punch holes without regards to playability.   The course changes holes every day.  Often holes are on top of a mound, 6 - 7 feet from 1st cut, in ball collection area, etc..   Either the crew does not play golf (most likely) or they have ill intention.

At our courses, some are really good golfers and some not so good, but they all golf. Putting a hole on top of a mound or the crest of a tier slope is usually what they do before tournaments. It makes for extremely interesting putts. We even have some greens where if the pin goes on these features you can expect a three putt if you don't land right below the hole.

I doubt that even the good golfing grounds men have ill intention, but they certainly make life interesting.

[dkolo]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Yeah, real golfers maintain their own courses!

 

Every morning, the groundskeepers are doing stuff. It's always the same crowd of golfers that goes that early in the mornings anyway. They get to know particular golfers and know their misses. Whenever I get to the approaches or tee boxes all the grounds men gather in the middle of my fairway or green.

So, one time I was making my approach on a par 5 from another fairway. I have a 7i in hand and 150 yards to the flag. I hit a perfect shot right to the flag. I was eagerly looking forward to a <6 foot birdie putt. The grounds keeper moves the hole 75 feet to the front of the green. On another occasion, I hit my shot to about 100 feet from the pin just off the green. The grounds keeper moved the pin about 6 feet from my shot and I got a birdie. It kind of evens out. . .

 

That's hilarious. What's the actual rules take on that? 

[DrvFrShow]

We have a groundskeeper who does sadistic pin placements every now and then during the summer when the greens are fast and firm. Hole just on the flat spot above the crest of the two tier or below where it flattens - that usually yields three putts. The "no birdies today" pin placement where the pin is tucked behind two tall cedar trees. If you can get on the par 5 green you have a shot at it - but you're hitting your second shot from 200 yds, and it must land on the green otherwise you're in water or a bunker. Even if you make it you have a 30 - 40 ft breaking putt. If you lay up left you have a shot at a birdie if you hit a close 50 yd lob shot.... but you have to aim for the rough left of the fairway for that one.

What gets me is when they do this stuff like tuck pins behind bunkers on a Friday for the weekend and wonder why play is slow on the course on Saturday and Sunday. Yes we know people should play for the center of the green, but hackers pin hunt.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, dkolo said:

That's hilarious. What's the actual rules take on that? 

Not sure, but it was pretty funny.

24 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

We have a groundskeeper who does sadistic pin placements every now and then during the summer when the greens are fast and firm. Hole just on the flat spot above the crest of the two tier or below where it flattens - that usually yields three putts. The "no birdies today" pin placement where the pin is tucked behind two tall cedar trees. If you can get on the par 5 green you have a shot at it - but you're hitting your second shot from 200 yds, and it must land on the green otherwise you're in water or a bunker. Even if you make it you have a 30 - 40 ft breaking putt. If you lay up left you have a shot at a birdie if you hit a close 50 yd lob shot.... but you have to aim for the rough left of the fairway for that one.

What gets me is when they do this stuff like tuck pins behind bunkers on a Friday for the weekend and wonder why play is slow on the course on Saturday and Sunday. Yes we know people should play for the center of the green, but hackers pin hunt.

Yes, it does seem kind of random, actually. I suppose it kind of depends upon the mood of the grounds keeper doing pin placements for the day.

It's not like I see them with a notepad and measuring tapes setting up the pins. . .

[Jeremie Boop]

3 hours ago, rkim291968 said:

The only issue I have with our ground crew is that they punch holes without regards to playability.   The course changes holes every day.  Often holes are on top of a mound, 6 - 7 feet from 1st cut, in ball collection area, etc..   Either the crew does not play golf (most likely) or they have ill intention.

 

23 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

We have a groundskeeper who does sadistic pin placements every now and then during the summer when the greens are fast and firm. Hole just on the flat spot above the crest of the two tier or below where it flattens - that usually yields three putts. The "no birdies today" pin placement where the pin is tucked behind two tall cedar trees. If you can get on the par 5 green you have a shot at it - but you're hitting your second shot from 200 yds, and it must land on the green otherwise you're in water or a bunker. Even if you make it you have a 30 - 40 ft breaking putt. If you lay up left you have a shot at a birdie if you hit a close 50 yd lob shot.... but you have to aim for the rough left of the fairway for that one.

What gets me is when they do this stuff like tuck pins behind bunkers on a Friday for the weekend and wonder why play is slow on the course on Saturday and Sunday. Yes we know people should play for the center of the green, but hackers pin hunt.

There is a hole where I play that they love to put the pin where it's next to impossible to get close to, either via approach or putting. You almost can't stop the ball anywhere near the hole on a lag putt. Once it gets within a few feet it's on a downhill slope that sends the ball at least 6-8 feet if you are lucky. Even then, a putt up the hill has to make it passed the hole by a few feet or it's coming back to or passed where you started. They don't always put the pin in these places but when they do it's pretty infuriating. 

[possumkiwi]

30 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

What gets me is when they do this stuff like tuck pins behind bunkers on a Friday for the weekend and wonder why play is slow on the course on Saturday and Sunday. Yes we know people should play for the center of the green, but hackers pin hunt.

Yeah, that's stupid.  Happens at my course as well.

[SavvySwede]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Not sure, but it was pretty funny.

Yes, it does seem kind of random, actually. I suppose it kind of depends upon the mood of the grounds keeper doing pin placements for the day.

It's not like I see them with a notepad and measuring tapes setting up the pins. . .

I actually have to pace off all the pin locations when I'm cutting the holes. We use ezLocator software which automatically selects pin positions for us in such a way that you never see the same combinations of pins twice. It also knows how to vary the pins to prevent traffic issues, saving the greens from wear and tear. Still requires some judgement on the part of the groundskeeper but infinitely better than just telling him to stick it somewhere in the front third of the green.

[rkim291968]

2 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

 

What gets me is when they do this stuff like tuck pins behind bunkers on a Friday for the weekend and wonder why play is slow on the course on Saturday and Sunday. Yes we know people should play for the center of the green, but hackers pin hunt.

This^      The sadistic pin placement at my club is often noticed on Saturday when 5 hour round pace is common.

[Lihu]

59 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

I actually have to pace off all the pin locations when I'm cutting the holes. We use ezLocator software which automatically selects pin positions for us in such a way that you never see the same combinations of pins twice. It also knows how to vary the pins to prevent traffic issues, saving the greens from wear and tear. Still requires some judgement on the part of the groundskeeper but infinitely better than just telling him to stick it somewhere in the front third of the green.

You and your course at least attempt to keep the course ratings true, and that's very admirable.

On all the courses near me (other than the private clubs), it's a crap shoot if the course ratings match the scorecard. For example, I just got off the course the other day and a 20-ish year old asked me in an almost angry tone "Did you break 90?". Thinking back on the round the greens were fast (anywhere from 9 to 12+) and unpredictable. The pins were placed in funny places, and the tee boxes were scattered all over the place. The "6800" yard tees were probably closer to 7000+. Add to that the colder, drier, windier weather. So, I guess shooting 89 was not bad. If I had to guess, the course probably played a couple (maybe a few) strokes harder.

I have to admit, if you and your course are that serious about pin placements, it's probably a really good course. My home course probably averages 73/131 on the blue tees, but can probably go anywhere from 71/125 to 74/134.

[bkuehn1952]

My concern often is the grounds people who seem to think we are a lot better at aiming or over estimate their ability to get out of the way.  If you want us to play through, great.  Just get out of the way or take a moment to hide behind something sturdy.

[imsys0042]

25+ years ago when I was a caddy.   Greens-keeper put fertilizer or some type of treatment on the greens and expected it to rain overnight.  So instead of instructing the grounds crew to water the greens in the evening, he told them not too.   It didn't rain and 6 of the greens were badly burned/damaged in some areas.   Oops.