Arnold Palmer

[Missouri Swede]

5 minutes ago, ppine said:

He is still with Winnie.

She died in 1999.  He remarried in 2005.

[Gunther]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't know about that.

1.  Tiger led the way with endorsements contracts across all of sport - he was for awhile the single most widely known athlete around the world.

2.  Tiger increased U.S. golf participation, particularly among athletes. He increased global awareness for golf, too, extending his reach well beyond the U.S.

3.  I think that says more about how lousy the British Open was for a long time than Arnold Palmer.

4.  Nobody really cares that much about the Senior Tour these days.

5.  Tiger is not as old, and is still playing. Even as such he's done a heck of a lot through his foundation. Maybe he'll buy Golf Channel some day… you don't know. Seems unfair to count something Arnie did when he was, what, 60 or so?

6. Tiger started the TWF.

7.  And, Tiger has had a large impact on purse size.

Does that "touch" Arnie's accomplishments? Probably not, particularly with the Golf Channel "bonus" item. But it gets closer than you'd think, otherwise.

Erik, Tiger cannot hold a candle to what Arnie did for the game of golf.  Nothing you cited there rises above what I cited, not 1 thing.  And then to take TGC out, which in inself, outstrips all of what Tiger did for the game.  C'mon, I know you're a fan boy but let's get real, if only for a minute.

[Gunther]

22 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Erik, Tiger cannot hold a candle to what Arnie did for the game of golf.  Nothing you cited there rises above what I cited, not 1 thing.  And then to take TGC out, which in inself, outstrips all of what Tiger did for the game.  C'mon, I know you're a fan boy but let's get real, if only for a minute.

Before you respond, I'll add another few tidbits:

1.  Arnie STARTED endorsements for golfers, no one did it before him.

2.  Arnie's tournament win results in a 3-year exemption, opposed to 2 for a regular tour win.

3.  Arnie started sports marketing, IMG.  Without him, maybe Hank Aaron would have, but Arnold began all of that.

Tiger's biggest, most long-lasting impact on golf is and probably will remain, the rise of the Asian golfer.  That's really it.  Not to say his TWF is un-impactful.  It most certainly is, to those privileged few who get to particpate.  But, in terms of a footprint, Arnie and Jack are far, far ahead of Tiger.

Hopefully, Tiger rises to that level but I'm not sure that's where his passion will take him.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Gunther

[Golfingdad]

On March 18, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Gunther said:

It's debatable, I suppose but in my mind Arnold has been far more impactful.  

Rory mentioned it in his presser:

1.  Arnold led the way with endorsements contracts, these guys are making a fortune these days.

2.  He increased US golf participation

3.  He made British Open participation the norm

4.  He essentially started the Senior Tour

5.  He did start The Golf Channel

6.  His NICU in Orlando and his many other charitable endeavors have been immeasurable in terms of lives saved and helping others.

7.  And, hes had an impact on purse size.  

Really no comparison.  Tiger not been around long enough.

 

43 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Erik, Tiger cannot hold a candle to what Arnie did for the game of golf.  Nothing you cited there rises above what I cited, not 1 thing.  And then to take TGC out, which in inself, outstrips all of what Tiger did for the game.  C'mon, I know you're a fan boy but let's get real, if only for a minute.

So what happened between Friday morning and today that lead you to jump from a reasonable and polite position of "it's debatable, I suppose" to a derogatory "get real, you're just a fanboy" position?  What's changed in those 60 hours?

[Gunther]

Just now, Golfingdad said:

 

So what happened between Friday morning and today that lead you to jump from a reasonable and polite position of "it's debatable, I suppose" to a derogatory "get real, you're just a fanboy" position?  What's changed in those 60 hours?

I was being polite earlier, and I had 6 beers on the course and a couple Crown rocks since I got home  It's just plain dumb to think Tiger has had more of an impact on golf or the world of sport than Arnold Palmer. 

I'm working real hard to stay outta the Trump thread.  Please don't troll me there too. 

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Erik, Tiger cannot hold a candle to what Arnie did for the game of golf.

That's your opinion. I'm going to apply your track record on future predictions when I consider how you see things from the past.

And, if there's anything "dumb" here, it's using the word "fanboy." I'm not one, and words like that and the opposite ("hater") are just light name-calling. I grew up idolizing (to a sort) Arnie as he's from my neck of the woods. If I'm a "fanboy" of one of the two of them, you got which one wrong.

[Gunther]

35 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's your opinion. I'm going to apply your track record on future predictions when I consider how you see things from the past.

And, if there's anything "dumb" here, it's using the word "fanboy." I'm not one, and words like that and the opposite ("hater") are just light name-calling. I grew up idolizing (to a sort) Arnie as he's from my neck of the woods. If I'm a "fanboy" of one of the two of them, you got which one wrong.

Totally fair, fanboy can be seen as derogatory.  You are quite partial to Tiger, however.

I would also retract the word dumb.  You are not dumb but your partiality may lead you to irrational thought processes.

[Golfingdad]

Just now, Gunther said:

Totally fair, fanboy can be seen as derogatory.  You are quite partial to Tiger, however.

I would also retract the word dumb.  You are not dumb but your partiality may lead you to irrational thought processes.

Its all relative.  You think he's partial to Tiger because you're not.  Each time a topic comes up that is related to Tiger (although ironically, this one isn't supposed to be) you end up on the opposite side of the ledger.  And because you give your own opinion more weight than his, his becomes "irrational" or "dumb."  To a third party, the one who resorts to more of the name-calling and less substance usually stands out as the more irrational one.

[mvmac]

12 hours ago, ppine said:

And Tiger can't keep his pants zipped and is a terrible role model for kids and adults alike.

3 hours ago, ppine said:

He is still with Winnie.

I think you need to do a little research on Arnie 

And btw I love Arnie, he was the coolest guy ever but he wasn't a faithful husband.

[JetFan1983]

It can't just be me, but I noticed Arnie looked pretty frail this week at his tournament. Hope he's alright.

Here's to nothing but great health to the guy  Hope he's around for many years to come. Anyone else think he looked not so great this week? He seems to have lost some weight and didn't look like his usual self. 

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, JetFan1983 said:

It can't just be me, but I noticed Arnie looked pretty frail this week at his tournament. Hope he's alright.

Here's to nothing but great health to the guy  Hope he's around for many years to come. Anyone else think he looked not so great this week? He seems to have lost some weight and didn't look like his usual self. 

Agree. He looked frail to me too. I would have rather seen someone else driver that golf cart. 

[GolfLug]

Couldn't really watch the tournament this last weekend, but did watch a few mins of interview with AP (can't remember the interviewer) but he seemed a bit winded and distant. Not his usual radiant self. I am assuming all the host duties can take a toll, especially for someone like AP who I think makes a lot of effort in meeting folks and making his rounds personally. Hope all good with his health. First time not hitting the ceremonial shot at Masters either. I remember Jack N. mentioning in one of his interviews that he (JN) immersed himself in course design after retirement and when really started to slow down his golf play but apparently AP couldn't transition that easily and took it real hard after competitive golf and then when he couldn't continue playing at the level he expected to post retirement even though he played everyday for a long time. He mentioned Arnie was 100% about playing golf, heart and body and soul. What an icon.   

P.S. Please stop posting about Tiger on this thread. Little disrespectful to AP, no?

 

[Big Lex]

I like your post here because you made sure to emphasize what a great player Arnold was. One thing that often bothers me when folks discuss Arnold is that his role as an "ambassador" is always the first thing mentioned, or if not, it gets huge emphasis, usually more than his accomplishments as a player. For a while, he was indeed the greatest player in the world and had tremendous skill as a shotmaker, a power player, a great putter, a fantastic scrambler. He was head and shoulders above everyone for 5 years or so, and at or near the top for a decade.... While it's hyperbole to say this part of his record has been "forgotten," it receives, IMO, too little attention.

An interesting thing I heard Arnold say is that after a certain point, his drive to win diminished, and he didn't work as hard at the game. He probably had a few more majors in him, had his drive remained high.

I learned about his issues with the PGA only a couple of years ago. I wonder to what degree that affected him regarding his performance in the PGA Championship. He should have won one of those....

[ppine]

Thanks for the update.

[turtleback]

22 hours ago, ppine said:

And Tiger can't keep his pants zipped and is a terrible role model for kids and adults alike.  Hookers and drugs.

 

Arnold was very very fortunate that his career did not include the 24/7 internet, and that he played in an era where sportswriters routinely ignored personal pecadillos.

2 hours ago, GolfLug said:

P.S. Please stop posting about Tiger on this thread. Little disrespectful to AP, no?

 

If people are going to give Arnie accolades in a comparative mode (e.g., did more for golf than anyone else) then it is hardly disrespectful to actually discuss whether he did and if not who might be ahead of him.

[jamo]

It always worries me when I see those Golf Channel features about him. They spring them at random times. I always worry he's died.

[Gunther]

20 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

  Each time a topic comes up that is related to Tiger (although ironically, this one isn't supposed to be) you end up on the opposite side of the ledger.

Would like to see your stats on that bud, cuz you could not be more incorrect.  

[jsgolfer]

I too thought Arnie didn't look well at his tournament.