Golfer Makes Mark in Dew, Wipes Away - Penalties?

[Asheville]

1 hour ago, Rulesman said:

If the dew mark must be obliterated if it is not behind or to the side of the ball but must be if it is.

So the substantive rule re leaving a mark is overridden by the prohibition on removing dew?

But don't the rules say that a prohibitive rule is overruled by another rule which is permissive?

We do seem to be at cross purposes here, somehow. 

[rehmwa]

Even taking a practice swing in the dew next to the ball leaved a nice line parallel to the ball's intended line of flight...........if a practice next to the ball is routine, I suppose to be 'safe', one has to change their routine when it's dewey and take that practice away from the ball?

Frankly, if one chooses to lay their club down in the wet grass and even 'accidentally' leaves an alignment line (normal routine or not)...... they deserve to hit with a wet grip

[Rulesman]

2 hours ago, Asheville said:

We do seem to be at cross purposes here, somehow. 

Probably. I'll try again 

The USGA says that leaving the impression in the dew (or frost) is a breach of 8-2a but 13-2/35 says that removing dew (or frost) behind the ball is a breach of 13-2..

Assuming it is a heavy dew (or thick frost) which could possibly impede his club head when making the stroke, what does the player do if he had laid his club in direct line with his line of play behind the ball?

[Asheville]

Ah, now I see where you're coming from.

My experience with players laying a club down for alignment has been that it is positioned along the proposed toe alignment somewhere between the toes and the ball. (Even saw it once on the first playoff hole of a US Am Qualifier.)

In the case of the player positioning the club as you suggest, I'd say he gets 2 PS whether he removes the line or not. He's made a mark that cannot be removed without improving his lie.

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, Asheville said:

Ah, now I see where you're coming from.

My experience with players laying a club down for alignment has been that it is positioned along the proposed toe alignment somewhere between the toes and the ball. (Even saw it once on the first playoff hole of a US Am Qualifier.)

In the case of the player positioning the club as you suggest, I'd say he gets 2 PS whether he removes the line or not. He's made a mark that cannot be removed without improving his lie.

I agree, I've only seen players laying down a club near their toe-line.  As I read D13-2/35, removal of dew is penalized "if such removal creates a potential advantage".  If the dew removed, following on the bolded text in @Asheville's post, is neither in the immediate vicinity of the ball, nor in the immediate area where he plans to set his feet, I'd contend that the removal of the dew does not create any potential advantage.  From D13-2/0.5, "merely changing an area protected by Rule 13-2 would not be a breach of Rule 13-2 unless it creates such a potential advantage for the player in his play."

[iacas]

The USGA told me this (in person, with a guy pretty darn high up):

• If he leaves the line, he's in violation of 8-2.
• If he can remove the line without getting near enough to his ball that his lie is improved, he should do so and would not be penalized. He should also obliterate enough of the line so that 8-2 isn't still violated.
• His feet will have already wiped away dew near his stance so he can't really improve that area.

So basically, he should wipe away the dew.

[Buckeyebowman]

This is why I never like to play before noon!