Presidential Candidates Debate

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Exactly, the federal government doesn't send extra military to protect the higher tax brackets, set aside inter-state roads that only the wealthy can drive on, the wealthy don't benefit form any of the things our federal taxes goes toward so why shouldn't the lower income citizens contribute too?

I didn't say that. I don't know enough about any of this to know how much lower income earners pay relative to what they "should" pay or anything like that.

Generally speaking, if you're a lower income earner, you should probably be able to keep more of it so you can, you know, survive. Whether you call that a form of entitlement or what… I don't care. Someone making say $20k/year probably shouldn't pay much of that in taxes, or it seems to me that they'd just get it back in other ways (food stamps?).

[Dave2512]

The problem for Trump as it relates to debate fodder is Clinton's issues have been talked about ad nauseam and then some. Doesn't matter whether someone agrees with her answers or not but it's old news and doesn't have the same impact, there isn't much that can be said that hasn't been said already, if it didn't hang her then it's not going to now. Besides the answer shouldn't be well he/she did this which is not only coming from the candidates but voters and that's not a defense. It's getting silly that legit criticisms are being met with finger pointing in the other direction, more so from DT's camp than HC's because she's been defending hers 4 years or so. It didn't work well for DT in the first debate and likely won't in the next two. She smiled through it effectively bouncing it off her and he met her attacks by becoming irritated.

[Golfingdad]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

I kind of doubt you really understand "the loophole [he's] using."

Pedantics.  The topic is him losing 1 billion in one year and then not paying federal taxes for the next 18.  You've repeatedly scoffed at this notion of him not paying federal taxes from the point @phillyk brought it up and you keep repeating "rich people pay a lot of taxes" without addressing the actual point.

He basically said it himself in the debate, and it's been documented as well ... he had the opportunity to not pay federal taxes for 18 years, so he either did that and was "smart" or he didn't and was whatever DT thinks is the opposite of smart.

28 minutes ago, iacas said:

And why should "rich people" pay more?

I didn't say they should or shouldn't.

36 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I don't understand the fascination with his tax information myself.

As @Dave2512 pointed out - he made it the issue.  And just in this very election, Trump said during a primary debate: "I know people that are making a tremendous amount of money and paying virtually no tax, and I think it's unfair."

Now if you can't see the problem with that then, I don't know what to tell you.

And you're actually comparing this - the idea that he'd be the first presidential candidate in 40 or whatever years to not release his tax returns with Trumps racist "birther" bullshit?  That's rich.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Pedantics.

I disagree, but… whatever.

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

You've repeatedly scoffed at this notion

I would not characterize anything I've said about this as scoffing. I've got a pretty good source on that one, too… me.

I think it's pretty obvious to me that you're going to see things with Trump a certain way, and your responses go beyond just trying to point out bad arguments, leading you to make some of your own.

Let's stick to discussing the debates themselves. Again, there's a new one tonight.

[newtogolf]

34 minutes ago, iacas said:

I didn't say that. I don't know enough about any of this to know how much lower income earners pay relative to what they "should" pay or anything like that.

Generally speaking, if you're a lower income earner, you should probably be able to keep more of it so you can, you know, survive. Whether you call that a form of entitlement or what… I don't care. Someone making say $20k/year probably shouldn't pay much of that in taxes, or it seems to me that they'd just get it back in other ways (food stamps?).

They don't have to contribute much, but it shouldn't be a free ride either. 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

They don't have to contribute much, but it shouldn't be a free ride either. 

Well that's specific.

The topic is the debates, please. Final notice.

This isn't a thread to discuss whatever politics you want.

[Chilli Dipper]

It's hard to get too excited about the VP debate; Kaine and Pence could be the most anonymous running mates in my lifetime, at least in their exposure on the campaign trail.

I guess the interesting thing could be how Pence connects Trump to mainstream Republican politics. A decent debate performance won't save the ticket, but it could provide some good press, which the Trump campaign really needs right now.

[drmevo]

1 minute ago, Chilli Dipper said:

It's hard to get too excited about the VP debate; Kaine and Pence could be the most anonymous running mates in my lifetime, at least in their exposure on the campaign trail.

Agreed. I might watch some of it but it's not like I'm blocking off my evening to tune in.  Plus, VP debates don't seem to have a huge impact on the general election. I don't have any data to back that up but it's just my feeling.

That said, in terms of public perception, it seems Trump has been more on the defensive than Hillary in the past week so it will be interesting to see how Pence will try to deflect all of that. I'm guessing more of the same about her being a Washington insider, never ran a business, etc.

[Dave2512]

But doesn't a connection to mainstream republican politics belie Trump's message that his anti-establishment ideas are unique to him? He's been fighting opposition from prominent republicans all year, even MP is on the record as being on the other side of Trump, pro life etc. The (valid) complaint in the primaries from Trump's GOP rivals was he's a democrat in disguise. The only real support he's getting from people like Ryan is in a united we stand or fall context everything else has been trying to downplay Trump's gaffes.

Seems the only people in his party that really want him to win are the extremists the rest would love a Clinton 4 year misfire to ensure they retain seats as her more sensible opposition. If MP goes old-school GOP in the debate is it a mixed message or security blanket for moderate republican voters that hope the people around DT can restrain him while he learns on the job. People that would likely bail if the other choice was anybody but Clinton.

[newtogolf]

I think there's a really good chance that one of these two guys could end up being POTUS.  

If Trump wins, he's got to be a big target for assassination or impeachment and if Hillary wins, her health or legal issues could make her unfit to serve.  

I'll be watching this one as I don't think the odds favor either candidate making it the full term.  

[Dave2512]

There is no real evidence HC has health issues that would prevent her from serving a term and anything legal needs to happen in the next 30 days and it's not going to happen. I seriously doubt anyone watching tonight's debate is tuning in to make that assessment. The heartbeat away thing always comes up but as a hypothetical question.

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I think there's a really good chance that one of these two guys could end up being POTUS.  

If Trump wins, he's got to be a big target for assassination or impeachment and if Hillary wins, her health or legal issues could make her unfit to serve.  

I'll be watching this one as I don't think the odds favor either candidate making it the full term.  

Uhhhhhh… okay. Health concerns, really? That's what you're going with?

[Chilli Dipper]

1 hour ago, Dave2512 said:

But doesn't a connection to mainstream republican politics belie Trump's message that his anti-establishment ideas are unique to him? He's been fighting opposition from prominent republicans all year, even MP is on the record as being on the other side of Trump, pro life etc. The (valid) complaint in the primaries from Trump's GOP rivals was he's a democrat in disguise. The only real support he's getting from people like Ryan is in a united we stand or fall context everything else has been trying to downplay Trump's gaffes.

Seems the only people in his party that really want him to win are the extremists the rest would love a Clinton 4 year misfire to ensure they retain seats as her more sensible opposition. If MP goes old-school GOP in the debate is it a mixed message or security blanket for moderate republican voters that hope the people around DT can restrain him while he learns on the job. People that would likely bail if the other choice was anybody but Clinton.

As what was mentioned in the article I linked to, rank-and-file Republicans have come around to Trump; or at least, they started this cycle to support anyone but Hillary, and they guess Trump counts as that. Those who think they can keep Trump in line are fooling themselves, but if he does become president, he and GOP policymakers are going to have to find some common ground.

39 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

There is no real evidence HC has health issues that would prevent her from serving a term and anything legal needs to happen in the next 30 days and it's not going to happen. I seriously doubt anyone watching tonight's debate is tuning in to make that assessment. The heartbeat away thing always comes up but as a hypothetical question.

There is a certain segment of Trump supporters who are convinced that Wikileaks is going to save them, and stayed up until the early hours this morning waiting for Julian Assange to drop a Hillary-destroying bombshell. As it turns out, Assange only came out to talk about how great he is, and Alex Jones became more deranged than normal.

[Dave2512]

CNN was showing clips of TK's previous debates and despite his usual goofy art teacher on whippets look he was brutal. Which was a change from his DNC appearance that really didn't take off despite his obvious excitement. I haven't seen much of MP but at the RNC he was a human sleeping pill. The VP debates are akin to that feeling of standing in the beer line while the opening act is performing, not real exciting. No offense intended to art teachers.

[newtogolf]

5 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

CNN was showing clips of TK's previous debates and despite his usual goofy art teacher on whippets look he was brutal. Which was a change from his DNC appearance that really didn't take off despite his obvious excitement. I haven't seen much of MP but at the RNC he was a human sleeping pill. The VP debates are akin to that feeling of standing in the beer line while the opening act is performing, not real exciting. No offense intended to art teachers.

Pence has to balance his own political positions against Trumps, and they don't align all that well.  I'm curious if Pence will tow the Trump line or state his own beliefs which are much more in line with the hard right conservatives.  

[Gunther]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

I think there's a really good chance that one of these two guys could end up being POTUS.  

If Trump wins, he's got to be a big target for assassination or impeachment and if Hillary wins, her health or legal issues could make her unfit to serve.  

I'll be watching this one as I don't think the odds favor either candidate making it the full term.  

Damn dude, that's kinda dark.

[Ernest Jones]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

I think there's a really good chance that one of these two guys could end up being POTUS.  

If Trump wins, he's got to be a big target for assassination or impeachment and if Hillary wins, her health or legal issues could make her unfit to serve.  

I'll be watching this one as I don't think the odds favor either candidate making it the full term.  

She basically had what amounts to a really, really bad cold. 

I don't think chicken soup and some rest will do much for what ails The Donald. 

[Dave2512]

Stage 4 terminal walking pneumonia.