Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[rkim291968]

I'm teetering on the edge! Went from a 22.1 to a 22.8 after shooting a 97 (a disastrous 53 and a more reasonable 44 after putting driver away at the turn). It can always get worse, but I know I'm better than that score. I just didn't know what a fairway looked at until the 13th hole, and even then I was up against the rough, haha.

Hang in there, buddy.   It can always get better.

[natureboy]

A chart I saw on here in early posts that was helpful to me in 'benchmarking' where my relative strengths and weaknesses are, so I've extended it a little.

 

Some caveats: It's not 6 sigma precise - some of the curves are interpolated / tweaked a bit. It's based on multi-round averages from different data sets - individual mileage is likely to vary. Extra significant digits are included to help discriminate where your stat fits in the bins, not to indicate the accuracy of the curve fit. Average score of 65 is based roughly on pro-level skill. Sort of what they might average on a non-PGA setup course rather than their actual average scores of around 71. I wouldn't expect a pro to just barely break par on a 'typical' course. Depending on how far off this assumption is, lower end numbers will be more skewed.

 

That said, if you have helpful suggestions to tweak or improve it, please share or PM me (especially links to good data) if that feedback is considered off-topic.

 

 

MULTI-ROUND STAT AVERAGE ~ CORRELATED WITH AVERAGE SCORE

AVERAGE SCORE

65

70

75

80

85

90

95

100

105

~ HCP (Course Rating 72)

-10

-5

0

5

10

15

20

25

30

~ HCP (Course Rating 68)

-6

-1

4

9

14

19

24

29

34

~ USGA Recommended Length of Tees (Yards)

7,226

6,854

6,494

6,151

5,827

5,522

5,235

4,967

4,714

# GIR

13.40

10.95

8.85

6.80

5.30

3.90

2.80

1.90

1.20

% GIR

74.4

60.8

49.2

37.8

29.4

21.7

15.6

10.6

6.7

 # GoFIR

14.40

12.53

10.63

8.75

6.94

5.25

3.72

2.39

1.33

% GoFIR

80.0

69.6

59.1

48.6

38.6

29.2

20.6

13.3

7.4

# GIRP (GIR +1 / Bogey GIR)

18.00

17.70

16.64

15.37

13.94

12.41

10.87

9.35

7.94

% GIRP (GIR +1 / Bogey GIR)

100.0

98.4

92.5

85.4

77.4

69.0

60.4

52.0

44.1

% Par 3 - GIR (Iron Accuracy)

91.2

74.3

59.1

45.6

33.8

23.8

15.4

8.8

4.0

~ % Fairways

84.8

73.0

62.0

51.3

40.9

30.6

20.5

10.4

3.0

1 Std Deviation - Degrees Offline From Tee

2.7

3.6

4.4

5.1

5.8

6.5

7.1

7.7

8.3

~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 175 Yd Drive

13.0

24.0

31.4

36.0

38.6

39.8

40.4

41.3

43.2

~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 200 Yd Drive

14.8

27.4

35.9

41.2

44.1

45.4

46.2

47.2

49.4

~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 225 Yd Drive

16.7

30.9

40.4

46.3

49.6

51.1

52.0

53.1

55.6

~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 250 Yd Drive

18.5

34.3

44.9

51.5

55.1

56.8

57.7

59.0

61.7

~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 275 Yd Drive

20.4

37.7

49.4

56.6

60.6

62.5

63.5

64.9

67.9

~ Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 300 Yd Drive

22.2

41.1

53.9

61.8

66.1

68.1

69.3

70.8

74.1

Average Drive Distance / Accuracy (Degrees Offline) Ratio

106.5

74.8

56.9

45.5

37.6

31.9

27.5

24.1

21.4

75% 'Good Drive' Distance

297.2

275.6

256.9

240.6

226.2

213.5

202.0

191.8

182.5

Avg Drive Distance (@ ~ 60% Fwys)

288.0

267.2

249.2

233.5

219.7

207.3

196.3

186.4

177.5

~ # Penalty Strokes

0.26

0.31

0.50

0.82

1.20

1.65

2.17

2.83

3.63

~ # "Doubly Awfu" (Lost / OB / Haz)

0.18

0.21

0.35

0.56

0.86

1.23

1.71

2.19

2.80

# "Awful" Shots (Including "Doubly Awful")

0.68

0.94

1.44

2.50

3.90

5.60

7.46

9.70

12.14

# Awful - Long Game

0.53

0.64

1.05

1.72

2.64

3.78

5.11

6.72

8.62

# Awful - Short Game

0.15

0.27

0.42

0.75

1.25

1.78

2.35

2.99

3.55

# Pitch / Chip / Sand Shots

5.0

7.3

9.4

11.4

13.4

15.6

18.0

20.9

24.2

% Greenside U&D

85.1

71.8

59.6

48.1

36.7

25.2

13.1

0.1

0

# Putts

29.2

31.6

33.1

33.8

34.3

34.9

36.0

38.0

41.4

~ # PPGIR

1.783

1.999

2.144

2.239

2.290

2.343

2.420

2.556

2.779

~ # PPmGIR

1.157

1.378

1.542

1.663

1.747

1.827

1.922

2.060

2.265

# 3-Putts / Rnd

0.53

0.89

1.17

1.42

1.68

2.00

2.41

2.96

3.70

% 3-Putts

3.0

4.9

6.5

7.9

9.3

11.1

13.4

16.5

20.6

~ Expected Putts ≥ 2 (Lag Zone) Distance (Ft)

33.45

29.59

26.17

23.14

20.47

18.10

16.01

14.16

12.52

~ 50% Probability of 3-Putt Distance (Ft)

97.36

88.19

79.89

72.36

65.55

59.37

53.78

48.71

44.13

~ 25% Putt Make Distance (Ft)

14.48

13.03

11.72

10.54

9.49

8.53

7.68

6.91

6.21

~ 50% Putt Make Distance (Ft)

7.80

7.12

6.50

5.94

5.42

4.95

4.52

4.13

3.77

~ 75% Putt Make Distance (Ft)

4.99

4.65

4.34

4.05

3.77

3.52

3.28

3.06

2.85

# Birdies -

5.6

3.7

2.3

1.4

0.7

0.3

0.2

0.1

0.1

% Birdies -

30.9

20.7

13.0

7.5

3.9

1.9

1.0

0.7

0.0

# Pars

11.5

11.5

10.2

8.2

6.2

4.5

3.1

2.2

1.5

% Pars

63.9

63.7

56.4

45.8

34.6

24.8

17.3

12.1

8.2

# Bogies

0.8

2.4

4.4

6.2

7.4

7.6

7.0

5.8

4.3

% Bogies

4.6

13.4

24.5

34.7

41.1

42.5

38.9

32.0

23.7

# Doubles

0.1

0.2

0.8

1.7

2.8

3.8

4.6

5.2

5.5

% Doubles

0.5

1.4

4.4

9.4

15.3

21.0

25.8

29.1

30.3

# Triple +

0.0

0.1

0.2

0.3

0.7

1.5

2.6

4.1

6.0

% Triple +

0.0

0.6

0.9

1.9

4.1

8.1

14.2

22.6

33.4

Update / clarification on the chart for any interested. The degrees offline from the tee values represent 1 standard deviation from the target line. So the lateral dispersion value is now double the original value I had to show the two-sided dispersion distribution or boundaries of the shot pattern. This captures the bulk of the shots - 68% (about 2/3) - not 100%. Doubling the lateral dispersion value would capture a further 27% (about 1/3), and tripling the value (3 sigma) would include the remaining 4.2% (about every other round) of really wide drives.

The larger shot pattern / circle this implies seems really big, but I expect syncs up okay when you consider the fairly large number of 'awful' shots high handicappers hit per round and the number of lost ball penalties they incur on drives.

[Scotsclaff]

Wow,loads of stats there but after a quick glance it looks pretty accurate,for my hcap anyway.

[SteveH]

After practicing and playing quite a bit most of the winter, I finally decided to take the plunge and get a few lessons.  Seems like all the practice has done has committed my errors to muscle memory.  Now I'm struggling to get my divots straightened out with my irons.  My driver has gotten a lot straighter but most of my iron shots are currently a little to the right, except my woods and hybrid, they always seem to go left. I put a solid 4 hrs in today at the practice facility.

[Crim]

I didn't know where else to post this, it's slightly relevant to this thread. So my dad who hasn't golfed in 40+ years decided to take the game up again. He's already routinely breaking 90 at various courses. Its insane. I mean, he said he got extremely good in his late teens and was parring his home course, but, come on. I still have yet to break 90 after 2 years of quite a bit of golf....granted, I don't play 18 holes very often.

I just can't believe how fast he got it back.

Edit: He's on vacay in Texas and just shot an 85 at a course he's never played before...

[rkim291968]

I didn't know where else to post this, it's slightly relevant to this thread. So my dad who hasn't golfed in 40+ years decided to take the game up again. He's already routinely breaking 90 at various courses. Its insane. I mean, he said he got extremely good in his late teens and was parring his home course, but, come on. I still have yet to break 90 after 2 years of quite a bit of golf....granted, I don't play 18 holes very often.

I just can't believe how fast he got it back.

Edit: He's on vacay in Texas and just shot an 85 at a course he's never played before...

I believe it if the fundamentals learned at early age is still there.  Going back to where he once was ... not possible.  But it seems he's already good enough to kick your behind.   You'd better get going, Crim.   I see old father and you son twosome sometimes and it isn't pretty to watch ah old man beat the crap out of his son..   Nah ... enjoy playing with your dad.  Seems like you will  have some serious fun together.

[Crim]

I believe it if the fundamentals learned at early age is still there.  Going back to where he once was ... not possible.  But it seems he's already good enough to kick your behind.   You'd better get going, Crim.   I see old father and you son twosome sometimes and it isn't pretty to watch ah old man beat the crap out of his son..   Nah ... enjoy playing with your dad.  Seems like you will  have some serious fun together.

We've played once this year already, at a Par 3 course I routinely play, he beat me by a couple strokes....

The funniest thing though was that my mom played (she's never played before) and she beat him on one hole. I made par, she made bogey, dad made double.

I love par 3 courses, every once and awhile I beginner has a chance.

[rkim291968]

The funniest thing though was that my mom played (she's never played before) and she beat him on one hole. I made par, she made bogey, dad made double.

My wife who have been hovering in HI range of 26 - 28 had some kind of breakthrough in the last 30 days and started to beat me straight up.   She has suddenly became a bogey golfer, which is pretty rare for woman.   I have been improving but she is beating me straight up more and more.   It is very embarrassing since I practice, take lessons, and buy new equipment like crazy.    She never does any of those.   After the Sunday's poor round I had, one of the twosome we played together chided me with "how many strokes is your wife giving you?"   I carded 109 (one of the worst rounds in years), and she 89 (her personal best).   I just wanted to crawl into a hole although I kept my smile on my face .

Lots of generalization here:  I think women learn quicker b/c they accept "teaching" from others better.   Having less ego than men help in that situation.  They are more likely to keep with same routine vs men who keep on tinkering for better swing.   My wife's swing form isn't ideal but is consistent.   She hit all her drives in fairway on the Sunday's round, two more than her usual.   It's a good thing the wives are not so serious in golf in most households.  Otherwise, there could be more divorces due to wounded egos.

[Crim]

My wife who have been hovering in HI range of 26 - 28 had some kind of breakthrough in the last 30 days and started to beat me straight up.   She has suddenly became a bogey golfer, which is pretty rare for woman.   I have been improving but she is beating me straight up more and more.   It is very embarrassing since I practice, take lessons, and buy new equipment like crazy.    She never does any of those.   After the Sunday's poor round I had, one of the twosome we played together chided me with "how many strokes is your wife giving you?"   I carded 109 (one of the worst rounds in years), and she 89 (her personal best).   I just wanted to crawl into a hole although I kept my smile on my face.

Wow! She is gooooood!

Do you two play from same tees? Vastly different?

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

My wife who have been hovering in HI range of 26 - 28 had some kind of breakthrough in the last 30 days and started to beat me straight up.   She has suddenly became a bogey golfer, which is pretty rare for woman.   I have been improving but she is beating me straight up more and more.   It is very embarrassing since I practice, take lessons, and buy new equipment like crazy.    She never does any of those.   After the Sunday's poor round I had, one of the twosome we played together chided me with "how many strokes is your wife giving you?"   I carded 109 (one of the worst rounds in years), and she 89 (her personal best).   I just wanted to crawl into a hole although I kept my smile on my face.

Wow! She is gooooood!

Do you two play from same tees? Vastly different?

Vastly different.   ---->    Looking forward to dragging her into club's scramble & alternate shot tournaments.   We did well last year, coming in at 3rd & 4th in two of the 3 tournaments we entered together.   But we got more handicap strokes then.   B/c both of our HIs went down quite a bit this year, we need to bring our A game for sure.

[808hacker]

Over here. No changes. It seems like no matter what I do, it's always around 44-46 for any given 9 holes. Putting is still bad with rarely any 1 putts. Just missed a 3 footer - dead straight but hit it too hard and it popped out. Golflogix is getting tired of my playing and has seemed to permanently fixed my handicap at 17.5.

[DrvFrShow]

I had an epiphany on the course. It may seem obvious to everyone, but apparently it wasn't so obvious to me because it took me over two years for it to sink in.

My job is to advance the ball up and keep it in play. I tend not to play smart. I tend to play dumb and go for the big distance because it's fun... if it works. I'm not good enough to do that yet. I still need to groove Key 2 - getting the weight forward with my hips during transition and downswing. However, I've learned that I can still have a decent round if I just keep the ball in play.

Playing dumb golf gets me focused on things that do not reinforce Key 2. I get mad and start rushing my tempo and everything goes to hell. I can play smart golf by playing clubs I can control and reinforce Key 2 on every swing. This will keep me from getting mad and will make for a more pleasant day on the course, and ultimately lead to a lower score due to fewer penalty strokes, fewer wasted shots, going up and down for pars instead of up and down for bogeys. Granted, I won't create new scoring opportunities by playing shorter clubs, but it will keep the damage minimized. Granted it isn't "fun" to play this way. Once Key 2 is solid and the ball is more under control, I can start playing my longer clubs with greater frequency and create scoring opportunities.

I came to this conclusion when I realized that I have a good chance at getting a GIR on some of the shorter par 4s with two 8 iron shots. Others, with a 7 iron and an 8 iron.

I usually start with a messed up first hole. It's a par 5, 410 yds. for us ladies. I take out my driver and either pull the ball left into the driving range (this is why I play yellow on hole 1), or I slice it into the tall stand of cedars on the right. If I am very lucky I will hit it about 200 yds straight into the rough on the left - the hole has a dogleg right around those cedars. I'm not warmed up well, and that means I'm not going to get the distance with this club anyway. So... why hit it? It's not an accurate club, and I'm not going to get a good distance anyway. Given the shape of the hole I can't either. It's a dumb play. From the cedars it's a chip out onto the fairway (wasted shot). From the driving range it's a difficult shot over a growing pine tree with an 8 iron. Once the pine tree grows more, it'll be a chip out onto the fairway for another wasted stroke.

What is the smart play for me? Why don't I play my 6 iron? I can hit it 160 to 170 yds and it goes pretty straight. It'll end up on the fairway. Then I can hit it again and I'll have 80 yds left to the center of the green. That's a partial 56 wedge and a possible GIR.

I don't need to hit anything longer than a 5 iron until the 4th hole. At that point I'm warmed up and can hit my 13.5 degree 3W and pop it about 200 - 222 yds. leaving me a GW or PW to the green.

So while LSW touts distance, but there is dumb distance and smart distance. I believe that the shot zones in LSW are great for people who can control their shots. If you cannot control your shots, you need to take an alternative route.

[rkim291968]

So while LSW touts distance, but there is dumb distance and smart distance. I believe that the shot zones in LSW are great for people who can control their shots. If you cannot control your shots, you need to take an alternative route.

+1.

I tend to OB when I  fasten my swing tempo to hit longer.   Sometimes, this happens involuntarily, e.g, when a golfer in front of me just hit a 270 yard drive.

[RFKFREAK]

So while LSW touts distance, but there is dumb distance and smart distance. I believe that the shot zones in LSW are great for people who can control their shots. If you cannot control your shots, you need to take an alternative route.

+1.

I tend to OB when I  fasten my swing tempo to hit longer.   Sometimes, this happens involuntarily, e.g, when a golfer in front of me just hit a 270 yard drive.

Or you do your shot zones, see where your tendencies are and then map out the course using the different gradients and see what you should use.

[808hacker]

I posted this in the 100 and over thread, but this really applies to people like me that do not practice much.

Try it, it really works. And yes, it took me a while to realize that sometimes I need to keep my driver in the bag for the entire round depending on the course.

>Make practice swings and do not swing any faster than you can balance. I mean really pay attention to how fast you can swing in complete balance. Do this while sweeping the ground with your club. When it's time to hit, do not swing any faster. It will feel slower but you will probably make better contact and you will have more time to square the club face. Good luck!

[DrvFrShow]

I make a battle plan that usually only survives first contact with the enemy.

I leave the driver at home and only play with 13 clubs.

[Mac62]

I make a battle plan that usually only survives first contact with the enemy.

I leave the driver at home and only play with 13 clubs.

Or as Mike Tyson once said, "Everybody has a plan 'til they get punched in the mouth".

I still hit driver because it's not a disadvantage to me - I can be just as craptacular with other clubs.  My biggest problem comes when I start thinking too much about the last bad shot I hit and filling my head with swing thoughts for the next shot.  "Paralysis by analysis" sets in and I end up so tight and twisted up that nothing good can possibly result from it.  I'm trying hard to learn to put it behind me and step up to the next shot with focus and confidence instead.

I ordered LSW and it's on its way to me.  I can't wait to read it and try to implement some of Erik's wisdom to see if it will help bring my scores down.

[mailman]

I well and truly smashed the 90 barrier yesterday with an 81 on my local course (par71, 6300 yards) AND that included a 7 on the last hole!!!!!

My course has probably one of the hardest starting holes in the country, along with Englands hardest par 3 for its 4th hole BUT I found myself in uncharted territory after walking off the 4th hole at gross even par! This included hitting all four GIR's and 2 of three FIR's along the way. This is something Ive never done in my entire life (four pars to start off with!)!!!

Finished the front 9 at 3 over par gross (39) which included 6 pars and three bogeys. On the 9th I I bunkered my approach shot after hitting the FIR leaving me with a tricky 20 yard shot to the green, which I promptly put the ball right next to for a tap in par!

Back nine was a bit more of a struggle but still ended up with a 42 which included 4 pars, 4 bogeys and a triple on the last hole!

I dont know if Ill ever get the chance to scare the 70's again in my life as yesterday was just one of those days where everything clicked! I was driving like a god, iron shots where as solid as they have ever been and I didnt have any three putts all day long! Even with the 7 on the last hole I was still happy because that 7 could have been an eight if it wasn't for sinking a 10 foot putt to at least end the hole on a high! :)

Then again, Ive put in some real effort this last 6 months to try and deliberately improve my golf. Ive been running for general fitness, attending golf fit classes at my golf course (gym sessions specifically tailored towards golf), doing kettle bells for general strength and toning and probably most importantly of all I joined a Golf Academy close by home which gives me access to coaching, a ton of technology and also on course assessments (at no extra cost). Added up altogether this has helped not only with golf but also with life in general.

Just to keep things in context, with my current 22 handicap that would have been 47 stableford points or a net 59 :) Sadly as this was an on course assessment with my coach, who isn't a member of my club, I couldn't submit the card for handicapping purposes.

All in all life is good at the moment!

Regards

Mailman