Presidential Race 2016

[Dave2512]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

Sorry to say this, that is horrible logic when trying to determine if a president was good or not. 

If want to take his biggest achievement, his healthcare bill, and why it's not really a good bill. 

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1. Insurance companies that only make 5-6% profit margins are dropping out because they are losing money on the Obamacare market. 
2. Healthy young people rather pay the penalty each year than get health insurance. The penalty isn't big enough to cover cost of having so many risky people in the Obamacare market pool. The government will not raise the penalty to cover the cost because it would look bad. Obama hasn't been able to get a tax change passed to cover this cost. 
3. Businesses rather pay the penalty and dump their employee into Obamacare. 

This bill did nothing but increase the cost of health care because it increased access, but primarily increased the risk to the market. It also never covered the cost of medical school, the frivolous law suits against doctors, and the fact we'll have a doctor shortage in about 10-20 years.

Then you have this knock on Obamacare, http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obamacare-court-ruling-20160512-snap-story.html

The Constitution says "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law," Collyer noted, but the administration has continued to pay billions to insurers for their extra cost of providing health coverage.

"Paying [those] reimbursements without an appropriation thus violates the Constitution," she wrote. "Congress is the only source for such an appropriation, and no public money can be spent without one."

Basically this means that Obama can't have the executive branch pay out subsidies with out it being appropriated by congress. If you have a GOP controlled congress they can slash the budget of the subsidies. 

 

I don't see much on what he's done other than sit back and let the economy work itself out of the mess the banks and the government put ourselves in. 

But healthcare was broken before Obama. I watched my Mom survive breast cancer twice before he took office and had a front row seat to witness the horrors of health care and insurance pre Obama. Can't break what's already broken.

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

But healthcare was broken before Obama. I watched my Mom survive breast cancer twice before he took office and had a front row seat to witness the horrors of health care and insurance pre Obama. Can't break what's already broken.

For those with pre-existing conditions it's been helpful. It's helped with access. It hasn't helped with quality of care or price of health care overall. 

We are seeing some fall out with United Health Care dropping out of the Obama Care market. It's only logical that the remaining plans will be those insurance companies that are willing to jack up the premium prices on non-obama care markets to cover the cost of the inflated risks in the Obama care market and the lack of subsidies from the government to keep this market profitable. 

It's a mess really. It would have been much better if they just said that everyone must use the obama care market and that businesses will not be allowed to offer health care plans. Having these split markets with requirements and penalties is creating a mess for the insurance companies to be able to set prices accordingly. 

[newtogolf]

14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

For those with pre-existing conditions it's been helpful. It's helped with access. It hasn't helped with quality of care or price of health care overall. 

We are seeing some fall out with United Health Care dropping out of the Obama Care market. It's only logical that the remaining plans will be those insurance companies that are willing to jack up the premium prices on non-obama care markets to cover the cost of the inflated risks in the Obama care market and the lack of subsidies from the government to keep this market profitable. 

It's a mess really. It would have been much better if they just said that everyone must use the obama care market and that businesses will not be allowed to offer health care plans. Having these split markets with requirements and penalties is creating a mess for the insurance companies to be able to set prices accordingly. 

It was rushed because he had the numbers and didn't want to risk losing his legacy.  It was short sighted and poorly conceived because no one really bothered to understand what the real health care issues in this country are.  You can't fix something if you don't know why it's broke.  

There was some positive that came out of it, coverage for pre-existing conditions and ability to cover children until 26, the rest of the 1000's of pages should be burned and forgotten.  

[Dave2512]

19 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

For those with pre-existing conditions it's been helpful. It's helped with access. It hasn't helped with quality of care or price of health care overall. 

We are seeing some fall out with United Health Care dropping out of the Obama Care market. It's only logical that the remaining plans will be those insurance companies that are willing to jack up the premium prices on non-obama care markets to cover the cost of the inflated risks in the Obama care market and the lack of subsidies from the government to keep this market profitable. 

It's a mess really. It would have been much better if they just said that everyone must use the obama care market and that businesses will not be allowed to offer health care plans. Having these split markets with requirements and penalties is creating a mess for the insurance companies to be able to set prices accordingly. 

I am not saying Obamacare helped my Mom (it did) just pointing out the system was busted before ACA. I see it as starting the conversation not a fix but so far nobody has pushed forth a better version and going back to what was before doesn't work either.

Everyone probably has a healthcare story. Personally my monthly is the same as it was 10 years ago, in fact it's about $10 a month less than it was with the same company, I had Kaiser in 2005. Plan to plan it's similar as well. I can see how people with very low paying jobs may not be able to afford insurance but they couldn't afford it before either. If they don't have benefits now it's likely because their employer can't afford to pay it for the low level position they hold.

[saevel25]

14 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Everyone probably has a healthcare story. Personally my monthly is the same as it was 10 years ago, in fact it's about $10 a month less than it was with the same company, I had Kaiser in 2005. Plan to plan it's similar as well. I can see how people with very low paying jobs may not be able to afford insurance but they couldn't afford it before either. If they don't have benefits now it's likely because their employer can't afford to pay it for the low level position they hold.

If I was dropped from my work health care, my premiums would jump 300% just going on healthcare.gov. That would also get worse off in terms of the quality of the plan and the deductible. Luckily pretty much all the plans offered are going to be considered a high deductible. So I can keep open my HSA account. You can get some tax benefits from that.  

Probably not something realize they can contribute pre-tax to an HSA as long as the deductibles are high enough. 

[Dave2512]

I pay $276 a month non-smoker on the old fat guy plan, 48 6'1 215, 5000 deductible. It's the same coverage I had in 2005 only the deductible is higher 2500 to 5000. In 2005 it was $289. The co-op plan I had was cheaper at $214 but it was EPO and my long time PCP didn't accept it. That plan was cheaper than my pre Obamacare plan.

I've pretty much seen the same thing for several years now, slight annual increase and similar coverage. Before Obamacare I switched plans every year as my broker found a slightly cheaper alternative. The insurance companies need to figure out what's wrong and help the reform. There is so much waste and inflation in healthcare. You go in for a simple procedure and the hospital bills your insurance 6000 for something that probably really cost a couple hundred because they just spent 65 million building a Pentagon sized facility with "free" infused water in the lobby. It's dumb.

[newtogolf]

12 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

I pay $276 a month non-smoker on the old fat guy plan, 48 6'1 215, 5000 deductible. It's the same coverage I had in 2005 only the deductible is higher 2500 to 5000. In 2005 it was $289. The co-op plan I had was cheaper at $214 but it was EPO and my long time PCP didn't accept it. That plan was cheaper than my pre Obamacare plan.

I've pretty much seen the same thing for several years now, slight annual increase and similar coverage. Before Obamacare I switched plans every year as my broker found a slightly cheaper alternative. The insurance companies need to figure out what's wrong and help the reform. There is so much waste and inflation in healthcare. You go in for a simple procedure and the hospital bills your insurance 6000 for something that probably really cost a couple hundred because they just spent 65 million building a Pentagon sized facility with "free" infused water in the lobby. It's dumb.

That doesn't seem like a traditional health care plan, it's more of a catastrophic care plan.  Under such a plan I'd pay out of pocket for almost all of my health care as I doubt I'd ever reach the deductible.  Most plans like that also have maximums they will cover per person.  

The plan I currently have has pretty much remained unchanged for the last 10 years (except for the cost), no deductible (except for $500 hospital stay), $25 co-pay, no referrals required, no maximum limits.  Prior to Obamacare I paid $790 for a family plan (wife and 2 kids), that same plan today costs me $1960 per month.  

[Dave2512]

23 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

That doesn't seem like a traditional health care plan, it's more of a catastrophic care plan.  Under such a plan I'd pay out of pocket for almost all of my health care as I doubt I'd ever reach the deductible.  Most plans like that also have maximums they will cover per person.  

It's my plan of choice and has been since before Obama took office. The only thing that brings me into the doctor is sports related injuries. I don't even use my "free" annual physical. Don't need to be over-insured, that's why I take care of myself.

[9wood]

3 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

Some things got passed others didn't, it hasn't been 8 years of total gridlock.

Things that didn't get passed didn't deserve to get passed.

 

 

[DrvFrShow]

One of the problems with "Obamacare" is that it is something that no one really wanted. Not even Obama. Originally it was supposed to be Single Payer or what Sanders is advocating, but he ran into the obstruction by a Congress that was bought and paid for by Big Pharma and insurance lobbyists. The way the law is written, for people on Medicare, the government can't negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies for pricing on medications. So your prescription drug plans have to pay what the insurance company negotiates. The insurance company only covers a certain amount per year. Then you're in a donut where all costs are out of pocket until you reach $4700. Once you're there, you're covered again at a reduced rate. This can almost bankrupt seniors. This is what I call the "hurry up and die" plan, especially if one is on a medication that costs $400 out of pocket every month like one medication I'm on (or suffer from 15 migraines per month). I get to pay this from September through December, then I get hit with a deductible on this medication until March. My normal co-pay is $100. If I didn't have insurance it would cost $600 out of pocket.

Needless to say I voted for Bernie Sanders in the Washington State Caucus.

Single Payer would provide everyone with basic health care. Like in other countries, if you want more than basic health care you can enter a signature care program with a private physician for a fee. You'll still get coverage, but you won't have to wait for appointments. It depends upon what your needs are. Under most SP programs you probably won't get that barrage of tests you've been getting when you go in for an exam that you've been getting, especially if they're unnecessary tests - like the MRI they did on my knee after the motion test showed that my ligaments were fine - the MRI showed I had a bruised tibia, and come to think of it - it's the same tibia where I have my current issue with the patellar tendinitis, and there is nothing they can do about it. $1200 later Diagnosis: you have pain in the knee - I could have told you that $1200 ago - this was pre-Obamacare. They do these tests because they can, not because they're necessary.

The health care system prior to Obamacare was broken. Obamacare was broken out the gate. It was supposed to provide affordable heath care for everyone, but if you live in one of the 21 states where GOP governors opted out of the Federal Funds, you're screwed. Even if you don't the plans aren't great.

Health care in this country, like anything else, won't get addressed until the system implodes. Then we'll finally get Single Payer. The problem is that with the current lot in Congress we'd get Single Payer, but they won't want to fund it. They'd rather fund the F-35 boondoggle.

[newtogolf]

Everyone blames it on big Pharma but what no one seems to get is without the expensive prescriptions there's no money to perform R&D to find cures for other diseases.  Pharma are businesses that answer to their shareholders, they are expected to make a profit.  If you want them to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into coming up with a cure for the Zika virus then you have to be willing to pay a premium so they can get reimbursed and show a profit.  

Drugs can only be protected for 7 years max before they lose exclusivity and generics can be produced, this is done intentionally to provide drug companies an opportunity to recoup R&D, drug trials and show a profit.  There are generics for most drugs, if you don't want to pay the price for a brand drug, ask for the generic.  

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

Everyone blames it on big Pharma but what no one seems to get is without the expensive prescriptions there's no money to perform R&D to find cures for other diseases.  Pharma are businesses that answer to their shareholders, they are expected to make a profit.  If you want them to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into coming up with a cure for the Zika virus then you have to be willing to pay a premium so they can get reimbursed and show a profit.  

Drugs can only be protected for 7 years max before they lose exclusivity and generics can be produced, this is done intentionally to provide drug companies an opportunity to recoup R&D, drug trials and show a profit.  There are generics for most drugs, if you don't want to pay the price for a brand drug, ask for the generic.  

I get all that. In some instances it's pure price gouging. 

Also generic drugs are a rip off. They cost substantially less to make and they are purposely marked as close to the premium brand as possible. Check out Cosco pricing. Their generic drug pricing is 4-7x less than a drug store like Rite Aid because Cosco is only to mark up maximum 17%. 

That means if Cosco maxes the profit margin then generic drugs are at minimum 108% more expensive. It's a big rip off. 

 

[newtogolf]

7 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I get all that. In some instances it's pure price gouging. 

Also generic drugs are a rip off. They cost substantially less to make and they are purposely marked as close to the premium brand as possible. Check out Cosco pricing. Their generic drug pricing is 4-7x less than a drug store like Rite Aid because Cosco is only to mark up maximum 17%. 

That means if Cosco maxes the profit margin then generic drugs are at minimum 108% more expensive. It's a big rip off. 

 

That has nothing to do with big Pharma, what you're showing is the different price markups in retails stores.  I'm sure the numbers aren't as dramatic for some other drugs.

People who don't shop based on price are going to get ripped off on anything they buy.  I can buy two big tubs of ketchup at Costco for the same price as I can a small bottle at the local supermarket, sometimes I'm willing to pay a premium for convenience, other times I'm not.    

[Dave2512]

29 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Everyone blames it on big Pharma but what no one seems to get is without the expensive prescriptions there's no money to perform R&D to find cures for other diseases.  Pharma are businesses that answer to their shareholders, they are expected to make a profit.  If you want them to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into coming up with a cure for the Zika virus then you have to be willing to pay a premium so they can get reimbursed and show a profit.  

Drugs can only be protected for 7 years max before they lose exclusivity and generics can be produced, this is done intentionally to provide drug companies an opportunity to recoup R&D, drug trials and show a profit.  There are generics for most drugs, if you don't want to pay the price for a brand drug, ask for the generic.  

I don't. I've watched my Dad die and three grandparents die. Expensive pills didn't hurt or help. Silly waste, shameful billing and gvmt red tape are the worst.

I complained about my Mom earlier. My parents are millionaires and they got hosed. Healthcare iin the US is busted. This isn't a class issue. It's not a entitlement problem and it's not a drug problem it's bigger than all of that. Time to stop politicizing it and fix it. 

[boogielicious]

I almost threw up in my mouth yesterday when I opened my link to CNN. They had a headline, "Looking ahead to 2020" and pictures of the candidates who've dropped out. We haven't even finished the most F'd up election in my life time and these shitheads want to look ahead to the next one?!!! Can't we have some peace?

[newtogolf]

6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I almost threw up in my mouth yesterday when I opened my link to CNN. They had a headline, "Looking ahead to 2020" and pictures of the candidates who've dropped out. We haven't even finished the most F'd up election in my life time and these shitheads want to look ahead to the next one?!!! Can't we have some peace?

That is sad, either means CNN is nervous about Hillary's chances or they are just trying to capitalize on all the attention these elections have gotten.  I'm pretty sick of the elections and politics so I'll probably just wait until the summer is over and see which candidates are left standing.  

I'm not voting for Bernie or Hillary so it's just a matter of who else is around to vote for.  

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

That is sad, either means CNN is nervous about Hillary's chances or they are just trying to capitalize on all the attention these elections have gotten.  

Look at that ESPN does now. They produce the, "Way too early" mock NFL Drafts for 2017. 

 

[Golfingdad]

15 hours ago, newtogolf said:

That has nothing to do with big Pharma, what you're showing is the different price markups in retails stores.  I'm sure the numbers aren't as dramatic for some other drugs.

People who don't shop based on price are going to get ripped off on anything they buy.  I can buy two big tubs of ketchup at Costco for the same price as I can a small bottle at the local supermarket, sometimes I'm willing to pay a premium for convenience, other times I'm not.    

But do you really NEED that much ketchup? ;)