2016 Distance Data from Game Golf (and "How Far do Ams Hit the Ball?")

[JonMA1]

46 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Could be just enough duffs to get averaged into their distance statistics? Most golfers don't hit that "clean".

I think GameGolf does a pretty good job of throwing away the shots that are either duffed or those when a club was used for something less than a full swing.

And really, that's the way it should be IMO. I don't want to factor in a duff when deciding which club to pull.

47 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I noticed that many of my first cut or even rough shots were counted in GG as fairways hit. I'm guessing that the software favors hitting fairways more than off?

I've noticed this too, but really, that stat isn't all that important to me especially if I'm in the first cut. As long as I'm not behind a tree or left with a really nasty lie, I consider that tee shot a success (got that from LSW).

Kind of the same with nGIRs. If my approach shot is close enough for me to pull the putter, I could care less about the GIR stat. In fact, there are times when being on the green but far away from the hole is worse than being slightly off the green and close to the pin.

i try to adjust the GIR stat when I get home (when tagging the putter from off the green), but I'm sure I've missed a couple.

[1badbadger]

58 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I also did a Bridgestone fitting at a local golf store where they used the GC2 that was already there. Kind of curious why you used a 3W rather than a driver for the fitting? Do you not use your driver enough to justify the fitting, or did you just forget to bring your driver that day?

I did the fitting because they gave me a whole bunch of free balls.

 

 

 

 

 

I was actually one of the ball fitting techs, so I had the opportunity to experiment with different clubs and different balls when there was down-time.  I would hit fairway woods, hybrids, irons to see how the different balls in our line stacked up to each other, and competitor balls as well.

Typically we would have the launch monitor in "test mode" when doing this, which would allow us to see the results, but it wouldn't save the info to the database.  This particular time my partner either forgot or thought I wanted to save the data.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

I noticed that many of my first cut or even rough shots were counted in GG as fairways hit. I'm guessing that the software favors hitting fairways more than off?

No. You're supposed to adjust that in editing. The software isn't favoring anything. It just isn't perfectly synced to current course conditions/mowing patterns and the GPS map.

[Denny Bang Bang]

On 1/13/2017 at 3:31 PM, iacas said:

I prefer backward. Distance first. Control it later.

That's the way I've always read or heard it as well.  When my daughter took lessons, the focus was speed and fun, with the thought that control could come later.  And I watched a presentation (one of the Docs associated with TPI) regarding junior development, and how the physiological window to develop/maximize speed is only a few years.

I think I read somewhere that is the approach Arnold Palmer's father took with him as well.

[Hoganman1]

This info seems correct to me. I'm a 67 year old with a 9.8 index and my average drive is around 205. I've been playing over 50 years and while distance off the tee is very important there's a lot more to scoring than being a bomber. I played with a guy yesterday  that out drove me by thirty or more yards on every par four and par five on our 6250 yard course.. He shot 86 and I shot 84. Granted this is just one round but I later learned his index is 12.7. What's the old saying "drive for show; putt for dough".

[Lihu]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

No. You're supposed to adjust that in editing. The software isn't favoring anything. It just isn't perfectly synced to current course conditions/mowing patterns and the GPS map.

Makes sense. . .

[natureboy]

On 1/14/2017 at 11:39 AM, Lihu said:

I'm a bit surprised by this post, because from the many "How would you play this hole" threads you put up it sounded like you hit about average. Not picking on this post or anything, just pleasantly surprised.

You must be confusing me with someone, because I don't think I've put up more than one, if that. Though I've commented on a few.

As far as my drives, peak height was probably a bit low with the old swing. With that swing, I could carry my 20* hybrid 195-200 with good height with a pretty normal swing. Given what I typically see on the (municipal) range, I'm probably above average for length.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 1/5/2017 at 11:36 AM, DeadMan said:

Seems about right to me. People really don't have an appreciation for how difficult it is to hit a golf ball 250 yards. I can't tell you how many times people have seen a drive I've hit and said, "wow, that must be over 300 yards easily!" But then I get up to the ball, and it's nowhere near 300 yards.

Agree! I think a lot of guys (in particular) vastly overestimate how far they hit the ball. And yes, I think male ego has a large part in it! I know that I'm much shorter than I was in my late teens, and through my 20's. I am now 64. I could honestly hit Driver 290 back in the day, with the occasional great one past 300. And this was with persimmon woods and wound, balata balls! I can't get anywhere near that now, I just don't have the clubhead speed anymore. Nothing brings that reality home like having to hit a 3 wood or hybrid long iron for my approach shot on an honest to God 425 to 440 yard par 4!

Which brings me to some golf courses I've played. Some of these places, which usually fall into the "goat ranch" category, seem to have posted yardages that I can only view as "ego builders". I just can't believe they're accurate. Case in point. Last year I played a course and #9 was a par 5 of 485 yards from the tees we were playing. I hit a really nice drive, and when I got the yardage for my approach it was 185 yards! I looked from my ball to the green, and 185 seemed about right. Am I seriously supposed to believe that I hit a Driver 300 yards? I don't! That hole is easily 40 or more yards shorter than what it's listed as. It's a glorified par 4! Still, I was happy with my drive and birdied the hole.

If I read the charts right I'm pretty much spot on with my HI, 13, and doing a bit better than my age group, which is cool with me. My buddy, who is my age, and I occasionally talk about making the move forward to the gold tees which seems to bug his Son to no end! He is 23 years our junior and tells us, "Gold tees my ass! You guys are still plenty long enough to play from the whites!"

Maybe he's our version of Dylan Thomas. "Rage, rage against the dying of the light!" Or, it could be he just doesn't want to be stuck all by himself on the whites!

[natureboy]

On 1/14/2017 at 8:59 AM, dennyjones said:

Looking at your GG distances, your 4i, 5i and 6i seem to have relatively the same distances.  How do you equate this?  Would this data be realistic to have the clubs loft adjusted to create a better gap?  

The reason I ask, I believe I sometimes have the same overlap with my clubs.   

Poorer contact with longer clubs vs. shorter clubs leads to much more variance in distance with more 'bad' strikes pulling the median down and closer together would be my guess.

1 minute ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Which brings me to some golf courses I've played. Some of these places, which usually fall into the "goat ranch" category, seem to have posted yardages that I can only view as "ego builders". I just can't believe they're accurate.

Also, distance on the hole due to downhill landing areas and slopes and doglegs can affect measured distance along the centerline of the hole by a pretty significant amount vs. say carry distance on level ground at sea level.

[Buckeyebowman]

3 hours ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

That's the way I've always read or heard it as well.  When my daughter took lessons, the focus was speed and fun, with the thought that control could come later.  And I watched a presentation (one of the Docs associated with TPI) regarding junior development, and how the physiological window to develop/maximize speed is only a few years.

I think I read somewhere that is the approach Arnold Palmer's father took with him as well.

I've heard that story straight from Palmer's mouth! His Dad told him, "Hit the ball hard, boy! Then go find it and hit it hard again!"

26 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Poorer contact with longer clubs vs. shorter clubs leads to much more variance in distance with more 'bad' strikes pulling the median down and closer together would be my guess.

Also, distance on the hole due to downhill landing areas and slopes and doglegs can affect measured distance along the centerline of the hole by a pretty significant amount vs. say carry distance on level ground at sea level.

Oh, I understand that. I've been playing this stupid game for 50 years! Events like the one I relayed has led to an "inside" joke among us. When we're out on a course we've rarely, or never played, and we're just slugging our brains out hole after hole, it will be said that this course must have been laid out using "pro yards"! It's well known among the duffers that pro yards are exactly one foot longer than "amateur yards"!

And, it's a point as to why the study posted "median" yards. Why not average yards? I took a statistics course in college, and the main thing I learned there was that if you don't like how the numbers look from one aspect, just pick another! Kind of brings the Disraeli quote about "lies" into perspective!

[natureboy]

2 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

it will be said that this course must have been laid out using "pro yards"! It's well known among the duffers that pro yards are exactly one foot longer than "amateur yards"!

A lot of times announcers will use the hole yardage of the shot to emphasize how long it was or the difficulty of sticking it close. That said, gaining ground on the 'hole yardage' is still an accomplishment and you usually have to go over some obstacles to do it.

[Lihu]

13 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Agree! I think a lot of guys (in particular) vastly overestimate how far they hit the ball. And yes, I think male ego has a large part in it! I know that I'm much shorter than I was in my late teens, and through my 20's. I am now 64. I could honestly hit Driver 290 back in the day, with the occasional great one past 300. And this was with persimmon woods and wound, balata balls! I can't get anywhere near that now, I just don't have the clubhead speed anymore. Nothing brings that reality home like having to hit a 3 wood or hybrid long iron for my approach shot on an honest to God 425 to 440 yard par 4!

I can't say this at all since I've only played this game as an old man

However, my current average carry is something like 245 yards based upon estimating from where I land (260 with a GC2 launch monitor ). For sure, it's less than 250 since my GG median drive is only 258 yards. Anyway, I get a few out past 300 yards sometimes, because of roll. My guess is that it's a ton of roll.

Using the same swing, I used an old (circa 1980? It's ancient looking) lefty 3W to hit roughly 260 yard tee shots one day (counting only the reasonable shots), and the flight was really low with a sub-200 yard carry at most. I have to conclude that it rolled 60 yards or more. Further, I would conclude with old drivers built like this 3W would have similar flight and roll characteristics. So, many 290 yard drives probably only carried 230-240 yards then rolled the rest of the way.

My guess is if more people could hit a club in the sweet spot, those old time clubs might see more action because amateurs need as much roll as they can get. Keep in mind that the entire head on these old things is roughly the size of "forgiveness zones" on M1 or other modern drivers.

 

13 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Which brings me to some golf courses I've played. Some of these places, which usually fall into the "goat ranch" category, seem to have posted yardages that I can only view as "ego builders". I just can't believe they're accurate. Case in point. Last year I played a course and #9 was a par 5 of 485 yards from the tees we were playing. I hit a really nice drive, and when I got the yardage for my approach it was 185 yards! I looked from my ball to the green, and 185 seemed about right. Am I seriously supposed to believe that I hit a Driver 300 yards? I don't! That hole is easily 40 or more yards shorter than what it's listed as. It's a glorified par 4! Still, I was happy with my drive and birdied the hole.

This is kind of what I thought as well, but I decided to bring my rangefinder a few times on different courses. What I found was that the yardages on many suspect "goat tracks" were actually pretty accurate. If you google earth a few examples, like this 485 yard par 5, I think you might be surprised. Many goat tracks don't aerate enough so the fairways are hard as rock, thus you get up to 40 or more yards of roll.

I believe that roll accounts for many phenomenal drives from amateurs as much as just ego.

 

14 hours ago, natureboy said:

You must be confusing me with someone, because I don't think I've put up more than one, if that. Though I've commented on a few.

As far as my drives, peak height was probably a bit low with the old swing. With that swing, I could carry my 20* hybrid 195-200 with good height with a pretty normal swing. Given what I typically see on the (municipal) range, I'm probably above average for length.

Possibly, it's been at least a year or more since I saw those posts. . .

[Buckeyebowman]

OK, but the hole where I supposedly hit a 300 yard drive was playing neither firm nor fast! This is not the most pristinely maintained course around, and things were a little soft as there had been quite a bit of rain prior to our round.

Hey, I'm more than happy to think I bopped one out there 3 Hundy! But if I choose to think that I hit it 260 and am as happy as a pig in slop, what's the worry?

And I stand by my original contention, men, in general, tend to think they hit the ball farther than they actually do. If you want to see honest to God 300 yard drives, go to a Tour event. You will quickly realize that you can't hit it anywhere near these guys!

[alleztom]

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

And I stand by my original contention, men, in general, tend to think they hit the ball farther than they actually do.

Isn't this why Americans play in yards? 10% for free.

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, alleztom said:

Isn't this why Americans play in yards? 10% for free.

We play in yards due to our adoration of the English. They are English units after all and not American units! 

[bkuehn1952]

16 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

We play in yards due to our adoration of the English. They are English units after all and not American units! 

I seem to recall all the courses in Scotland, the birth place of golf, using yards and not meters.  If it is good enough for the Scotsmen, it is good enough for me.  

[Lihu]

10 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

OK, but the hole where I supposedly hit a 300 yard drive was playing neither firm nor fast! This is not the most pristinely maintained course around, and things were a little soft as there had been quite a bit of rain prior to our round.

Hey, I'm more than happy to think I bopped one out there 3 Hundy! But if I choose to think that I hit it 260 and am as happy as a pig in slop, what's the worry?

And I stand by my original contention, men, in general, tend to think they hit the ball farther than they actually do. If you want to see honest to God 300 yard drives, go to a Tour event. You will quickly realize that you can't hit it anywhere near these guys!

Yeah, I agree.

First of all tour pros carry 278 on average, which is a total monster drive compared to 245. Secondly half of them carry 290+ yards, and I'm sure most serious golfers know how far is a nearly 300 yard carry. . .Also, keep in mind that PGA pros are hitting much narrower and faster fairways where precision and distance are both paramount. They're not really going for "distance" in the sense that we generally do.

 

9 hours ago, alleztom said:

Isn't this why Americans play in yards? 10% for free.

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

We play in yards due to our adoration of the English. They are English units after all and not American units! 

What are American units, anyway? When I was young, all the banks had their temperatures in metric as well as English units. Funny that the English temperature unit was also invented by a Dutch-German-Polish dude.

I could never figure out what units were standard here, especially since all the schools taught SI units while work places did everything in English units. It's schizophrenic. . .

 

46 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

I seem to recall all the courses in Scotland, the birth place of golf, using yards and not meters.  If it is good enough for the Scotsmen, it is good enough for me.  

[Blackjack Don]

11 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

And I stand by my original contention, men, in general, tend to think they hit the ball farther than they actually do.

Usually, I find the ball behind where I start to look. But once in awhile, it's way beyond. Nice kick off the mounds. lol

10 hours ago, alleztom said:

Isn't this why Americans play in yards? 10% for free.

British humor. Arr

1 hour ago, bkuehn1952 said:

I seem to recall all the courses in Scotland, the birth place of golf, using yards and not meters.  If it is good enough for the Scotsmen, it is good enough for me.  

American irony. Arr arr