Player Responsibilities to Watch Others Like a Hawk

[Fourputt]

2 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Which means the burden of proof of collusion would be even greater for amateurs.  

During a match play tournament, Player A's ball landed near tree roots and he proceeded to roll his ball away from the roots while his competitor watched.  As he did it, Player A said he didn't want to hurt himself or ruin a club, which Player B acknowledged but did not mention that a penalty would be incurred.   Player A didn't assess himself a penalty and won the hole and eventually the match.  

Would that qualify as agreeing to waive a rule?  I was involved in a different match, but rode in the cart with Player B so I was witness to it.  Was I obligated to say something to either player or the committee?  

If Player B was aware that a penalty had been incurred and said nothing, that is his prerogative, but he was an idiot for not calling it and losing the hole as a result.  If nothing was said between the players either before or during the round about such a situation, then no waiving occurred.  

In a match you are not obligated to say anything.  The match is only a contest between the participants of the match, and the only other person who should involve himself is a referee if there is one.

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

If Player B was aware that a penalty had been incurred and said nothing, that is his prerogative, but he was an idiot for not calling it and losing the hole as a result.  If nothing was said between the players either before or during the round about such a situation, then no waiving occurred.  

In a match you are not obligated to say anything.  The match is only a contest between the participants of the match, and the only other person who should involve himself is a referee if there is one.

Okay thanks, nothing was said, just a head nod from Player B acknowledging Player A's statement that he didn't want to get hurt or break his club hitting a tree root.  

Player B is a new member, I think he was a bit intimidated by the experience and since I was in a different match I felt awkward asking him why he didn't call Player A on the rules violation.  

[saevel25]

10 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Would that qualify as agreeing to waive a rule?  I was involved in a different match, but rode in the cart with Player B so I was witness to it.  Was I obligated to say something to either player or the committee?  

I presume though that if you are in another match then you are part of the same tournament/event.

I am not sure if you would be in breach of the rules if you did not inform the committee of Player A & B's breach and waiver of the rules. 

If there is a waiver of the rules then both players should be disqualified. 

[Rulesman]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

I was in a different match I felt awkward asking him why he didn't call Player A on the rules violation.  

You have no obligation to say or do anything re a match in which you are not involved. To use the words above - there is no field to protect.

In fact unless a referee is assigned to accompany the players throughout a match, he has no authority to intervene in a match other than in relation to Rule 1-3, 6-7 or 33-7 

Nor should you.

[SG11118]

17 hours ago, Asheville said:

Decision 33-7/9 Competitor Who Knows Player Has Breached Rules Does Not Inform Player or Committee in Timely Manner

The responsibility for knowing the Rules lies with all players. In stroke play, the player and his marker have an explicit responsibility for the correctness of the player's score card.

There may, however, be exceptional individual cases where, in order to protect the interests of every other player in the competition, it would be reasonable to expect a fellow-competitor or another competitor to bring to light a player's breach of the Rules by notifying the player, his marker or the Committee.

In such exceptional circumstances, it would be appropriate for the Committee to impose a penalty of disqualification under Rule 33-7 on a fellow-competitor or another competitor if it becomes apparent that he has failed to advise the player, his marker or the Committee of a Rules breach with the clear intention of allowing that player to return an incorrect score.

I think I need to read through all the rules and decisions.  I keep running into things I didn't specifically know about.  I guess if I'm the golfer's marker in a stroke play event, and I need to sign for their score, I would protect the field by calling them on an infraction I noticed.  However, I've caught myself several times allowing a golfer to get away with an infraction when I am not specifically their marker. 

With the exception of the occasional state golf association sanctioned events, I consider the stroke play events I play in as "fun" events where drinking and goofing around are commonplace.  The "fun culture" of these events makes me less likely to mandate that everyone plays explicitly by the rules of golf.  I want to know and follow the rules in my golf game, but I tend to not hold others to the same standard.

[turtleback]

 

On 7/14/2016 at 9:05 PM, CR McDivot said:

I don't play tournaments or even leagues, so my input means nothing - except...

An honest gentleman will call a foul on himself if he is aware of the transgression.

If one cannot play an honest round solo, one cannot be expected to do so in competition.

A friendly game with nothing on the line... one is likely to show grace (although a bit of good natured jabbing would not be out of line). In this instance the sinner sins only against himself! 

None of this has anything to do with the topic.

 

On 7/15/2016 at 6:50 AM, newtogolf said:

A foot wedge is a pretty obvious rules violation so it's not a great example.  

Going back to the US Open, the USGA determined via video replay that Dustin Johnson grounded his club and that caused his ball to move.  DJ claimed to not have grounded his club and Lee Westwood claimed to have observed DJ and attested to the RO that Dustin did not ground his club.  

At what point does the committee decide there is collusion to waive a rule or if both competitors are just ignorant of the rules.

I'm not at all suggesting that DJ and Westwood should be disqualified, I'm just trying to understand the nuances of the rule and how it applies to competitions I'm involved in. 

No penalty because the rules official blew it by not clarifying exactly what he meant.  He should have asked a lot more questions before blessing anything.  DJ and Westwood not knowing the difference between grounding your club and addressing the ball is hardly surprising.  "Show me exactly what you did" is the question the RO should have asked,