Are 'The Voice' and "American Idol' destroying good singing?

[dak4n6]

I'm a musician for over 40 years and have played and sung in many bands over the years. I was just watching The Voice, and one of the contestants sang 'Climb Every Mountain" (from the Sound of Music). He butchered the song IMO. To be fair, he had a wonderful voice, but he ruined the song by throwing his wonderful voice all over the place. Eg., "Climb every mountain...." the end of the word "mountain" should be a held single note with some nice vibrato, but he went up and down the scale and put about 458 notes into what was supposed to be one held note. This crap has got to stop.

Another contestant did exactly the same thing with "O Holy Night". A beautiful, solemn song that can showcase the discipline, control, and clarity in the singers voice exactly through the simple structure and many plain held notes. But no, this guy had to make it into some R&B/soul/hip-hop version..I think it sounded horrible.

I think these shows are permeating into pop culture and are starting to make that kind of singing the norm, and it is killing pop music. Imagine if Tom Petty auditioned for The Voice? He wouldn't even make the first cut, but he is one of the best Rock vocalists ever...

[Pretzel]

On the contrary, I would argue there's a reason you've pretty much never heard of a large majority of singers who won those contests. That singing style obviously doesn't appeal to enough consumers, or the record labels don't like it enough to put enough money into it, for them to succeed afterwords even though it may sound fancy at first. 

Most contestants are likely picked due to their background story as much as they're picked for their voice anyways: it is a reality TV show after all. 

[dak4n6]

I don't know Pretzel, a decent number of these winners have 'made it' in pop music. Kelly Clarkson, Daugherty, Carrie Underwood...but the point isn't the success rate. The point is I have noticed over the years the infiltration of this style into pop music of throwing notes all over the place, rather than letting the natural qualities and simple phrasing of one's voice shine through. Here are a few very disparate examples: Janis and Karen Carpenter. How about Patsy Cline? Sting never did that crap. I saw Audioslave live once and Chris could scream a single note that would give you chills.  They did not throw their voices all over the place. When they held a note, it made your hair stand on end....

[Golfingdad]

22 minutes ago, thug the bunny said:

I don't know Pretzel, a decent number of these winners have 'made it' in pop music. Kelly Clarkson, Daugherty, Carrie Underwood...but the point isn't the success rate. The point is I have noticed over the years the infiltration of this style into pop music of throwing notes all over the place, rather than letting the natural qualities and simple phrasing of one's voice shine through. Here are a few very disparate examples: Janis and Karen Carpenter. How about Patsy Cline? Sting never did that crap. I saw Audioslave live once and Chris could scream a single note that would give you chills.  They did not throw their voices all over the place. When they held a note, it made your hair stand on end....

This isn't a new phenomenon though.  Over singing predates reality tv by a large amount of time.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

On the contrary, I would argue there's a reason you've pretty much never heard of a large majority of singers who won those contests. That singing style obviously doesn't appeal to enough consumers, or the record labels don't like it enough to put enough money into it, for them to succeed afterwords even though it may sound fancy at first. 

Most contestants are likely picked due to their background story as much as they're picked for their voice anyways: it is a reality TV show after all. 

I think it's just tough to stay relevant. Also the record labels are taking a huge hit because of the independent label music producing right now.  With the creation of Youtube, and other music outlets people are able to gain exposure besides the radio and selling CD's. You don't need to get a record label to get exposure anymore. Honestly ask do you actually buy CD's anymore, maybe except just because you like to have CD's? I haven't bought a CD in years. 

You can see how these shows are trying to take music and add reality TV to it to make the music labels relevant again. 

12 minutes ago, thug the bunny said:

I don't know Pretzel, a decent number of these winners have 'made it' in pop music. Kelly Clarkson, Daugherty, Carrie Underwood...but the point isn't the success rate. The point is I have noticed over the years the infiltration of this style into pop music of throwing notes all over the place, rather than letting the natural qualities and simple phrasing of one's voice shine through. Here are a few very disparate examples: Janis and Karen Carpenter. How about Patsy Cline? Sting never did that crap. I saw Audioslave live once and Chris could scream a single note that would give you chills.  They did not throw their voices all over the place. When they held a note, it made your hair stand on end....

Yes music has become mostly a science of laying down a synthetic beat and having other people write your lyrics. Also the fact that the average reading level for lyrics is 3rd to 4th grade doesn't help. Basically it's repeatable dribble. Gone are the days of actually telling a story. Look at Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, Paul McCartney, John Lennon. 

I think the music industry has found that people will listen to music just because of its beat. Honestly I could turn on a pop radio station and not even hear the lyrics. 

As for the OP, I wouldn't say it's destroying good singing. Though I would say that it's setting an image that you have to be vocally perfect instead of having personality. With these voices they just try to fit premade songs and lyrics to them.  I think that is one big issue. Bob Dylan wouldn't make it past the first round of American Idol.  It isn't like these people can't sing. I think the issue with music today is the lack of artistry and personality. 

[dak4n6]

Good point Gdad. Yes, oversinging has existed since when the first caveman started bellowing his tribe's hunting song off key at the top off his lungs.

However, it is now becoming the norm, and that's what disturbs me...

[billchao]

I blame Mariah for the voice throwing and Christina carried that torch. These two women are obviously very talented, but voice throwing is actually a way to mask inferior technique. Holding a single note is hard.

I also don't these shows seriously, but I believe it's indicative of singers adapting to how the pop music scene has changed rather than the other way around. I don't like pop music today, but it doesn't matter since it's always changing.

[Golfingdad]

3 minutes ago, thug the bunny said:

Good point Gdad. Yes, oversinging has existed since when the first caveman started bellowing his tribe's hunting song off key at the top off his lungs.

However, it is now becoming the norm, and that's what disturbs me...

I don't think it's really the norm though ... Sure you see it when you watch those shows but when you're not watching those shows, you're seeing very few of those contestants ... Besides the three you mentioned in your first post (Clarkson, daughtry and underwood) they are pretty much 100% irrelevant.

And @saevel25, the pop music with synth beats and singers who don't write their own songs has also been around for many many years.

[nevets88]

If there are kids singing like this today, we're okay.

 

[dak4n6]

4 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I don't think it's really the norm though ... Sure you see it when you watch those shows but when you're not watching those shows, you're seeing very few of those contestants ... Besides the three you mentioned in your first post (Clarkson, daughtry and underwood) they are pretty much 100% irrelevant.

And @saevel25, the pop music with synth beats and singers who don't write their own songs has also been around for many many years.

But IMO it is leaking in to our pop culture. Now, I listen to all genres, from classical to indie to blues to pop, and as a part time pop listener (I love Taylor) I have definitely heard this influence building over time - I am old. I agree with bill that Mariah and Aguilera and others kind of accelerated this style.

[No Mulligans]

Harry Connick Jr. (American Idol judge) has often criticized contestants for over singing.  His interactions with the other judges can be pretty entertaining.

 

[dak4n6]

Harry is right on.

As an old guitar player, I learned a long time ago that unless you are Al DiMiola, Paco DeLucea, or Joe Bonamosa, it's not about how many notes you can fit into a measure of music. It's about the QUALITY of the notes you can fit into that measure. That is an old established rule of music, but it seems to be on the verge of getting overruled.

Edited December 16, 2015 by thug the bunny

[saevel25]

45 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I don't think it's really the norm though ... Sure you see it when you watch those shows but when you're not watching those shows, you're seeing very few of those contestants ... Besides the three you mentioned in your first post (Clarkson, daughtry and underwood) they are pretty much 100% irrelevant.

And @saevel25, the pop music with synth beats and singers who don't write their own songs has also been around for many many years.

Just seems like it's more so than it use to be. 

[Golfingdad]

34 minutes ago, thug the bunny said:

Harry is right on.

As an old guitar player, I learned a long time ago that unless you are Al DiMiola, Paco DeLucea, or Joe Bonamosa, it's not about how many notes you can fit into a measure of music. It's about the QUALITY of the notes you can fit into that measure. That is an old established rule of music, but it seems to be on the verge of getting overruled.

I definitely agree with this. 

 

11 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Just seems like it's more so than it use to be. 

Yeah, maybe you guys are right.  But I think it's also possible that this just falls into the same category as the prevalence of celebrities getting in trouble for saying dumb things.  They've always said dumb things, but because of the technology of social media, we see it more.  I imagine that there have always been a plethora of mediocre singers but we are just hearing more of them because of these shows.

So not necessarily more, just more visible.  Perhaps.

Doesn't matter though as there are still good singers and good songwriters out there as well. :)

[dak4n6]

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

I definitely agree with this. 

 

Yeah, maybe you guys are right.  But I think it's also possible that this just falls into the same category as the prevalence of celebrities getting in trouble for saying dumb things.  They've always said dumb things, but because of the technology of social media, we see it more.  I imagine that there have always been a plethora of mediocre singers but we are just hearing more of them because of these shows.

So not necessarily more, just more visible.  Perhaps.

Doesn't matter though as there are still good singers and good songwriters out there as well. :)

Thanks GD for putting things into perspective! I think you're right - media these days magnifies everything. I am constantly amazed by one of my step kids saying, 'Did you see the video of the guy pulling a bugger out of his nose and sticking it up his butt?', and I'm like No, and they're like 'Really? Everyone has seen that one'. Mass media these days just spreads everything, good, bad, and indifferent.....

But, it's still a question of what style are they promoting? What the heck is wrong with a held note? Is there something wrong with holding one note?  It is a beautiful thing...

[boogielicious]

I agree with you @dak4n6. It has worked its way into the national anthem at sporting events too. Makes me crazy. Just sing the song the way it was written! A truly great singer doesn't need to do that. They can make one note sound incredible. 

It is the same way for me when an artist I like doesn't sing their hit song the way they recorded it. I call this "Kenny Logginsing" a song. I saw him a couple of times in the '80s and completely changed the melody of certain songs. Maybe he was bored or something but it mad me crazy.

 

[nevets88]

Technology punched the music industry business model in the gut but a couple of things emerged that counters the lowest common denominator "style" of musicality @dak4n6 mentions. It's easier for talented musicians who would otherwise not get any exposure to get lots of eyeballs via the internet. But the rub is that there's too much to sift through. However, the long tail distribution allows artists to only need a small dedicated following to make a living. 

You have your YouTubes, Patreons, Soundclouds, Bandcamps to find and develop a lot of super talented musicians who aren't gunning for the big hit and stay loyal to the style they developed that's true to them, damn what everyone else is doing.

 

[boogielicious]

40 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

 

You have your YouTubes, Patreons, Soundclouds, Bandcamps to find and develop a lot of super talented musicians who aren't gunning for the big hit and stay loyal to the style they developed that's true to them, damn what everyone else is doing.