Cheating

[StefanUrkel]

See what comes out on top

Edited October 7, 2016 by StefanUrkel

[David in FL]

You're kidding, right?

Then again, I'm often surprised by what others do at times...

[Ernest Jones]

Never played competitive golf, but if I did, I'd play by the rules. Winning isn't worth more to me than my integrity. 

[mcanadiens]

I guess its the purposely portion of the question that's the major qualifier. If we are being realistic about it, it is very likely that we've done something to violate a rule somewhere in a tournament or match. I think different people have different levels of awareness of these sort of things. 

Who here has ever grounded a club in a sand trap and not admitted it?

Who here has ever accidentally tapped the ball with the club and ignored it?

There may not have been purposeful cheating in the original commission of the act, but it is purposeful cheating when you chose to ignore your own violations.

[bkuehn1952]

I have cheated by ignoring others errors.  I am supposed to "protect the field." When someone is rolling into the backstretch with a 102 gross/93 net, and the player announces he is not going back to re-tee a ball that we can't find on #18, yes, I am guilty.  

[Elmer]

  On 10/7/2016 at 12:19 PM, mcanadiens said:

I guess its the purposely portion of the question that's the major qualifier. If we are being realistic about it, it is very likely that we've done something to violate a rule somewhere in a tournament or match. I think different people have different levels of awareness of these sort of things. 

Who here has ever grounded a club in a sand trap and not admitted it?

 

 

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I have never played competitively. But I have played club & league tournaments and outings. I have also played for money, not much. In all these instances I play by the rules that have been outlined and agreed upon by whom ever is playing or presiding.

My simple thought on cheating is-regardless if you ever get caught, you still know you did it.

That being said, about 10 years ago when I was just starting out I was playing in a friend's league outing. I ended up in a bunker, a nasty bunker! Having been a complete noob, with not only a lack of touch in a bunker, but not even an idea of the rules, grounded my club in the bunker.
One of the guys in my group came over and chastised me for grounding my club and reminded me it was against the rule. I reminded him that this was my 7th attempt at getting out of the bunker. I ended up with a 12 on a par 3, about a 130 over all.
I dont think I counted the grounding of the club.
I may burn in golf hell for my oversight!

  On 10/7/2016 at 12:46 PM, bkuehn1952 said:

I have cheated by ignoring others errors.  I am supposed to "protect the field." When someone is rolling into the backstretch with a 102 gross/93 net, and the player announces he is not going back to re-tee a ball that we can't find on #18, yes, I am guilty.  

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I unfortunately have done this many, many times!

[Chanceman]

I have a friend who regularly kicks his ball into a better lie when in the rough. What can you say?

[mcanadiens]

  On 10/7/2016 at 1:06 PM, Chanceman said:

I have a friend who regularly kicks his ball into a better lie when in the rough. What can you say?

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Right, but here we are talking about competition. Competition can be at the relatively modest level of a club tournament or something more. When I play with my buddies I know what they are going to do. One takes no-penalty drops anytime he needs to. Another will fluff up his shot whether it needs it or not (particularly funny on the rare occasions he's in the middle of the fairway). I'm not competing with these guys. I'm playing my round of golf with them.

  On 10/7/2016 at 12:46 PM, bkuehn1952 said:

I have cheated by ignoring others errors.  I am supposed to "protect the field." When someone is rolling into the backstretch with a 102 gross/93 net, and the player announces he is not going back to re-tee a ball that we can't find on #18, yes, I am guilty.  

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This is a very hard thing. Most of us have confrontations every day working. When we aren't making money of it, why would you want more of that in your recreation. Plus, there is a point of practicality like that situation.

[Gunther]

I've cheated relative to the rules of golf in both tournaments and money games.  But never have I cheated relative the rules established for that round.  E.g., in some of the tournaments I've played in, it's been preferred lies, for no reason really (wasn't wet), so I've taken advantage.  In our money games we allow pulling out of divots or footprints in a bunker, or rake and place if the bunkers are shit, I've done all that too.  But I've always played by the rules established for that particular round.

[Vinny Cap]

I dont think many have "PURPOSELY cheated" but many, like myself, did not know all the Rules Of Golf at one point.  I try my hardest to play by the rules all the time but in a lot of leagues and special tourneys you will find like Elmer said. "I play by the rules that have been outlined and agreed upon by whom ever is playing or presiding."  This is fine as long as everyone agrees on any changes or adjustments before they start golfing.  Adjusting them as you go along is BS!

If you choose to play by your own rules, so be it.  Just dont tell me you beat me when you are not counting the 2 OB balls, not adding the gimmie strokes when putting and taking 2 or 3 mulligans per side.

[Fourputt]

  On 10/7/2016 at 12:19 PM, mcanadiens said:

Who here has ever accidentally tapped the ball with the club and ignored it?

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This is not even a breach unless the ball moves.  If it just oscillates, then there is no penalty.  If the ball comes to rest in a different position, then it would be a breach and you would be cheating to not call it.

I don't consider it to be cheating if a player commits a breach through ignorance.  It's not excusable, but it's not cheating.  Cheating requires intent to defraud.  For that reason, it isn't really cheating unless it is done to gain an unfair advantage in a competition of some sort, even if it's just a wager among friends (who won't be your friends for long if they find out that you are a cheater). 

If you breach a rule that you are unaware of, you haven't cheated.  If you are informed later of the error and don't correct your score, then you are cheating.

[StefanUrkel]

  On 10/7/2016 at 11:26 AM, David in FL said:

You're kidding, right?

Then again, I'm often surprised by what others do at times...

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Most people didn't think football/baseball player used roids for years. Majority of college kids cheat in school at some point. Why should cheating in golf be any different? It is human nature.

[TripleEagle]

obviously no one chose that they currently cheat, but based on the people i've played with in the past the vast majority of people have at some point cheated- even if it's on accident.

[DaveP043]

  On 10/7/2016 at 3:40 PM, Fourputt said:

This is not even a breach unless the ball moves.  If it just oscillates, then there is no penalty.  If the ball comes to rest in a different position, then it would be a breach and you would be cheating to not call it.

I don't consider it to be cheating if a player commits a breach through ignorance.  It's not excusable, but it's not cheating.  Cheating requires intent to defraud.  For that reason, it isn't really cheating unless it is done to gain an unfair advantage in a competition of some sort, even if it's just a wager among friends (who won't be your friends for long if they find out that you are a cheater). 

If you breach a rule that you are unaware of, you haven't cheated.  If you are informed later of the error and don't correct your score, then you are cheating.

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  On 10/7/2016 at 4:58 PM, TripleEagle said:

obviously no one chose that they currently cheat, but based on the people i've played with in the past the vast majority of people have at some point cheated- even if it's on accident.

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I'm with @Fourputt on this, in cheating is by definition intentional.  If you break a rule because you don't know the rules well enough, that's pretty common, and excusable to a point.  I'm virtually certain that I've done that, but I'm also sure that it happens less frequently as I continue to learn about the rules.  If someone points out a rule violation to you, try to accept the penalty gracefully, and learn from it.  But if you take a look around to see who's watching, and then knowingly break a rule, there's no excuse for that.  

[TripleEagle]

  On 10/7/2016 at 5:03 PM, DaveP043 said:

 

I'm with @Fourputt on this, in cheating is by definition intentional.  If you break a rule because you don't know the rules well enough, that's pretty common, and excusable to a point.  I'm virtually certain that I've done that, but I'm also sure that it happens less frequently as I continue to learn about the rules.  If someone points out a rule violation to you, try to accept the penalty gracefully, and learn from it.  But if you take a look around to see who's watching, and then knowingly break a rule, there's no excuse for that.  

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I would still say that a large number of golfers (especially young) have cheated purposely, whether it be that they purposely say "Bogey" instead of "Double" or sit their ball up on some grass when their competitors aren't looking, I still see it happen in almost every tournament I play in, but yet everyone says they didn't or don't cheat.

[DaveP043]

  On 10/7/2016 at 5:36 PM, TripleEagle said:

I would still say that a large number of golfers (especially young) have cheated purposely, whether it be that they purposely say "Bogey" instead of "Double" or sit their ball up on some grass when their competitors aren't looking, I still see it happen in almost every tournament I play in, but yet everyone says they didn't or don't cheat.

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There's only one remedy, when you see it happen, report it.  Right away, to the player's fellow-competitors if its not your group, or to your entire group if the player is with you.  Don't tolerate it.  If you're aware of it in a competition, and you allow it, you're guilty too.

[TripleEagle]

  On 10/7/2016 at 5:41 PM, DaveP043 said:

There's only one remedy, when you see it happen, report it.  Right away, to the player's fellow-competitors if its not your group, or to your entire group if the player is with you.  Don't tolerate it.  If you're aware of it in a competition, and you allow it, you're guilty too.

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Exactly I always report it if I know it happens, but only if im positive it happened. I've been accused of cheating when I didn't and it's a huge moral killer and it really pisses you off; ruining your game.

[CoachB25]

I used to get to golf with a group of guys that were seniors and real good men.  However, once in a great while, we would have this guy who would show up and in no uncertain terms, he was a cheat.  Unfortunately, he started to show up more and the core group of guys either changed the time that they played and one changed courses.  Why do people cheat?  I not only can't understand it, I sometimes get out of control over it.  I think I am the reason that these guys made changes because one day I could not let it go.  We were only playing for who would buy a drink at the turn but this guy never bought.  He always was "creative" in his score.  So, one day I told him he needed to buy and when he complained, I went through his score card the way it should have read.  He was off by 5 strokes.  I do regret it and should have just let it go.