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The NYT is writing a lot about weight issues lately


nevets88
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I haven't been reading much on nutrition, diet and exercise lately. Some interesting reading on the battling the waistline to ponder on and updates to older studies I've read that say the opposite - more muscle - higher metabolism for example.

After ‘The Biggest Loser,’ Their Bodies Fought to Regain Weight

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But Dr. Ludwig said that simply cutting calories was not the answer. “There are no doubt exceptional individuals who can ignore primal biological signals and maintain weight loss for the long term by restricting calories,” he said, but he added that “for most people, the combination of incessant hunger and slowing metabolism is a recipe for weight regain — explaining why so few individuals can maintain weight loss for more than a few months.”

Dr. Rosenbaum agreed. “The difficulty in keeping weight off reflects biology, not a pathological lack of willpower affecting two-thirds of the U.S.A.,” he said.

...

“‘The Biggest Loser’ did change my life, but not in a way that most would think. It opened my eyes to the fact that obesity is not simply a food addiction. It is a disability of a malfunctioning metabolic system.”


Rudy Pauls
37, electrical engineer, Belchertown, Mass.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html

Short Answers to Hard Questions About Weight Loss

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Are you more likely to maintain weight loss if you lose weight slowly?

That is the advice dieters often get, but studies have not found that to be the case. For example, a recent Australian study, ...

 

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If you build muscle with exercise, including weight lifting, will you be able to maintain a higher metabolism?

Muscle burns more calories than fat, so it might stand to reason that the more muscle you have the faster you will burn calories. But it turns out that building muscles has almost no effect on resting metabolism, which determines how many calories a person burns when at rest. 

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Exercise also has an unexpected effect, documented by Dr. Rosenbaum and Dr. Rudolph Leibel at Columbia University. They found that after you lose 10 percent or more of your weight by diet alone, your muscles start using genes that make them more efficient. They burn 20 to 30 percent fewer calories for the same exercise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/health/short-answers-to-hard-questions-about-weight-loss.html

To Keep Obesity at Bay, Exercise May Trump Diet

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Perhaps most striking, “the runners showed no signs of compensatory eating or compensatory inactivity,” said Victoria Vieira-Potter, an assistant professor of nutrition and exercise physiology at the University of Missouri who oversaw the study. They didn’t scarf down more food than the control group, despite running several miles every day and, according to the specialized cages, actually moved around more when not exercising than either of the other groups of rats.

In essence, the runners, while weighing the same as the dieters at the end of the study, seemed better set up to avoid weight gain in the future.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/05/04/to-keep-obesity-at-bay-exercise-may-trump-diet/

Steve

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40 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I haven't been reading much on nutrition, diet and exercise lately. Some interesting reading on the battling the waistline to ponder on and updates to older studies I've read that say the opposite - more muscle - higher metabolism for example.

This is a myth. You don't gain a substantial increase in metabolism from gaining muscle. It's very minimal at best.

Quote

Weight training, by increasing muscle mass, should have a small effect on BMR as well although not all studies have shown this to be the case. Unfortunately, the most recent research points out just how small the effect is: at rest, a pound of muscle burns about 6 calories. The old values of 40-100 cal/lb were simply vast overestimations and unless you can add an absolute ton of muscle mass, you’re unlikely to increase resting metabolic rate significantly (not that adding muscle doesn’t have other benefits).

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html/

On muscle mass being apart of your resting metabolism ,

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I want to be clear that here I’m using lean body mass generally to include muscle. organs, brain, etc. Quite in fact, your muscles don’t actually use that much total energy on a daily basis. Despite making up nearly 40% of your total body mass, muscles only contribute about 25% of your total RMR. In contrast, your organs account for nearly 60% of your total RMR because they are so much more active.


I do believe that it's a combination of both working out and eating better that is the key to keeping weight off.

Given they did a study on overweight people who worked out versus overweight people who didn't work out. They found that overweight people who did work out had much better blood pressure and cholesterol numbers. In that regard working out is just good for your health even if you don't lose much weight.

If I had to say do one thing or the other, it's working out. It's good for the body in general. It's good for the mind. There are studies that show working out helps Alzheimer's patients.

Being able to control your impulses to eat, to maintain a healthy deficit, is the key to losing weight.

 

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9 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

This is a myth. You don't gain a substantial increase in metabolism from gaining muscle. It's very minimal at best.

On muscle mass being apart of your resting metabolism ,


I do believe that it's a combination of both working out and eating better that is the key to keeping weight off.

Given they did a study on overweight people who worked out versus overweight people who didn't work out. They found that overweight people who did work out had much better blood pressure and cholesterol numbers. In that regard working out is just good for your health even if you don't lose much weight.

If I had to say do one thing or the other, it's working out. It's good for the body in general. It's good for the mind. There are studies that show working out helps Alzheimer's patients.

Being able to control your impulses to eat, to maintain a healthy deficit, is the key to losing weight.

Totally agree. You feel good after exercising, whether it be cardio or weights, get the blood flow going. I read some studies in the past that leaned toward exercise doesn't help much, but I couldn't bring myself to believe that. I feel like I'm more creative after working out the body.

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This got me to thinking about the early morning golfers at an executive 18 hole course I play.  They are for the most part older than 50 and younger than 80, they walk with hand carts.  Most of them are quite thin.

Consistent moderate exercise is what they are getting.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/sc-exercise-weight-loss-health-0210-20160204-story.html

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5 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

This got me to thinking about the early morning golfers at an executive 18 hole course I play.  They are for the most part older than 50 and younger than 80, they walk with hand carts.  Most of them are quite thin.

Consistent moderate exercise is what they are getting.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/sc-exercise-weight-loss-health-0210-20160204-story.html

Yes, you don't have to do triathlons all the time. Moderation.

Steve

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The only way I ever got thin was bicycle training and racing. I got down to 160. But it took lots and lots of hours on the bike 6 to 7 days a week. It took me two years to get down from 180 to 160. I was down to <10% body fat. But I also got sick a lot catching every cold and them turning into sinus infections and sometime bronchitis. I maintain 160-165 for 5 or 6 years. Then when my son was born, the hours reduced. My knee issues began to accelerate too.

I can't do that now with my knee issues. I do work out a lot still and probably average 45 to 60 minutes a day 5 to 6 days a week. I count golf as exercise on those days because I walk. When I ride, it's usually an hour MTB ride or maybe 1.5 on the road bike and mid to high intensity. I walk a lot and hike with my wife too. I also do golf specific exercises because that is my goal to get better at golf. I'm not thin anymore, but I also don't catch every cold and haven't had a sinus infection in 15 years.

I exercise because I like to, not to get thin. 

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Missed this one:

Why You Can’t Lose Weight on a Diet
The problem isn’t willpower. It’s neuroscience. You can’t — and shouldn’t — fight back.

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If dieting doesn’t work, what should we do instead? I recommend mindful eating — paying attention to signals of hunger and fullness, without judgment, to relearn how to eat only as much as the brain’s weight-regulation system commands.

Relative to chronic dieters, people who eat when they’re hungry and stop when they’re full are less likely to become overweight, maintain more stable weights over time and spend less time thinking about food. Mindful eating also helps people with eating disorders like binge eating learn to eat normally. Depending on the individual’s set point, mindful eating may reduce weight or it may not. Either way, it’s a powerful tool to maintain weight stability, without deprivation.

I finally gave up dieting six years ago, and I’m much happier. I redirected the energy I used to spend on dieting to establishing daily habits of exercise and meditation. I also enjoy food more while worrying about it less, now that it no longer comes with a side order of shame.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/why-you-cant-lose-weight-on-a-diet.html

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It seems science is coming around and admitting that we're all not built the same and some of us have a tougher time than others keeping the pounds off.  Admittedly some people just have poor eating habits and are too sedentary but overall I believe there is a difference in genetic makeup that makes it easier for some to maintain a healthy weight and body.  

Joe Paradiso

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I don't know much about the science behind what works when it comes to losing weight and what not but the only thing I can say is that I've been going to the gym five days a week for the last four months or so and yesterday I did a few push-ups with ease when normally that hadn't been the case.  So, it's proving to me that I'm getting stronger and mentally, I really like that and it helps me keep my diet in line.

My diet right now is roughly 0.8 grams of protein per pound of weight, 0.6 grams of carbs per pound of weight, and 0.3 grams of fats per pound of weight, so, a bit more than 2000 calories per day.  At 243 or so pounds I'm at right now, it allows me to eat food that I love like ice cream as long as I work my meal plan around it.  

I eat a lot of chicken and protein shakes, haha. 

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Another piece, this one from Vox:

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The researchers behind the study found that people who have had success losing weight share a few things in common: They weigh themselves at least once a week. They restrict their calorie intake, stay away from high-fat foods, and watch their portion sizes. They also exercise regularly.

But note: These folks use physical activity in addition to calorie counting and other behavioral changes. Every reliable expert I've ever spoken to on weight loss says the most important thing a person can do is to limit calories in a way they like and can sustain, and focus on eating more healthfully.

In general, diet with exercise can work better than calorie cutting alone, but with only marginal additional weight-loss benefits. Consider this chart from a randomized trial that was done on a group of overweight folks: The group that restricted calories lost about the same amount of weight as the group that dieted and exercised, though the exercisers didn't cut as many calories:

diet_JAMA_CHART.0.png

If you embark on a weight-loss journey that involves both adding exercise and cutting calories, Montclair's Diana Thomas warned not to count those calories burned in physical activity toward extra eating.

"Pretend you didn't exercise at all," she said. "You will most likely compensate anyway so think of exercising just for health improvement but not for weight loss."

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11518804/weight-loss-exercise-myth-burn-calories

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People like to come up with excuses for their own shortcomings. It's human nature. The simple fact is that we are all quite similar in our bmr(height/weight groups). If we leave medical conditions out of the equation even the "normal" extreme outliers are not very far from the mean bmr. Meaning the normal distribution is quite tight. With that being said it all boils down to calories in and calories out.

Exercise will definately make a difference but you can drop weight by simply eating less and maintain that weight loss the body does not "fight back to regain the weight". What usually happens is people are in denial of their eating habits and tend to relapse to a degree where they start gaining weight.

Im not just talking out of my ass. I got into powerlifting a few years back at 6'3 and 195 pounds as skinnyfat as they get. In a year I ballooned myself to 230 cut back to 220 and continued on to my heaviest weighing in at 265. I'd been eating the same meals every day for practically a year so all I did was drop 500 calories worth of milk out of my bmr and I was dropping weight. As I got to my target I popped the calories up to maintenance and voila its stayed there since.

 

TL;DR. Don't overcomplicate things it's actually very simple. Diets only work when you follow them.

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27 minutes ago, Alx said:

People like to come up with excuses for their own shortcomings. It's human nature. The simple fact is that we are all quite similar in our bmr(height/weight groups). If we leave medical conditions out of the equation even the "normal" extreme outliers are not very far from the mean bmr. Meaning the normal distribution is quite tight. With that being said it all boils down to calories in and calories out.

BMR can fluctuate greatly. A good estimate is 11 per lb of body weight. 

A 180 guy is at 1980
A 250 guy is at 2750

That's 770 calories. That is a lot. 

28 minutes ago, Alx said:

Exercise will definately make a difference but you can drop weight by simply eating less and maintain that weight loss the body does not "fight back to regain the weight". What usually happens is people are in denial of their eating habits and tend to relapse to a degree where they start gaining weight.

Its tough because of calorie density and processed foods meant for us to want to eat a lot of them. If you eat a lot of lean foods it take a lot of food to reach your BMR. If you go to Wendy's you might get 80% in one meal. 

I think people routinely underestimate what they eat. Also, its very easy to slip more calories in or not actually measure your portion sizes. 

 

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9 hours ago, saevel25 said:

BMR can fluctuate greatly. A good estimate is 11 per lb of body weight. 

A 180 guy is at 1980
A 250 guy is at 2750

That's 770 calories. That is a lot. 

Yes and this is exactly what I said. I'll clarify, what I meant was if we divided people to groups based on their weight/height and body comp the dispersion within those groups would be tight. Obviously there will be a difference if there's a significant muscle mass difference.

But. I don't know where you got those numbers but they are off. Someone at 250 0% fat might have a bmr of 2750 but he would also be dead by the end of the day. The 180 is closer. Someone weighing 250 will probably have a fat percentage of over 30 so the lean mass difference between the 2 people is probably not very big. Now keep in mind fat weight does not affect bmr. It does increase calorie consumption if active.

Considering 60% of american are overweight I seriously doubt 60% of americans are simultanously significantly below the average bmr. Not sure if it's statistically even possible.

 

10 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Its tough because of calorie density and processed foods meant for us to want to eat a lot of them. If you eat a lot of lean foods it take a lot of food to reach your BMR. If you go to Wendy's you might get 80% in one meal. 

I think people routinely underestimate what they eat. Also, its very easy to slip more calories in or not actually measure your portion sizes. 

True there are alot of temptations. But this is exactly what I was alluding to. There's no big mystery to weight gain or loss it's very easily explained.

The bottom line is as you said that people underestimate what they eat. If you go to a wendys or where ever and get the largest portion getting 80% of the calories for the day and then still eat another warm meal, half a dozen snacks and end up at 160% of daily consumption it's not a suprise you're gaining weight. 

You can still eat out but be smart about it.

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I have friend who says, and you've probably heard this before, you don't see any fat people in a prison/labor camp. I sort of agreed with him in some aspects, but there's also the saying you want to add life to your years or years to your life. It's a tradeoff, obviously.

Steve

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Sorry, There’s Nothing Magical About Breakfast

NYT writer says skipping breakfast has no influence on obesity. Other factors contribute to school kids not eating breakfast gaining weight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/upshot/sorry-theres-nothing-magical-about-breakfast.html

Steve

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42 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Sorry, There’s Nothing Magical About Breakfast

NYT writer says skipping breakfast has no influence on obesity. Other factors contribute to school kids not eating breakfast gaining weight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/upshot/sorry-theres-nothing-magical-about-breakfast.html

I didn't realize "magical" breakfast was a thing. I never eat breakfast, and I don't feel it negatively impacts me at all. Sometimes I'll mix up a weight gainer shake in the mornings if I feel I need to pack in more calories, but usually coffee is the only thing I have in the mornings.

I wouldn't be surprised if breakfast being so important was a by-product of generations of marketing by cereal manufacturers and the research backing it up was funded by them.

Bill

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17 minutes ago, billchao said:

I didn't realize "magical" breakfast was a thing. I never eat breakfast, and I don't feel it negatively impacts me at all. Sometimes I'll mix up a weight gainer shake in the mornings if I feel I need to pack in more calories, but usually coffee is the only thing I have in the mornings.

I wouldn't be surprised if breakfast being so important was a by-product of generations of marketing by cereal manufacturers and the research backing it up was funded by them.

Agree, not a breakfast person either. Eating before exercising, just no for obvious reasons. Don't really feel like eating afterwards. You should see what some people at work here eat for breakfast there are the food carts that sell what are named croissants, but something the French would barely recognize, it's just dried flakey buttery crusty dough, among other terribly not nutritious muffins, cakes and carbo calorie packed not goodness.

The food pyramid being incorrect, what they said about salt, incorrect, breakfast, unsubstantiated. Food industry is trying to kill us slowly to fund the HMOs they have some secret handshake going. 

And Coke or whomever with the smaller cans. That's a step in the right direction, but Canada and other countries had that size like 20 years ago. 

Steve

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4 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

You should see what some people at work here eat for breakfast there are the food carts that sell what are named croissants, but something the French would barely recognize, it's just dried flakey buttery crusty dough, among other terribly not nutritious muffins, cakes and carbo calorie packed not goodness.

Yea I'd rather not eat than eat what some people consider breakfast. I can understand if it was a good mix of vegetables, protein, and carbohydrates, but muffins, donuts, et al are not good breakfast foods.

13 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

And Coke or whomever with the smaller cans. That's a step in the right direction, but Canada and other countries had that size like 20 years ago. 

Best way to cut calories from soda is to drink water.

Bill

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Note: This thread is 2716 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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