2016 Quicken Loans National Discussion Thread

[boogielicious]

Tiger Woods hosts this event which is at Congressional CC in Bethesda, MD with a purse of $6,900,000.

Some of the US Open crowd, who didn't play well, will be out to prove themselves.

Tee times:

http://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/quicken-loans-national/tee-times.html

[krupa]

Has every tournament been delayed by weather this year!?

Meanwhile, my local course is drier and more brown (browner?) than I have ever seen it and it's still June.

[saevel25]

Charlie Hoffman aims for opponents caddie to prevent ball from going into the rough. 

 

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Charlie Hoffman aims for opponents caddie to prevent ball from going into the rough. 

 

Quote

13-1. General

The ball must be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided in the Rules.

(Ball at rest moved - see Rule 18)

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play

A player must not improve or allow to be improved:

the position or lie of his ball,
the area of his intended stance or swing,
his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:

pressing a club on the ground,
moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:

in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
in fairly taking his stance,
in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard - see Rule 13-4.

I assume the ref thought he "fairly took his stance" when he bent that branch with his body.

[krupa]

11 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I assume the ref thought he "fairly took his stance" when he bent that branch with his body.

I'm confused.  The way I read the rule you quoted, if you are fairly taking your stance, i.e., not building a stance, you can bend a branch:  

12 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:

in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
in fairly taking his stance,
in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).

Do I misunderstand what "fairly taking a stance" means?

[boogielicious]

3 minutes ago, krupa said:

I'm confused.  The way I read the rule you quoted, if you are fairly taking your stance, i.e., not building a stance, you can bend a branch:  

Do I misunderstand what "fairly taking a stance" means?

Not sure. That is why I posted. I thought you could not do what Charlie did.

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Not sure. That is why I posted. I thought you could not do what Charlie did.

 

Spoiler

13-2/1

 

Explanation of "Fairly Taking His Stance"

Q.Rule 13-2 states that a player must not improve the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing or his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole by moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds). An exception permits a player to do so in "fairly taking his stance." What is the significance of "fairly"?

A.Without "fairly," the exception would permit improvement of position or lie, area of intended stance or swing or line of play by anything that could be said to be taking a stance. The use of "fairly" is intended to limit the player to what is reasonably necessary to take a stance for the selected stroke without unduly improving the position of the ball, his lie, area of intended stance or swing or line of play. Thus, in taking his stance for the selected stroke, the player should select the least intrusive course of action which results in the minimum improvement in the position or lie of the ball, area of intended stance or swing or line of play. The player is not entitled to a normal stance or swing. He must accommodate the situation in which the ball is found and take a stance as normal as the circumstances permit. What is fair must be determined in the light of all the circumstances.

Examples of actions which do constitute fairly taking a stance are:

• backing into a branch or young sapling if that is the only way to take a stance for the selected stroke, even if this causes the branch to move out of the way or the sapling to bend or break.
• bending a branch of a tree with the hands in order to get under the tree to play a ball.

Examples of actions which do not constitute fairly taking a stance are:

• deliberately moving, bending or breaking branches with the hands, a leg or the body to get them out of the way of the backswing or stroke.
• standing on a branch to prevent it interfering with the backswing or stroke.
• hooking one branch on another or braiding two weeds for the same purpose.
• bending with a hand a branch obscuring the ball after the stance has been taken.
• bending an interfering branch with the hands, a leg or the body in taking a stance when the stance could have been taken without bending the branch.

I believe as long as the branch would not have interfered with his swing anyways then he's allowed to back into it and by the decision bend or break the branches. 

 

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

 

  Hide contents

13-2/1

 

Explanation of "Fairly Taking His Stance"

Q.Rule 13-2 states that a player must not improve the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing or his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole by moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds). An exception permits a player to do so in "fairly taking his stance." What is the significance of "fairly"?

A.Without "fairly," the exception would permit improvement of position or lie, area of intended stance or swing or line of play by anything that could be said to be taking a stance. The use of "fairly" is intended to limit the player to what is reasonably necessary to take a stance for the selected stroke without unduly improving the position of the ball, his lie, area of intended stance or swing or line of play. Thus, in taking his stance for the selected stroke, the player should select the least intrusive course of action which results in the minimum improvement in the position or lie of the ball, area of intended stance or swing or line of play. The player is not entitled to a normal stance or swing. He must accommodate the situation in which the ball is found and take a stance as normal as the circumstances permit. What is fair must be determined in the light of all the circumstances.

Examples of actions which do constitute fairly taking a stance are:

• backing into a branch or young sapling if that is the only way to take a stance for the selected stroke, even if this causes the branch to move out of the way or the sapling to bend or break.
• bending a branch of a tree with the hands in order to get under the tree to play a ball.

Examples of actions which do not constitute fairly taking a stance are:

• deliberately moving, bending or breaking branches with the hands, a leg or the body to get them out of the way of the backswing or stroke.
• standing on a branch to prevent it interfering with the backswing or stroke.
• hooking one branch on another or braiding two weeds for the same purpose.
• bending with a hand a branch obscuring the ball after the stance has been taken.
• bending an interfering branch with the hands, a leg or the body in taking a stance when the stance could have been taken without bending the branch.

I believe as long as the branch would not have interfered with his swing anyways then he's allowed to back into it and by the decision bend or break the branches. 

 

Thanks.

[Gngolfn]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

13-2/1

 

Explanation of "Fairly Taking His Stance"

Q.Rule 13-2 states that a player must not improve the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing or his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole by moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds). An exception permits a player to do so in "fairly taking his stance." What is the significance of "fairly"?

A.Without "fairly," the exception would permit improvement of position or lie, area of intended stance or swing or line of play by anything that could be said to be taking a stance. The use of "fairly" is intended to limit the player to what is reasonably necessary to take a stance for the selected stroke without unduly improving the position of the ball, his lie, area of intended stance or swing or line of play. Thus, in taking his stance for the selected stroke, the player should select the least intrusive course of action which results in the minimum improvement in the position or lie of the ball, area of intended stance or swing or line of play. The player is not entitled to a normal stance or swing. He must accommodate the situation in which the ball is found and take a stance as normal as the circumstances permit. What is fair must be determined in the light of all the circumstances.

Examples of actions which do constitute fairly taking a stance are:

• backing into a branch or young sapling if that is the only way to take a stance for the selected stroke, even if this causes the branch to move out of the way or the sapling to bend or break.
• bending a branch of a tree with the hands in order to get under the tree to play a ball.

Examples of actions which do not constitute fairly taking a stance are:

• deliberately moving, bending or breaking branches with the hands, a leg or the body to get them out of the way of the backswing or stroke.
• standing on a branch to prevent it interfering with the backswing or stroke.
• hooking one branch on another or braiding two weeds for the same purpose.
• bending with a hand a branch obscuring the ball after the stance has been taken.
• bending an interfering branch with the hands, a leg or the body in taking a stance when the stance could have been taken without bending the branch.

I believe as long as the branch would not have interfered with his swing anyways then he's allowed to back into it and by the decision bend or break the branches. 

 

I believe the rule states that you can bend the branches but not break them. Breaking them is considered building a stance. 

[Hardspoon]

Shot-tracer just caught Rahm's shank...haven't seen that before. 

[newtogolf]

1 hour ago, Hardspoon said:

Shot-tracer just caught Rahm's shank...haven't seen that before. 

Yeah, it's even hard to watch with Shot-tracer.  I had a few of those yesterday, not a good feeling.  

[nevets88]

In Bob Uecker's voice, juuuuust, a little outside. Rightward, he hits it.  Ummmmm...

 

[atb5079]

This field is very lackluster even for after a major and Congressional is overrated. Bummed because I really like the RTJ course last year.

[nevets88]

Hurley w/a fairway wood from the rough.

 

[Chilli Dipper]

7 hours ago, atb5079 said:

This field is very lackluster even for after a major and Congressional is overrated. Bummed because I really like the RTJ course last year.

Every field outside of the remaining majors is bound to be lackluster until the playoffs start. The Olympics have forced the elite players' hand on their playing schedules, even among those who have said they aren't playing in Rio.

[atb5079]

34 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Every field outside of the remaining majors is bound to be lackluster until the playoffs start. The Olympics have forced the elite players' hand on their playing schedules, even among those who have said they aren't playing in Rio.

Next week is gonna be great. 

[Chilli Dipper]

27 minutes ago, atb5079 said:

Next week is gonna be great. 

Yet not as great as Firestone usually is: the European Tour isn't sanctioning the event (as it normally does for WGCs), as the condensed schedule threatened to keep top European players from actually competing on the continent (besides the Open Championship) from June to mid-September. Rory and some of the other top Euros are playing in the French Open instead next week.

[Yukari]

Great to see Hurley win at "home"