Bunker penalty stroke?

[No Mulligans]

Interesting thread.  This got me thinking... Say your ball is in a bunker and there is a second bunker (bunker 2) right near by.  Can you take a practice swing in bunker 2 including touching the sand?

[DaveP043]

24 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

Interesting thread.  This got me thinking... Say your ball is in a bunker and there is a second bunker (bunker 2) right near by.  Can you take a practice swing in bunker 2 including touching the sand?

Rule 13-4 prohibits you from testing the condition of the hazard, or any similar hazard.  I'd say the answer is no.

[DrvFrShow]

On my home course we have a really penal fairway bunker that I wish one of two things would go - the bunker or the tree some idiot planted in line with the bunker and advancing the ball up the fairway. When I started playing golf three years ago the tree was young and it was an 8 iron escape over the top of the tree. Now it is a lob wedge out onto the fairway. 

Well, last year I hit a 9 iron out of the bunker and it hit the top of the tree, ricocheted out of bounds, and I slammed the club in the bunker. Now I had to take a S&D and drop inside the bunker again, and chip out onto the fairway since there is now no longer any way to advance the ball from that position. The ball was not in the bunker at the time, but had to be dropped in the bunker. Did I deserve another penalty stroke?

[Lihu]

3 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Where exactly was the ball when you grounded the club?

If it was outside the bunker, did you lift the club before the ball rolled back in?

I don't remember, but most likely "yes". . .

[Dormie1360]

1 hour ago, DrvFrShow said:

On my home course we have a really penal fairway bunker that I wish one of two things would go - the bunker or the tree some idiot planted in line with the bunker and advancing the ball up the fairway. When I started playing golf three years ago the tree was young and it was an 8 iron escape over the top of the tree. Now it is a lob wedge out onto the fairway. 

Well, last year I hit a 9 iron out of the bunker and it hit the top of the tree, ricocheted out of bounds, and I slammed the club in the bunker. Now I had to take a S&D and drop inside the bunker again, and chip out onto the fairway since there is now no longer any way to advance the ball from that position. The ball was not in the bunker at the time, but had to be dropped in the bunker. Did I deserve another penalty stroke?

No penalty other than stroke and distance, see the post I copied you on earlier.  Once your ball is out of the bunker, you can do whatever with your club.  You still could be liable for a fine from the tour for slamming your club, however.  

Edited December 15, 2015 by Dormie1360

[Missouri Swede]

5 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

Interesting thread.  This got me thinking... Say your ball is in a bunker and there is a second bunker (bunker 2) right near by.  Can you take a practice swing in bunker 2 including touching the sand?

 

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Rule 13-4 prohibits you from testing the condition of the hazard, or any similar hazard.  I'd say the answer is no.

Hmmm. After I hit a ball out of the bunker and it's safely on the green, may I make practice swings in the bunker, hitting the sand? (Or practice swings in a bunker near the green--say I'm already on the green, and I'd otherwise be standing around waiting for fellow-competitors to make their shots?)

[Dave325]

8 hours ago, Rulesman said:

They are unlikely to change this one as was only introduced a few years ago.

Ah, I understand, but a two stroke penalty seems a bit severe.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Missouri Swede said:

Hmmm. After I hit a ball out of the bunker and it's safely on the green, may I make practice swings in the bunker, hitting the sand? (Or practice swings in a bunker near the green--say I'm already on the green, and I'd otherwise be standing around waiting for fellow-competitors to make their shots?)

If it's a green side bunker your playing partners might not like the distractions of you throwing sand around especially onto the green. That's all I can think of because chipping and putting practice is permissible once everyone has holed out and you are waiting for the tee. As long as pace of play is not interrupted and not distracting to your playing partners or opponents. (rare situation unless playing alone on an empty course, I guess?)

[Missouri Swede]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

If it's a green side bunker your playing partners might not like the distractions of you throwing sand around especially onto the green. That's all I can think of because chipping and putting practice is permissible once everyone has holed out and you are waiting for the tee. As long as pace of play is not interrupted and not distracting to your playing partners or opponents. (rare situation unless playing alone on an empty course, I guess?)

But the rules about putting and chipping refer to using a ball.  I'm asking about just a swing--no ball.

Quote

Rule 7-2

Note 1: A practice swing is not a practice stroke and may be taken at any place, provided the player does not breach the Rules. 

 

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

But the rules about putting and chipping refer to using a ball.  I'm asking about just a swing--no ball.

My answer can be for ball or no ball.

I'm picturing someone practicing his sand shots in a green side bunker while everyone else is trying to get on the green presumably chipping onto the green. That could be a little bit annoying, and against the rules (7-2). So, the only possibility is to practice after everyone holes out and is waiting for the tee box, but not in a hazard. Then you need to insure you are not preventing someone from making their approach shots to the green (6-7).

I do a lot of practice rounds by myself on an empty course just so I can practice stuff like this, and play all the "impossible" low percentage shots as well.

 

Quote

A practice stroke may never be made from a hazard during a round (Rule 7-2) and the player must not unduly delay play because they are practicing (Rule 6-7). Strokes made in continuing the play of a hole, the result of which has been decided, are not practice strokes. Any other practice stroke made during a round that has not been suspended incurs a penalty of two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play (Rule 7-2).

Quote

7-2. During Round
A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole.
Between the play of two holes a player must not make a practice stroke,
except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:
a. the putting green of the hole last played,
b. any practice putting green, or
c. the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round,
provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly
delay play (Rule 6-7).

 

[ColinL]

7 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

 

Hmmm. After I hit a ball out of the bunker and it's safely on the green, may I make practice swings in the bunker, hitting the sand? (Or practice swings in a bunker near the green--say I'm already on the green, and I'd otherwise be standing around waiting for fellow-competitors to make their shots?)

The simple answer to your question is yes, you can make a practice swing in a bunker provided your ball is not in it or in a similar one.

 

[DaveP043]

7 hours ago, ColinL said:

The simple answer to your question is yes, you can make a practice swing in a bunker provided your ball is not in it or in a similar one.

 

I'm on the same page as @ColinL, you can take practice swings anywhere, subject to the restrictions when your ball is in a bunker.  I suggest you be careful not to annoy your playing partners, make sure you rake your entire practice area when you're done, and don't hold up play.

[DrvFrShow]

Quote

7-2. During Round
A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole.
Between the play of two holes a player must not make a practice stroke,
except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:
a. the putting green of the hole last played,
b. any practice putting green, or
c. the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round,
provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly
delay play (Rule 6-7).

But if no one is behind me and I'm playing alone, my pro told me to hit extra balls out of bunkers and take extra swings in bunkers practicing hitting that line. There's no USGA official watching so who cares as long as I don't hold up play? Especially in 2016 when these rounds can't be reported anyway. I'd say in 2016 if you're playing a solo round, make a practice swing in a bunker, too, if you want. 

[Lihu]

20 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

Especially in 2016 when these rounds can't be reported anyway. I'd say in 2016 if you're playing a solo round, make a practice swing in a bunker, too, if you want. 

Can't wait until 2016, it'll justify playing more rounds without counting them.

OTOH, it might give other members in your club more incentive to rush to get on the same tee box as you for "casual" rounds and make every one of your rounds count?

So, what did you say was your "club" handicap, again? 

[Martyn W]

On 12/15/2015 at 0:50 PM, Lihu said:

Yes, he gets the penalty, because the club hit the sand with the ball in the same bunker as a result of a swing (flunging it?!?). It would be less penal to count it as a shot, as opposed to grounding the club. Personally, I wouldn't let him know until after quite a few beers. . .

That is not correct - there is no penalty. The prohibition is against touching the sand with a club - this means the club is in your hand. As others have pointed out you may place, or even toss your club(s) into a bunker.

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, Martyn W said:

That is not correct - there is no penalty. The prohibition is against touching the sand with a club - this means the club is in your hand. As others have pointed out you may place, or even toss your club(s) into a bunker.

Yes, I stand corrected. Maybe I'm being a little too conservative in certain situations, and should revisit the rules book. . .