Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I would think that items 1,2,5 and 7 are probably the main things that improved your game?

Yeah, if I had to pick one I'd say #2 has done the most for my game. Some of the others have a more indirect impact. For example, my fitness level has increased my drive length a bit.

Item 5 is going to help you get further down.

It's not "honesty", but just knowing how far you actually carry the ball and how much you can expect it to roll. The good players I know can even control the amount of spin to some extent. . .that is "tons", "normal", "lower"

[808hacker]

This is the breaking 90 thread so these tips helped me the most.

1: Forget par - if you get it, GREAT! Otherwise, play every hole as a bogey hole and .... be happy when you get a bogey. Things change drastically when you know you have an extra shot.

2: Make contact with the ball - what I mean is be honest with yourself - if you are going to top that 3 wood, then use a hybrid or your most trusted club that you can hit and not completely waste a shot.

3: Practice your chipping and putting as much as you can to save bogey.

4: If you miss the green, get on the green ASAP.... with your next shot. Then 2 putt.

You will probably break 90 because if you bogey every hole except one hole, you have broken 90. If you make one par, you can make a double on another hole and still be where you want.

Golf is tough, I think if you just play once a week and not practice, then bogey golf is a reasonable goal. Any better than that, and you probably need to play more or practice at the range. I guess no one cares as long as you don't slow pace of play. :-)

[rkim291968]

Thank you! Absolutely, here is how I improved my HI from 23 to 17 in the last year:

I read Lowest Score Wins over the winter and changed the way I attack the course. By focusing on advancing each shot as close to the hole as possible I shaved a few strokes from each round this year. I am far better at managing courses with this strategy.

I improved my driving substantially. Again, based on Lowest Score Wins I went with the biggest upside. I would hit the range with a large bucket and nothing but driver with one simple goal, to teach myself an inside out swing to eliminate the slice. I went from 180 - 200 yd erratic drives with big left-to-right arc to hitting 230-260 yds consistently in play. Several strokes saved per round here as well, 2-3 OB or hazards eliminated per round plus distance gained.

I simplified my iron game. I started putting the ball just inside my front heel on every iron shot, no matter the distance or club. Focused on the first 2 keys keeping head still and getting the weight forward. This eliminated nearly all of my skulls and fat shots. I consistently advance the ball making solid contact. Still plenty of room for improvement here but getting the ball near the green consistently has saved me another few strokes.

I started warming up. I used to walk to the first tee straight from the car and hit my first shot on #1 cold. It would usually take me 2-3 holes to get warm and make solid contact, costing me a few strokes early in each round. Now I arrive 30 minutes early and hit a small bucket at the range resulting in much better starts.

I got honest with myself. I know I can hit my 8-iron 145 yds 1 out of every 5 tries, but realistically most of the time it goes 135-140 yds. I have finally accepted "the most probable" outcome as opposed to "the best possible" outcome when I approach a shot. Sure I can carry my 3W 225 yds on occasion, but trying to carry a 220yd hazard with it is just wishful thinking most of the time. I've dropped the ego (mostly) and play the odds saving a few strokes a round.

My mental and physical state has improved. This has less to do with golf and more to do with life, but the overlap between the two is undeniable. I have focused a great deal on physical fitness (lifting weights), eating and sleeping well, and keeping a clear mind. This has had a positive effect both on and off the golf course.

I play more. The more rounds I get in the better I get. I have had the ability to play a lot early this summer and the result has been consistent improvement.

The above 7 steps have easily saved me 10 strokes per round on average from this time last year. However, I have given a few strokes back as a result of making these changes:

My putting has suffered. As a result of the above changes I have not spent any time practicing putting. As a result my distance control has deteriorated, leading to a notable increase in 3-putts adding a few strokes to my score.

I am learning to use wedges. I have always been a bump-and-run sort of chipper, always using my pitching wedge around the greens. This was safe, but definitely leaves me at a disadvantage on tight pin positions, over bunkers, etc. I recently purchases a 60 degree wedge and started using it in rounds. At this point it is costing me more strokes than it saves, but I see it as an investment in the future.

I am playing the back tees. My playing partners are big hitters and play the tips. To save time and be more social I have joined them back there. While I could save a few strokes teeing forward I enjoy the game from back there. It has challenged me to really dial in the driver as it is a must from afar.

From a completely unscientific analysis I would say my game improved 10 strokes and I've given back 4 in some trade-offs. Most importantly I am having a great time on the course.

Good read.   It's a bit different journey than I took.   2 & 6 helped me improve my game also.   On your giving back few strokes, this is so true in my case.  With full time job and life outside of golf, I can only devote certain amount of time to practice golf.   Like your putting, my bunker shots regressed while I was working on ball striking.   Sigh.

[No Mulligans]

Not sure if this has been said, breaking 90 is a bit arbitrary.  Was it a par 72 with a rating of 74.5/130 or a par 70 with a rating of 67/95?  That's over an 8 stroke difference in difficulty.

I say breaking 90 = having a HI differential of less than 18.0 on whatever course you played, at least that's the way I think of it.

I seldom play full length courses but I did break 90 on a par 70 rated 69.4/122 course, I shot an 88 and got an HI differential of 17.2.  To me that's legit.  But I'd also say my 68 on a 58 par executive course with a rating of 55.2/99 that resulted in a HI differential of 14.6 was a better round... and the equivalent of breaking 90 in my mind.

If you think of it this way, that is getting an HI diff. less than 18.0, then you have a lot more opportunities of "breaking 90".

[No Mulligans]

Thank you! Absolutely, here is how I improved my HI from 23 to 17 in the last year:

I read Lowest Score Wins over the winter and changed the way I attack the course. By focusing on advancing each shot as close to the hole as possible I shaved a few strokes from each round this year. I am far better at managing courses with this strategy.

I improved my driving substantially. Again, based on Lowest Score Wins I went with the biggest upside. I would hit the range with a large bucket and nothing but driver with one simple goal, to teach myself an inside out swing to eliminate the slice. I went from 180 - 200 yd erratic drives with big left-to-right arc to hitting 230-260 yds consistently in play. Several strokes saved per round here as well, 2-3 OB or hazards eliminated per round plus distance gained.

I simplified my iron game. I started putting the ball just inside my front heel on every iron shot, no matter the distance or club. Focused on the first 2 keys keeping head still and getting the weight forward. This eliminated nearly all of my skulls and fat shots. I consistently advance the ball making solid contact. Still plenty of room for improvement here but getting the ball near the green consistently has saved me another few strokes.

I started warming up. I used to walk to the first tee straight from the car and hit my first shot on #1 cold. It would usually take me 2-3 holes to get warm and make solid contact, costing me a few strokes early in each round. Now I arrive 30 minutes early and hit a small bucket at the range resulting in much better starts.

I got honest with myself. I know I can hit my 8-iron 145 yds 1 out of every 5 tries, but realistically most of the time it goes 135-140 yds. I have finally accepted "the most probable" outcome as opposed to "the best possible" outcome when I approach a shot. Sure I can carry my 3W 225 yds on occasion, but trying to carry a 220yd hazard with it is just wishful thinking most of the time. I've dropped the ego (mostly) and play the odds saving a few strokes a round.

My mental and physical state has improved. This has less to do with golf and more to do with life, but the overlap between the two is undeniable. I have focused a great deal on physical fitness (lifting weights), eating and sleeping well, and keeping a clear mind. This has had a positive effect both on and off the golf course.

I play more. The more rounds I get in the better I get. I have had the ability to play a lot early this summer and the result has been consistent improvement.

The above 7 steps have easily saved me 10 strokes per round on average from this time last year. However, I have given a few strokes back as a result of making these changes:

My putting has suffered. As a result of the above changes I have not spent any time practicing putting. As a result my distance control has deteriorated, leading to a notable increase in 3-putts adding a few strokes to my score.

I am learning to use wedges. I have always been a bump-and-run sort of chipper, always using my pitching wedge around the greens. This was safe, but definitely leaves me at a disadvantage on tight pin positions, over bunkers, etc. I recently purchases a 60 degree wedge and started using it in rounds. At this point it is costing me more strokes than it saves, but I see it as an investment in the future.

I am playing the back tees. My playing partners are big hitters and play the tips. To save time and be more social I have joined them back there. While I could save a few strokes teeing forward I enjoy the game from back there. It has challenged me to really dial in the driver as it is a must from afar.

From a completely unscientific analysis I would say my game improved 10 strokes and I've given back 4 in some trade-offs. Most importantly I am having a great time on the course.

Good stuff.

Having a hard time wrapping my head around item 3.  I too have a problem with thins and fats. I was of the understanding that you played most iron shots from the center of your stance.  I wonder if moving the ball that far forward causes one to make compensations that move you away from solid technique.  Is it a short term fix that is a bit short sighted?  I'm not saying it is as I'm not qualified.  This has just got me wondering.

[Braivo]

Item 5 is going to help you get further down.

It's not "honesty", but just knowing how far you actually carry the ball and how much you can expect it to roll. The good players I know can even control the amount of spin to some extent. . .that is "tons", "normal", "lower"

Agreed. I played tonight and did a lot more of this and had a fantastic round.

This is the breaking 90 thread so these tips helped me the most.

1: Forget par - if you get it, GREAT! Otherwise, play every hole as a bogey hole and .... be happy when you get a bogey. Things change drastically when you know you have an extra shot.

2: Make contact with the ball - what I mean is be honest with yourself - if you are going to top that 3 wood, then use a hybrid or your most trusted club that you can hit and not completely waste a shot.

3: Practice your chipping and putting as much as you can to save bogey.

4: If you miss the green, get on the green ASAP.... with your next shot. Then 2 putt.

You will probably break 90 because if you bogey every hole except one hole, you have broken 90. If you make one par, you can make a double on another hole and still be where you want.

Golf is tough, I think if you just play once a week and not practice, then bogey golf is a reasonable goal. Any better than that, and you probably need to play more or practice at the range. I guess no one cares as long as you don't slow pace of play. :-)

Great advice. This is exactly how I have been approaching my rounds. I'll even get a few pars and be "under" bogey golf instead of thinking about where I am in relation to actual par. Like you said, I will never be able to play / practice enough to be a scratch golfer, but if I consistently break 90 in weekly game and maybe flirt with 80 now and then I'll be having a good time.

Good read.   It's a bit different journey than I took.   2 & 6 helped me improve my game also.   On your giving back few strokes, this is so true in my case.  With full time job and life outside of golf, I can only devote certain amount of time to practice golf.   Like your putting, my bunker shots regressed while I was working on ball striking.   Sigh.

I am sure my bunker play has regressed, but thankfully getting better in other areas has kept me out of the bunker for the most part so it's a lower value skill.

Good stuff.

Having a hard time wrapping my head around item 3.  I too have a problem with thins and fats. I was of the understanding that you played most iron shots from the center of your stance.  I wonder if moving the ball that far forward causes one to make compensations that move you away from solid technique.  Is it a short term fix that is a bit short sighted?  I'm not saying it is as I'm not qualified.  This has just got me wondering.

I was taught to move the ball further back in my stance the shorter the club, so a 3i would be near the front and a PW would be near the back. I did this for years with some success but a lot of inconsistency.

Then last year I was watching a Jack Nicklaus instruction video. He talked about how he hits every iron from just off his left heel and doesn't ground the club at setup. I tried it with moderate success last year but ultimately went back to my old, comfortable ways. Finally, this year I had enough of the inconsistency and started trying his technique and it has worked amazingly well.

I think it works for me because it forces me to get my weight and hands forward at impact. With the ball up front in my stance, if my weight doesn't get forward I am going to hit fat every time and come across the ball. I still occasionally get one fat, but I know exactly what caused it and it's an easy fix. I think success with this will vary from player to player depending on body and swing type, but this works for me.

Edit: I broke through with a fun 86 tonight. Could've been so much more, finished with a triple in light rain and near darkness.

[natureboy]

I have read so many tips. In any case, something that seems to help is to imagine tossing the ball to the hole, then replicate that speed. It seems to help.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2011/02/putting-101.html

You can also toss a real ball towards the hole and try and replicate that swing speed with your putter. Try it.

I just started breaking into the mid to high 80's so I'm hardly the best person to be giving advice (although my putting has always been pretty decent).  My instructor and I were working on putting not too long ago and he gave me 2 great drills to help me with my speed.

First one is real simple, next time you're on a practice green take 4 or 5 balls and line them up all on the same putting line but each one progressively longer then the next (I'd stagger them about 2-3 feet apart).  Putt each one starting with the closest and progressively work back to the one farthest from the hole, great way to get a feel for the weight of each putt at a different distance.

2nd one was geared more for those (like me) who tend to leave everything short of the hole.  Place a club or alignment stick 15-18 inches past the hole, putt like you normally would only you should focus on putting with enough weight that if you miss the ball stops somewhere between the hole and the club behind the hole.  Drill seems to work best when you're around 8-10 feet away, putting on a relatively flat green.

Good luck

Good tips, thanks.

[mcanadiens]

Not sure if this has been said, breaking 90 is a bit arbitrary.  Was it a par 72 with a rating of 74.5/130 or a par 70 with a rating of 67/95?  That's over an 8 stroke difference in difficulty.

I say breaking 90 = having a HI differential of less than 18.0 on whatever course you played, at least that's the way I think of it.

I seldom play full length courses but I did break 90 on a par 70 rated 69.4/122 course, I shot an 88 and got an HI differential of 17.2.  To me that's legit.  But I'd also say my 68 on a 58 par executive course with a rating of 55.2/99 that resulted in a HI differential of 14.6 was a better round... and the equivalent of breaking 90 in my mind.

If you think of it this way, that is getting an HI diff. less than 18.0, then you have a lot more opportunities of "breaking 90".

No kidding. I can post here and in the Breaking Bad thread, because sub-90 and sub-100 can both be good things depending on the course and whether I feeling like swinging the club worth a darn on a given day.

I have a handful of 80s scores on short, easy courses with CRs of 65 and 68. The tougher courses I play (CRs over 70), haven't yielded anything better than a 91 and I'm entirely capable of hacking up a triple digit. Saturday's crap-tastic 101 for instance.

[Hatchman]

I like this string. Read through lots of good tips. What helped me get below 90 more regularly was changing course strategy. After assessing my skills-and physical limitations at the time-would be to to take three to get on and two to get in on a par 4. Got away from had to par. Then worked on the pitch/chip and putt. Improved more quickly as I didn't go at the ball so violently. During this transition I played most pitches/chips up in stance from multi surfaces and tried to remember to press down various tensions depending on contour with forward ball of foot to help prevent me from leaning back playing blade ball. Putting I spent lots of hours on the greens during disability periods. I end all putting sessions rolling my playing ball into a practice ball 50 consecutive times. Basically pushing it like a marble all over the putting green. My objective is to see my roll and how it pushes the ball forward, my goal..or to the side...etc. Do I hit it too hard? A fun way to practice alone to a smaller target.

[Duff McGee]

God today was disappointing. I started off with a birdie and a par, then I three putted for par from about 10 feet away (I.e., I was putting for eagle). Then I missed a 1 foot tap in for par trying to get out of the way of someone I had joined as a walk on. I ended up with 3 three putts and 1 four putt. I also lost 3 balls with horrible decisions. My ball striking has been really good. I feel like I am a low 80's golfer with my ball striking but my decision making is atrocious. The guys I was golfing with thought I was some kind of prodigy because I was hitting over 300 yard drives, getting on par 5's in 2, etc. How the hell did I end up with a 90? I can count at least 8 strokes that I actually just gave away. Not mishits. Not duffing. Just plain horrible decision making.

[Lihu]

How the hell did I end up with a 90? I can count at least 8 strokes that I actually just gave away. Not mishits. Not duffing. Just plain horrible decision making.

It happens to everyone. . .it's golf after all.

[Duff McGee]

Anyone have any good book recommendations for course management? Apparently I can't figure it out on my own.

[Lihu]

Anyone have any good book recommendations for course management? Apparently I can't figure it out on my own.

Have you tried LSW ?

[SteveH]

I have a tough time breaking 90 but managed it yesterday with an 84. I can usually shoot low-mid 40's for 9 but seem to always mess up on the second 9.  Yesterday I had a best ever 38 (2 over) on the front but followed it with a 46 on the back.  Still my best 18 hole round to date.

[mcanadiens]

Anyone have any good book recommendations for course management? Apparently I can't figure it out on my own.

Well ... Basically it's risk management.

You know what sorts of shots you have a good chance of executing and which are risky. You weigh the risk of something (like threading a 3W between two trees) with punching back out to the fairway and taking your lumps. If you aren't sure if you can get over a tree with a 6I, maybe you take an 8I and make sure you do. Stuff like that.

I'm still not good with it. My emotions get the better of me and I make too many poor decisions. If I'm still in my skull, good decision making can really pay off in the end.

[Duff McGee]

I also get "blank mind" where I will get complacent and put a three foot putt 5 feet past the hole. It happens at least once a round.

[Braivo]

I have a tough time breaking 90 but managed it yesterday with an 84. I can usually shoot low-mid 40's for 9 but seem to always mess up on the second 9.  Yesterday I had a best ever 38 (2 over) on the front but followed it with a 46 on the back.  Still my best 18 hole round to date.

Nice! Those 80s feel good, had one the other day where I shot an 86 after a string of not breaking 90. I too noticed a slip on the back 9. I tracked my driving distance and the average decreased significantly on the back, fatigue must be a factor.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

I have a tough time breaking 90 but managed it yesterday with an 84. I can usually shoot low-mid 40's for 9 but seem to always mess up on the second 9.  Yesterday I had a best ever 38 (2 over) on the front but followed it with a 46 on the back.  Still my best 18 hole round to date.

Nice! Those 80s feel good, had one the other day where I shot an 86 after a string of not breaking 90. I too noticed a slip on the back 9. I tracked my driving distance and the average decreased significantly on the back, fatigue must be a factor.

Doing a range "workout" seems to help reduce this.