"Playing From a Position" à la Jim Venetos

[Vinsk]

48 minutes ago, Robos said:

Hmm, I think what he’s saying..,

when he opens the face of his 9i it’s naturally not square in the same way it was unopened at impact, yet he hit a tight draw. So I think what he’s really saying is don’t worry about your club face, just worry about staying closed through impact and you’ll get a tight draw - and to do that maintain still weight.

However, for me this simply does not work. Maintaining still weight through impact doesn’t always produce a tight draw. Shoulders/etc move despite your weight.

I can stay still..as far what he means in this swing method, yet still hit a draw or a fade. The entire swing my weight is on my lead leg. When Jim hits his fade he says nothing about changing weight. So if he’s able to hit a fade or draw when remaining still, then something else is controlling the face.

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Keeping weight still squares the club face because weight squares the club face? I don’t see this at all. Weight is not connected to the club. People can do all sorts of things with their hands which are directly connected to the club and manipulate the club face. I understand he’s main concept is ‘stillness’ but he’s not still. His arms are moving the club and he has to hold the club all during this movement. I think he’s assuming anyone will just grip the club properly and make the backswing without doing anything with their hands. Weight squares the club face? I don’t see where he gets this idea. Anyone agree? 

Yup. You don’t have to shift whatsoever and you can open the club face. Hell I can do it sitting down. It’s a function of what your hands, wrists, and forearms are doing and has nothing to do with where your “weight” is.

People not knowing how to take a club back without fanning it open need to learn what if feels like to keep the club face square in the takeaway, but has nothing to do with his funky setup. It does nothing to inhibit hand movement.

[Robos]

3 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I can stay still..as far what he means in this swing method, yet still hit a draw or a fade. The entire swing my weight is on my lead leg. When Jim hits his fade he says nothing about changing weight. So if he’s able to hit a fade or draw when remaining still, then something else is controlling the face.

For fades you open your stance. Weight/etc remains the same but by opening up you deliver a glancing strike.

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, Robos said:

For fades you open your stance. Weight/etc remains the same but by opening up you deliver a glancing strike.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you only seem to post in this thread. There are a lot of other great threads on this site.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Robos said:

For fades you open your stance. Weight/etc remains the same but by opening up you deliver a glancing strike.

That’s not what Jim teaches. His video of him hitting a fade then a draw..he doesn’t open his stance.

And really...though it’s a bit difficult to see I’m not sure those ball flights are fade/draw if you watch closely.

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

That’s not what Jim teaches. His video of him hitting a fade then a draw..he doesn’t open his stance.

His alignment does change slightly. Look at the A1 photos here. Fade left, draw right.

Also, did either ball actually curve? Barely if so. And… it's pretty obvious he's making some sizable changes to his swing to shape the ball differently. Changes that go well beyond just alignment.

[Vinsk]

33 minutes ago, iacas said:

Also, did either ball actually curve?

Yeah not really sure either. If so neither showed much curve from what I see. Either way I think Jim is underestimating what he thinks he isn’t doing and over estimating what he thinks ‘stillness’ produces.

[billchao]

42 minutes ago, iacas said:

And… it's pretty obvious he's making some sizable changes to his swing to shape the ball differently. Changes that go well beyond just alignment.

That's what I saw, too. He's making some big swing changes to shape the ball. Stuff that people looking towards his method probably aren't going to be able to do.

[Vinsk]

27 minutes ago, billchao said:

That's what I saw, too. He's making some big swing changes to shape the ball. Stuff that people looking towards his method probably aren't going to be able to do.

This is really why I left his ‘school.’ I still use this method and am having my best ball striking in a long time....but things come up..questions ...side hill lies...recover shots that require a slice, and his answer is always stillness and/or weight stays forward. I know beyond any doubt I keep my weight forward and get the occasional fat shot which he believes is only attributed to shifting my weight. No. I didn’t. 

[Robos]

12 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you only seem to post in this thread. There are a lot of other great threads on this site.

I only post where my interest lies - plus I only get sandbox emails for this thread and the mevo one. No offense taken.

11 hours ago, Vinsk said:

That’s not what Jim teaches. His video of him hitting a fade then a draw..he doesn’t open his stance.

And really...though it’s a bit difficult to see I’m not sure those ball flights are fade/draw if you watch closely.

It’s what Jim teaches and you can see it in the video. It’s hard to tell by looking at his feet because the camera angle, but his left foot is more away from the ball with a fade than draw. Also, look at his arms at setup, there is a difference. If he was playing a cut you probably wouldn’t see his left arm at all and his left leg would be very far from the ball.

[Robos]

9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

This is really why I left his ‘school.’ I still use this method and am having my best ball striking in a long time....but things come up..questions ...side hill lies...recover shots that require a slice, and his answer is always stillness and/or weight stays forward. I know beyond any doubt I keep my weight forward and get the occasional fat shot which he believes is only attributed to shifting my weight. No. I didn’t. 

With his swing I can play cuts/fades/draws no problem. However, still weight and a setup position isn’t the complete answer, and I too hit fat shots despite still weight. Jim’s answer would be you’re not 100% focused on still weight but are manipulating your arms in some way because Non-manipulated arms will always return back to the proper impact position. Maybe that’s true in some way, but I can’t do it because my arms are always in my subconscious.

His swing is artful IMO - in his downswing the club just falls to hip level while his right shoulder is pinned and he explodes through the ball. I’d love to have a swing like his, and he says to get it your arms have to be like noodles, you can’t even feel them. Easier said than done.

11 hours ago, iacas said:

His alignment does change slightly. Look at the A1 photos here. Fade left, draw right.

Also, did either ball actually curve? Barely if so. And… it's pretty obvious he's making some sizable changes to his swing to shape the ball differently. Changes that go well beyond just alignment.

He plays a stock 3 yard draw/fade. It probably did curve 3 yards but it would be hard to see. 

[GolfLug]

I don't get what is 'his' about this swing. To me it seems like his weight/alignment starts where good players are between A4 and A5. Is that it? If so, yeah, it will help some. But plenty hit shitty shots from this position still since it is no guarantee that they will maintain turn rates through downswing. 

And yes, I think noodle arms are easier said than done (prolly the bigger trick here). I hit acceptable shots from a weird start position and poor rotation by 'cheating' with noodle arms and shoot mid-low 80s quite often. I know it's a compensation that I have for an anatomical reason. But on days my arms are not free-wheeling, I hit push slices and duck hooks all day.  

Edited May 8, 2020 by GolfLug

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Robos said:

I only post where my interest lies - plus I only get sandbox emails for this thread and the mevo one.

Your interest in golf extends to two things only:

• This swing.
• The Mevo?

I don't believe you.

5 hours ago, Robos said:

It’s what Jim teaches and you can see it in the video. It’s hard to tell by looking at his feet because the camera angle, but his left foot is more away from the ball with a fade than draw. Also, look at his arms at setup, there is a difference. If he was playing a cut you probably wouldn’t see his left arm at all and his left leg would be very far from the ball.

He does a lot more within the swing itself than change his alignment.

[Robos]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

He does a lot more within the swing itself than change his alignment.

How so? I’m probably missing it. What I see is that he’s aligned in an open position for the fade and executes it exactly the same as a draw. You can tell he’s hitting a fade because his shoulders are slightly more open, which is all predicated off his setup.

[billchao]

26 minutes ago, Robos said:

How so? I’m probably missing it. What I see is that he’s aligned in an open position for the fade and executes it exactly the same as a draw. You can tell he’s hitting a fade because his shoulders are slightly more open, which is all predicated off his setup.

Did you look at the pictures @iacas posted above? There are significant differences in his hand and club path that are not just a result of a change in setup.

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, Robos said:

How so? I’m probably missing it. What I see is that he’s aligned in an open position for the fade and executes it exactly the same as a draw. You can tell he’s hitting a fade because his shoulders are slightly more open, which is all predicated off his setup.

Seriously?

The differences are simpler than those in the Highlights childrens magazine.

[Robos]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Seriously?

The differences are simpler than those in the Highlights childrens magazine.

If you take 2 exact same swings and shift the camera angle the swings looks different. That’s exactly what I’m seeing with Jim’s two swings.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Robos said:

If you take 2 exact same swings and shift the camera angle the swings looks different. That’s exactly what I’m seeing with Jim’s two swings.

That's not what's happening there.

And hey, if your swing is 3° in to out, opening up to 6° and making the same swing can produce a fade. So it's not like I disagree that it's a way to hit a differently shaped shot. It's how I prefer to do it.

But he's not doing just that. He's not changing only his alignment (and he's certainly not changing it by only the amounts required to go from a 3 yard draw to a 3 yard fade).

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When you post in only this topic, basically, the tendency some members may have is to write you off as a Venetos shill or something. That's why it's been strongly suggested that you find other topics in which to post.