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Turn that boombox down/off ... you idiot!


rkim291968
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8 minutes ago, David in FL said:

You would think...

....but then the question becomes, at least for our somewhat tangential discussion, who's being discourteous?  The individual who wants to join another group but also insists that they abide by his preferences, or the group who has no objection to a stranger joining them, but does not wish to change their own style of play in doing so and only expects that the stranger will accept the manner in which the remainder of the group chooses to play?

The needs of the many usually out weighs the needs few. The individual is joining an already established group, who have their own playing preference. It's no different than a single trying impose his slower play on a group of faster players when he joins their group. 

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A whole bunch of Tour Edge golf stuff...... :beer:

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50 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Then turn it around.  If I play fast and loose with the rules, should you be required to do so too, just because it bothers me when you insist on playing strictly?

Of course not.  I'll simply either accept your style of play, or play with someone else.  

No, of course not - you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't affect me.  But playing music DOES affect me in that I can't, per the rules, submit my round for handicap if I can hear your music. 

I'll add a couple of things here. For one, I don't doubt that you and your group try to be respectful of other groups.  However, I have been in a bunch of situations where I can hear music from adjacent fairways or tee boxes and it is kinda distracting.  Sometimes, I don't think the offending group even knew I was there (there were trees/bushes between us), so perhaps they didn't know to turn down.  I don't think I should have to be yelling, "Hey, could you turn that down," when I'm trying to make a shot.  So, even if you don't think anyone else can hear your music, you might be wrong and it might be carrying further than you're aware.

Second, sometimes when I play as a single I get grouped up with other people and I don't have much choice in the matter in terms of not playing with them.  This could be due to the course being busy or whatever.  This might not be an issue at your club, and that's great if that's the case, but for many of us we don't have the option of switching and it's not like we're begging to play with another group in the first place.  If it's someone who has asked to join your group but has other options, I get your point.

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20 minutes ago, David in FL said:

You would think...

....but then the question becomes, at least for our somewhat tangential discussion, who's being discourteous?  The individual who wants to join another group but also insists that they abide by his preferences, or the group who has no objection to a stranger joining them, but does not wish to change their own style of play in doing so and only expects that the stranger will accept the manner in which the remainder of the group chooses to play?

Both.

If your need to play music while golfing is so steadfast you can't turn it off for a round to accommodate a single who asks politely and who doesn't have an option to play in a different group (which is often the case on public courses, though for private courses when it's not packed full I can see how it wouldn't be the case), you're being unreasonable. 

And if you absolutely can't stand someone else's cart playing music if they're being courteous and either turning it off when you're hitting or if the group is on the tee (where carts are often usually parked pretty nearby), then you're also being unreasonable. 

Same for smoking, etc.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

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25 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

In casual play, etiquette trumps all - that's why it is Section 1 in the rule book.  Even the USGA acknowledges that good etiquette is as important to the overall game as the rules are.  Respect for the course and for the other players on the course is at the top of every player's responsibility, regardless of whether it's casual golf or serious competition. 

If what you do outside of the necessary actions of playing the game bothers or degrades the experience for another, then you are in the wrong, and it really doesn't matter if the course allows it.

Unfortunately, such things are so extraordinarily individual, that virtually anything could fall into that category on any given day.  It's so simple.  If someone doesn't like the way I play, they should not play with me.  If I don't like something another group likes to do, I'll opt not to play with them.  

I think we're all agreed, that as with the OP's original tee box example, if music intrudes on others outside of our group, it becomes an etiquette issue.  That's not the case in this tangential discussion though.

10 minutes ago, drmevo said:

No, of course not - you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't affect me.  But playing music DOES affect me in that I can't, per the rules, submit my round for handicap if I can hear your music. 

I'll add a couple of things here. For one, I don't doubt that you and your group try to be respectful of other groups.  However, I have been in a bunch of situations where I can hear music from adjacent fairways or tee boxes and it is kinda distracting.  Sometimes, I don't think the offending group even knew I was there (there were trees/bushes between us), so perhaps they didn't know to turn down.  I don't think I should have to be yelling, "Hey, could you turn that down," when I'm trying to make a shot.  So, even if you don't think anyone else can hear your music, you might be wrong and it might be carrying further than you're aware.

Second, sometimes when I play as a single I get grouped up with other people and I don't have much choice in the matter in terms of not playing with them.  This could be due to the course being busy or whatever.  This might not be an issue at your club, and that's great if that's the case, but for many of us we don't have the option of switching and it's not like we're begging to play with another group in the first place.  If it's someone who has asked to join your group but has other options, I get your point.

Absolutely incorrect.  Simply being within earshot of someone else playing music no more disqualifies your round, than would playing with someone who breaks other rules.

There are always other options, including not playing at all.  The chance someone takes in playing as a single is that they'll be paired with people that have different values and expectations as they do.  

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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4 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Unfortunately, such things are so extraordinarily individual, that virtually anything could fall into that category on any given day.  It's so simple.  If someone doesn't like the way I play, they should not play with me.  If I don't like something another group likes to do, I'll opt not to play with them.  

I think we're all agreed, that as with the OP's original tee box example, if music intrudes on others outside of our group, it becomes an etiquette issue.  That's not the case in this tangential discussion though.

You continually assume that, as a single, I have the option of joining another group.  That is not always the case.  When the starter says "You will be joining X group.", I join X group, because the next chance may be 2½ hours away.  I had days in the starter booth when I only managed to find room for a couple of singles during an entire 6 hour shift.

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Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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27 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

In casual play, etiquette trumps all - that's why it is Section 1 in the rule book.  Even the USGA acknowledges that good etiquette is as important to the overall game as the rules are.  Respect for the course and for the other players on the course is at the top of every player's responsibility, regardless of whether it's casual golf or serious competition. 

If what you do outside of the necessary actions of playing the game bothers or degrades the experience for another, then you are in the wrong, and it really doesn't matter if the course allows it.

I do agree that etiquette is important and I certainly try to practice it. Unfortunately, how I act and how I've come to expect others to act are two different things.

That said, etiquette can be interpreted differently by different folks. And what used to be viewed as proper etiquette is no longer practiced. Hence the pissing contests.

Jon

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37 minutes ago, David in FL said:

You would think...

....but then the question becomes, at least for our somewhat tangential discussion, who's being discourteous?  The individual who wants to join another group but also insists that they abide by his preferences, or the group who has no objection to a stranger joining them, but does not wish to change their own style of play in doing so and only expects that the stranger will accept the manner in which the remainder of the group chooses to play?

Honestly, you don't own the tee time or the golf course so you would have wait until a tee time for 3 comes up without another golfer. I get it that is your guy's thing but if it is against the course rules you guys need to play a different time.

"My ball is on top of a rock in the hazard, do I get some sort of relief?"

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26 minutes ago, drmevo said:

But playing music DOES affect me in that I can't, per the rules, submit my round for handicap if I can hear your music. 

Is that absolutely the way the rule reads? I mean, you're not allowed to ask for advice, but if you're opponent or a spectator just starts giving it, you're not going to be penalized for that. Wouldn't it be the same thing?

I might be wrong.

Edit: I think David answered this question.

Edited by JonMA1

Jon

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9 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

Is that absolutely the way the rule reads? I mean, you're not allowed to ask for advice, but if you're opponent or a spectator just starts giving it, you're not going to be penalized for that. Wouldn't it be the same thing?

I might be wrong.

The rule says that since listening to music for an extended period can affect one's play, it is not allowed under Rule 14-3.  The intent is that it can help one to play better, but the reverse is also true, that it can be an irritant or distraction that would cause some players to play worse.  This would also have a varying degree of impact depending on one's tolerance and on the type and volume of music.  The rule doesn't include a measure of the impact, it just says that it isn't allowed because of the potential for impacting one's swing.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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25 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

You continually assume that, as a single, I have the option of joining another group.  That is not always the case.  When the starter says "You will be joining X group.", I join X group, because the next chance may be 2½ hours away.  I had days in the starter booth when I only managed to find room for a couple of singles during an entire 6 hour shift.

The fact that you don't like the options you have doesn't mean they're not there.

Now comes a decision.  Does playing in a group who choose to play in a manner different from that which you prefer bother you so much that you choose to either wait for another group, or forgo playing completely?  Or do you prefer to play with the group with somewhat different expectations for the round than your own?  Again, one of the things that comes with playing as a single.  The way to avoid that, is to play with a group of like minded people.  but, if I opt to play as a single, I know that I won't necessarily be assured that I'll be playing with people with my exact values.  That's the risk I accept.

FWIW, on  those days as a starter when you could only fit in a couple of singles, I'll bet any number of singles that you had to turn away would have been thrilled to death to find themselves paired up because another single refused to play with a group that preferred to play music, or smoke, or tell off-color jokes amongst themselves.  Beggars can't be choosers.  

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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6 minutes ago, David in FL said:

The fact that you don't like the options you have doesn't mean they're not there.

Now comes a decision.  Does playing in a group who choose to play in a manner different from that which you prefer bother you so much that you choose to either wait for another group, or forgo playing completely?  Or do you prefer to play with the group with somewhat different expectations for the round than your own?  Again, one of the things that comes with playing as a single.  The way to avoid that, is to play with a group of like minded people.  but, if I opt to play as a single, I know that I won't necessarily be assured that I'll be playing with people with my exact values.  That's the risk I accept.

FWIW, on  those days as a starter when you could only fit in a couple of singles, I'll bet any number of singles that you had to turn away would have been thrilled to death to find themselves paired up because another single refused to play with a group that preferred to play music, or smoke, or tell off-color jokes amongst themselves.  Beggars can't be choosers.  

I'll be honest.  I've never been paired with anyone so rude or full of themselves that they wouldn't leave the music off if asked (and usually they ask if it's okay), unless we were waiting on the tee for a protracted amount of time.  Most of the people I've met on the course are courteous and respectful of the other players in their group (and anyone else within normal earshot), even if they were complete strangers before the round began.  That applies to music, smoking and any other personal preferences that are not necessary for or associated with playing golf.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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3 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I'll be honest.  I've never been paired with anyone so rude or full of themselves that they wouldn't leave the music off if asked (and usually they ask if it's okay), unless we were waiting on the tee for a protracted amount of time.  Most of the people I've met on the course are courteous and respectful of the other players in their group (and anyone else within normal earshot), even if they were complete strangers before the round began.  That applies to music, smoking and any other personal preferences that are not necessary for or associated with playing golf.

I absolutely agree.  ;-)

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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5 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I'll be honest.  I've never been paired with anyone so rude or full of themselves that they wouldn't leave the music off if asked (and usually they ask if it's okay), unless we were waiting on the tee for a protracted amount of time.  Most of the people I've met on the course are courteous and respectful of the other players in their group (and anyone else within normal earshot), even if they were complete strangers before the round began.  That applies to music, smoking and any other personal preferences that are not necessary for or associated with playing golf.

I agree, every time I have had other people join me *as I always invite them to play with me if the course is slow* they have without fail made sure I was OK with them playing music on the rare occasion it has come up. What I haven't always been asked, however, is if I mind them smoking. Not that even smoking bothers me as basically all my friends and family smoke, but not being asked is a bit rude. I've never had to share a cart with someone playing music so I've only ever had to hear it part of the time, but now that I know it invalidates my round for posting purposes I'll have to remember that for future reference.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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57 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Absolutely incorrect.  Simply being within earshot of someone else playing music no more disqualifies your round, than would playing with someone who breaks other rules.

Would you care to explain?  I'm no expert, but the rule seems clear, if you listen to music for a prolonged period OR while making a stroke it's a penalty. That would include the tee boxes and putting greens.  If I can hear the music, I'm listening to it.  I get there may be a dictionary definition-level distinction between hearing and listening, but I don't believe that matters here.  

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On 29 juillet 2016 at 5:20 AM, rkim291968 said:

 more and more people are cranking up (their sh*ty)  

the music isn't crap it's just not suited to all.

I personally dont understand the loudness "I impose to all" thing. Like all those arsholes that gear up cars to wake up 80 thousand sleeping people at night.

thank god we dont have this. beaches are becoming a problem though. I've seen weapons out on rap music controversies like this although normally nobody has a gun in France (RSS collapse ended in black market trade unfortunatly), we only sponsor terrorists with social help (much higher revenu offered for nothing done ever than in home country working 24/7).

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8 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Would you care to explain?  I'm no expert, but the rule seems clear, if you listen to music for a prolonged period OR while making a stroke it's a penalty. That would include the tee boxes and putting greens.  If I can hear the music, I'm listening to it.  I get there may be a dictionary definition-level distinction between hearing and listening, but I don't believe that matters here.  

I agree that there is probably a bit of distinction that could occur here, but not to the extent that Dave is indicating. If you are playing and overhear music coming from another group, house, or other source I don't think that would be grounds for invalidating your round, However, if you agree to play with people in your group who are listening to music then you have invalidated your round. The difference is you are either verbally or non verbally accepting or agreeing to have music playing during play.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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7 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I agree that there is probably a bit of distinction that could occur here, but not to the extent that Dave is indicating. If you are playing and overhear music coming from another group, house, or other source I don't think that would be grounds for invalidating your round, However, if you agree to play with people in your group who are listening to music then you have invalidated your round. The difference is you are either verbally or non verbally accepting or agreeing to have music playing during play.

No you haven't.  No more than playing with someone who violates any other rule invalidates your round.  You're no agreeing to waive the rules and you have no control over what they do.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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1 minute ago, David in FL said:

No you haven't.  No more than playing with someone who violates any other rule invalidates your round.  You're no agreeing to waive the rules and you have no control over what they do.

If you agree to play with people listening to music you are 100% agreeing to listening to music while you play, which is against the rules. I agree you don't have control over what they do, but you have control over what you do which includes playing with them while they listen to music.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Note: This thread is 2785 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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