Becoming a European Tour Pro

[Pendragon]

  On 9/8/2016 at 6:36 PM, StefanUrkel said:

Looking through the threads here, there have been quite a few people that have become professionals. 

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Being a professional and being a good player don't necessarily go hand in hand. Through the years I've know quite a few PGA pros who couldn't break 75...and a few who couldn't break 80 if their lives depended on it. Others, of course, were exceptional players.

Connor is talking about playing on the European Tour even though he's only played golf for about a year and shoots in the mid 80's. He seems to think that it would be easier to play in Europe than it would be to play on the PGA Tour, but I'd question whether it's all that much easier. The talent doesn't run quite as deep, for sure, but guys named McIlroy, Willett, Grace, Oosthuizen, and Stenson (among many others) play there. I'm not saying he can't achieve his goal, but he's facing a really brutal challenge. As others have pointed out, I might be a good idea to have a solid Plan B just in case.

[newtogolf]

  On 9/9/2016 at 2:32 PM, Marty2019 said:

To all you guys who say, "If you want something bad enough, you can get it," I have to say, that is absolutely not true.   It's a competitive world, and there are millions of people who put total effort into achieving their dreams, and a lot of them don't make it because they don't have the one essential ingredient they have to have to make it to the top.   TALENT.   If I am 5 foot 8, 150 pounds, and I want to become an NFL offensive lineman, does anyone really think if I just try hard enough I can make it? 

Seriously, don't say, "If you want something bad enough, you can get it," because it's just not true. 

 

 

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Well said, desire only gets you so far, it takes talent / genetics, luck, money, lots of effort and perseverance that most people don't possess.  

I'd guess almost every pro has the desire to hit it as far as DJ.  Even at the very top, there are attributes that differentiate one pro from another.  

[Grinde6]

  On 9/9/2016 at 2:32 PM, Marty2019 said:

To all you guys who say, "If you want something bad enough, you can get it," I have to say, that is absolutely not true.   It's a competitive world, and there are millions of people who put total effort into achieving their dreams, and a lot of them don't make it because they don't have the one essential ingredient they have to have to make it to the top.   TALENT.   If I am 5 foot 8, 150 pounds, and I want to become an NFL offensive lineman, does anyone really think if I just try hard enough I can make it? 

Seriously, don't say, "If you want something bad enough, you can get it," because it's just not true. 

 

 

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If you wanted to be an offensive lineman in the NFL I would tell you it's impossible.  That comparison with your height and weight is assanine to compare with a person wanting to be a pro golfer.  If you wanted to be a running back or slot receiver in the NFL (Amendola, Woodhead, etc) type stats I would say if you wanted it bad enough and put on some muscle weight and worked your a$$ off it could happen.  Who is anyone else to say if can't.

[bkuehn1952]

This is a good discussion but the question was:

"What do you guys think would be the latest age to really start making a push to compete on the European tour?"

None of us are in a position to evaluate the original poster's talent, drive, physical attributes, etc...  Certainly at 18 years old, not having played golf for very long, the odds are long.  Some people have made it on professional tours starting golf late.

[70sSanO]

  On 9/9/2016 at 11:43 PM, bkuehn1952 said:

This is a good discussion but the question was:

"What do you guys think would be the latest age to really start making a push to compete on the European tour?"

None of us are in a position to evaluate the original poster's talent, drive, physical attributes, etc...  Certainly at 18 years old, not having played golf for very long, the odds are long.  Some people have made it on professional tours starting golf late.

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If the OP is serious he needs to get his swing/game evaluated by an experienced teaching/former tour pro.

IMO, the OP age answer has to do with the maturity of his swing.  I would think he has to be able to hit long and pretty straight at this point in time and the lessons are needed to improve his shot making and short game.

John

[iacas]

  On 9/9/2016 at 1:51 PM, IanW said:

I agree. Drive is the most important thing. If you want it bad enough you can find a way to do it.

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Uhhhh, no.

  On 9/9/2016 at 2:13 PM, Grinde6 said:

Ya, pretty dickish...and there aren't even close to 350,000 scratch golfers...

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You sure about that?

1.6% of 25 million (just in the U.S.) is 400,000.

http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/handicap-index-statistics/mens-handicap-index-statistics-d24e6096.html

[allenc]

  On 9/9/2016 at 11:43 PM, bkuehn1952 said:

This is a good discussion but the question was:

"What do you guys think would be the latest age to really start making a push to compete on the European tour?"

None of us are in a position to evaluate the original poster's talent, drive, physical attributes, etc...  Certainly at 18 years old, not having played golf for very long, the odds are long.  Some people have made it on professional tours starting golf late.

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Has anyone ever started at 17, got down to an 80s shooter after one year, then gone on to play in a major tour?  I don't know but my guess is the answer is no.  

I'll go out on a limb and say ten years from now there may be at most one player who fits that description on tour.  Maybe a 20% chance.  Maybe it will be the op.  He's got to be the 1 in 3 million of those 18ish year old bogeyish golfers who makes it if the 20% chance comes in.  So multiplying probabilities it's 1 in 15 million.  Not bad.

[IanW]

  On 9/9/2016 at 11:21 PM, Grinde6 said:

If you wanted to be an offensive lineman in the NFL I would tell you it's impossible.  That comparison with your height and weight is assanine to compare with a person wanting to be a pro golfer.  If you wanted to be a running back or slot receiver in the NFL (Amendola, Woodhead, etc) type stats I would say if you wanted it bad enough and put on some muscle weight and worked your a$$ off it could happen.  Who is anyone else to say if can't.

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I completely agree with you. Golf is a sport where one's physical size is largely irrelevant. All shapes and sizes on the tour.

Mike Weir. 5 foot 6 and 110lbs soaking wet. I'm not sure if there is a smaller player on tour, but he had an amazing career in the era of the bomb and gougers. He probably averaged a whole 260 off the tee. If he hit 2 or 3 a year that went 280 I would be impressed.

 

 

[IanW]

  On 9/9/2016 at 2:05 PM, Valleygolfer said:

Some of your dedication points are true but the Dan plan proved that sheer effort and time doesn't mean you are going to get there.

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Dan didn't have the desire. He stopped and gave up. That is the anti-thesis to desire.

Even though Dan had the worst plan ever if he was a junior improving at the rates he did (from never playing golf to a 5 handicap with a few rounds under par in 2 years) he would have the top junior coaches of the area he lives in talking to him. Unfortunately, Dan was old and didn't work with the right people. Then good old desire kicked in. When he wasn't improving like he wanted to he gave up rather than worked harder.

 

[natureboy]

  On 9/10/2016 at 2:12 AM, iacas said:

You sure about that?

1.6% of 25 million (just in the U.S.) is 400,000.

http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/handicap-index-statistics/mens-handicap-index-statistics-d24e6096.html

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Tthat 25 million number includes golfers who only played one round a year. I think the population of golfers with handicaps is much, much smaller than that 'all U.S. golfers' number derived from the Golf Foundation surveys. The population of golfers in the U.S. with handicaps is about 2.3 million, or about 37,000 confirmed scratch players. Golfers who play once per year are extremely unlikely to be scratch players though there may be a small smattering of former and a few potential scratch players in there.

I think @Grinde6 was on target as the number looks to be from ~40,000 (confirmed) up to ~ 160,000 if you generously use the population of golfers playing 15-25+ rounds per year.

[wedgehammer40k]

I think I have the formula, borrowed from a certain Mike Shinoda:

" This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
Fifteen percent concentrated power of will
Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name! "

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by wedgehammer40k

[IanW]

  On 9/10/2016 at 2:12 AM, iacas said:

Uhhhh, no.

 

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Uhhhh, yes.

[iacas]

  On 9/13/2016 at 2:59 PM, natureboy said:

Tthat 25 million number includes golfers who only played one round a year.

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It also doesn't include the entire rest of the world.

It also doesn't include people who don't keep handicaps… like pros.

I figured you'd say that, and you predictably failed to consider those other things. And I'm not saying that I'm right… hence "you sure about that?" followed by some things to make the person to whom I was responding think.

  On 9/14/2016 at 12:40 PM, IanW said:

Uhhhh, yes.

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Bullshit.

You can have all the drive in the world and not ever get better than a six handicap if you don't have the talent. Or speed. Or whatever.

[IanW]

  On 9/14/2016 at 12:46 PM, iacas said:

Bullshit.

You can have all the drive in the world and not ever get better than a six handicap if you don't have the talent. Or speed. Or whatever.

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Bullshit.

You can do anything if you have drive. Drive will foster talent, speed, or whatever.

[ZappyAd]

The later you leave it to start the less likely you are to make it, and that probably applies to most sports. There are very few competitive arenas where you are able to become one of the best in a continent in 5-7 years, regardless of how much talent you have. This is especially true where large amounts of money are up for grabs.  Even more so where most of your competitors start working at 4,5,6 years old.

Could you be the exception?  Of course you could be!  First question is, seeing as you are the only person here that has seen yourself play golf, do you think you are that good?

[boogielicious]

  On 9/14/2016 at 12:55 PM, IanW said:

Bullshit.

You can do anything if you have drive. Drive will foster talent, speed, or whatever.

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Seriously? Ok, go sculpt a copy of Michaelangelo's David. Solve the Grand Unification Theory in Physics. Go run a sub-4 minute mile. Become an astronaut. Squat 750 pounds. You just need to want it enough! ?

[iacas]

  On 9/14/2016 at 12:55 PM, IanW said:

Bullshit.

You can do anything if you have drive. Drive will foster talent, speed, or whatever.

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That's laughable. You're wrong.

  On 9/14/2016 at 1:32 PM, boogielicious said:

Seriously? Ok, go sculpt a copy of Michaelangelo's David. Solve the Grand Unification Theory in Physics. Go run a sub-4 minute mile. Become an astronaut. Squat 750 pounds. You just need to want it enough! ?

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Seriously.

There are a ton of guys who wanted to be professional athletes. You're gonna tell all of them that they simply didn't want it enough? They'll laugh in your face.

[IanW]

  On 9/14/2016 at 1:35 PM, iacas said:

That's laughable. You're wrong.

Seriously.

There are a ton of guys who wanted to be professional athletes. You're gonna tell all of them that they simply didn't want it enough? They'll laugh in your face.

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Fortunately I am not wrong. There has been lots of research in the social psychology field to back up my position. However, I will correct myself slightly, because perhaps it is the cause of the misunderstanding. Here is my thesis:

Taking two people and an indeterminate duration, the individual with more drive/motivation/dedication will advance a given skill beyond that of the individual with the lower drive/motivation/dedication regardless of 'talent' or initial level of skill.

So yes, this isn't exactly 'you can have anything if you try hard enough'. I forgot that I can't paraphrase or dumb things down with you guys :)

If you want to get into the gory details you can read Carol Dweck's research as she is one of the pioneers of this type of stuff in the late 70s. Golf is actually extremely ripe for this research given it is a very results oriented sport with little impact from outside forces as compared to other sports. Unfortunately, a copy of an artists art is much more subjective so would be difficult to assess. Soccer players, one of the focus of Dweck's research is somewhere in the middle. 

Her paper entitled "Static versus dynamic theories and the perception of groups: Different routes to different destinations" is a particularly good read for this scenario. It should largely explain how your opinion that there has to be something special about a person in order for them to achieve something is likely causing you to turn away 'untalented' students that do in fact have the drive to eventually play golf at a professional level. There is a big change in the coaching world (largely in hockey that I am familiar with, sadly golf appears to be behind the times) to try and deter this attitude because it is 'old school' thinking that is actually incorrect. This research area has been embraced by a few countries with regards to hockey (notably Sweden in the late 80s) and they are now reaping rewards having moved from low positions at international events to now competing for first place over the last 10 years.

That said, if you have research (ie: not anecdotal evidence) that disputes the above claims I would love to read it.