Does anyone get the idea that technology has gone way too far?

[bmartin461]

Just playing the role of supporter of technology for now, some of the huge value the internet of things can bring is when you can logically tie things together to provide either more efficiency or more convenience or more safety.

Using technology called IFTTT (IF This Than That) you can do all sorts of things.  For example, the second my daughter connects her iPad to our home WiFi I get a ping, it logs it into a Google Spreadsheet.  I can also have it setup to text me my Nest thermostat goes above or below a certain temperature.

It's endless really, if garage door is up and you detect no one is home, close it, turn off the sprinklers if the chance of rain > 70%, when I reach home, turn off cellular and connect to the home wifi and prioritize my device.

Ahhh, I love technology. 

 

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, bmartin461 said:

Smart meters that monitor electricity usage in homes in parts of Germany leak data that could reveal what programs are being watched on the digital TV, researchers there say.

The researchers tested smart meters made by German company Discovergy and found that someone with network sniffing skills and equipment could use a "man in the middle" attack to eavesdrop on data related to power use in the home.

Sigh, that's kind of what I was wondering. To me, this is a serious invasion of privacy. However, I'm not sure how the law will rule on this one? It's kind of like if your shades are open in your house, you should expect people casually walking by to glance inside and see what you are doing.

[jkelley9]

Lol this reminds me of this past Thanksgiving when my family was staying over at our house and they were complaining that the wifi wasn't working at times. I thought it was odd, because I have a lock down on my internet wiring in my house and my stuff RUNS like a CHAMP. Fiber to boot.

I pulled up my router connections and went all "ABORT MISSION" as soon as I saw 25 connections to the router. I flipped out! Thinking somehow a neighbor was piggybacking off my wifi with a server farm or something!

Then I started counting the "wifi" devices in my house... and these were just OUR devices, not my family's:

(2) access point range extenders, (4) IP cameras, (1) DVR for cameras, (2) printers, (2) desktop PCs, (1) web server, (1) NAS server, (3) laptops, (2) ipads, (1) samsung tablet, (2) roku's, (1) smart TV, (1) matricom g-box, (2) Ethernet switches, (1) xbox one, (1) Vivint security system terminal, (1) VOIP modem

... that's 28 devices.... in my house... just my wife and I....

I learned that apparently residential routers aren't meant for more than 25 connections. Even if they aren't being actively used. Oops.

 

Back to what you're saying, yes, we go a little overboard on some stuff. But just because we turned something that was once simple and awesome into something that's a little more complicated but MORE awesome isn't a bad thing in my opinion. 

We really need to push the envelope on some stuff. I feel like we're on a technological cusp that we'll soon break into some truly amazing things. 

However, sometimes CAT5e/6 isn't used for data transmission, it can also be used as a low current power source, can't it? It's cheaper than copper so running cat5 for things I think is very common. You sound like you know what you're talking about though - I may be wrong. My IP cams are PoE though so I do know cat5e can support some degree of power. 

 

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, jkelley9 said:

Lol this reminds me of this past Thanksgiving when my family was staying over at our house and they were complaining that the wifi wasn't working at times. I thought it was odd, because I have a lock down on my internet wiring in my house and my stuff RUNS like a CHAMP. Fiber to boot.

I pulled up my router connections and went all "ABORT MISSION" as soon as I saw 25 connections to the router. I flipped out! Thinking somehow a neighbor was piggybacking off my wifi with a server farm or something!

Then I started counting the "wifi" devices in my house... and these were just OUR devices, not my family's:

(2) access point range extenders, (4) IP cameras, (1) DVR for cameras, (2) printers, (2) desktop PCs, (1) web server, (1) NAS server, (3) laptops, (2) ipads, (1) samsung tablet, (2) roku's, (1) smart TV, (1) matricom g-box, (2) Ethernet switches, (1) xbox one, (1) Vivint security system terminal, (1) VOIP modem

... that's 28 devices.... in my house... just my wife and I....\

Just wait until you have kids!

 

Quote

Back to what you're saying, yes, we go a little overboard on some stuff. But just because we turned something that was once simple and awesome into something that's a little more complicated but MORE awesome isn't a bad thing in my opinion. 

We really need to push the envelope on some stuff. I feel like we're on a technological cusp that we'll soon break into some truly amazing things. 

The cusp, yes.

IoT is going to fill up the 3.5GHz band within a year.

IDK, how amazing is an espresso machine that runs Linux (or worse, Windows 10) on it? Oh, yeah, we've got one of those too! One of my buddies at work only has to reboot it twice a day.

 

Quote

However, sometimes CAT5e/6 isn't used for data transmission, it can also be used as a low current power source, can't it? It's cheaper than copper so running cat5 for things I think is very common. You sound like you know what you're talking about though - I may be wrong. My IP cams are PoE though so I do know cat5e can support some degree of power.

Sure, up to 25 watts. Cat6 is 44V to 57V and typically 48V, but I think in this case they are running signals for controlling the lights while the power is just to power up the tiny TCP/IP host. There are dimming controls and other "features" on it as well. We have one 6 zone switch in the same package format that also doesn't work most of the time, and it has a definitive operational "lag" when manually depressed.

[krupa]

Yes, yes I do.

I wrote a long rant, felt better, and deleted it.  I will keep the conclusion:

There comes a point where we need to say, "ya know, I'll just take care of that my-f***ing-self."

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, krupa said:

Yes, yes I do.

I wrote a long rant, felt better, and deleted it.  I will keep the conclusion:

There comes a point where we need to say, "ya know, I'll just take care of that my-f***ing-self."

Now, I'm curious, what was your rant?

[Buckeyebowman]

On 2/10/2017 at 4:25 PM, Lihu said:

Sigh, that's kind of what I was wondering. To me, this is a serious invasion of privacy. However, I'm not sure how the law will rule on this one? It's kind of like if your shades are open in your house, you should expect people casually walking by to glance inside and see what you are doing.

I figure the worst this could do is hoist Al Gore or DeCaprio on their own petard as regards their "carbon footprint"! Of course, the media would never report it!

4 hours ago, krupa said:

Yes, yes I do.

I wrote a long rant, felt better, and deleted it.  I will keep the conclusion:

There comes a point where we need to say, "ya know, I'll just take care of that my-f***ing-self."

This is why I still hunt, gather, and fish!

[krupa]

8 hours ago, Lihu said:

Now, I'm curious, what was your rant?

It was basically about how we are adding significant complexity to provide trivial conveniences and justifying them by overstating the benefits and downplaying or completely ignoring the potential pitfalls.  

I can't recreate the whole thing verbatim but I was hammering on my keyboard enough that my fiancee asked me what the hell I was doing. 

[jsgolfer]

On 2/10/2017 at 4:25 PM, Lihu said:

Sigh, that's kind of what I was wondering. To me, this is a serious invasion of privacy. However, I'm not sure how the law will rule on this one? It's kind of like if your shades are open in your house, you should expect people casually walking by to glance inside and see what you are doing.

Yeah, no smart meter for me.  I don't want some idiot at the electric company deciding when I should turn up or down my AC or heat.  

[krupa]

Watching this while eating my lunch and thought it was apropos

 

 

[RandallT]

An insidious and invisible part of technology that I'm always skeptical of is the algorithms based on massive amounts of data that are used to control our choices and knowledge on something.

• Google search engine
• Amazon products
• even Netflix movie choices.

For movies, I'd like to just see every damn movie they have on Netflix in a easy to view database search. By year, by alphabetic, by rank, whatever- with tons of sorts/filters--- but NONE of their filtering based on recommendations.

I'm picking on Netflix specifically here, but the same concept holds elsewhere: we tend to only see the things in our choices that some formula wants to push me toward. I just hate being so accepting of other people's formulae, and I often want a look under the hood of the data to see what's really there. Applies to music, news, product searches, whatever. 

This article touches on the idea a bit, from a different angle:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/algorithms-secretly-run-world-061905775.html

Quote

Data scientist Cathy O'Neil cautions about "blindly trusting" formulas to determine a fair outcome.

"Algorithms are not inherently fair, because the person who builds the model defines success," she said.

- Amplifying disadvantages -

O'Neil argues that while some algorithms may be helpful, others can be nefarious. In her 2016 book, "Weapons of Math Destruction," she cites some troubling examples in the United States:

- Public schools in Washington DC in 2010 fired more than 200 teachers -- including several well-respected instructors -- based on scores in an algorithmic formula which evaluated performance.

- A man diagnosed with bipolar disorder was rejected for employment at seven major retailers after a third-party "personality" test deemed him a high risk based on its algorithmic classification.

- Many jurisdictions are using "predictive policing" to shift resources to likely "hot spots." O'Neill says that depending on how data is fed into the system, this could lead to discovery of more minor crimes and a "feedback loop" which stigmatizes poor communities.

- Some courts rely on computer-ranked formulas to determine jail sentences and parole, which may discriminate against minorities by taking into account "risk" factors such as their neighborhoods and friend or family links to crime.

- In the world of finance, brokers "scrape" data from online and other sources in new ways to make decisions on credit or insurance. This too often amplifies prejudice against the disadvantaged, O'Neil argues.

 

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, RandallT said:

This article touches on the idea a bit, from a different angle:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/algorithms-secretly-run-world-061905775.html

I was only talking about a light switches and possibly expecting complaints about the context dependent and frequently frustratingly incorrect "spellcheckers" on an iPhone, but this. . .this is very scary! Now, I'm thinking of disconnecting myself from all these databases and lunatics who program them.

"Weapons of Math Destruction" sounds like a good read, only now, I'll pay cash for the paperback version, thank you.

[krupa]

Here's a good example of why I'm wary of connecting everything to the Internet.  Address space randomization was beaten by Javascript running in a web browser.

https://boingboing.net/2017/02/15/researchers-show-they-can-beat.html

My point is not that ASLR in a toaster would be affected but that we still can't get this shit right.  We'll come up with a good idea, ASLR.  Then we'll come up with a neat idea, Javascript, that isn't really necessary but nice and everyone likes it because "UX!"  Then some really smart people will figure out how that neat idea can be used to completely defeat the good idea and now you're replacing all the electronics in your house because the smartass teenager across the street keeps randomly f***ing with your lights and ordering PPV porn on your TV!

Edited February 15, 2017 by krupa

[NJpatbee]

Technology has greatly improved our lives but with that also comes the abuse of this technology for personal, government, and corporate gain. I do have a problem with applying technology just because it is possible and the biggest example today is the self driving car.  It has been proven that some of these cars can make their way long distances without an incident, but I commute in the NYC Metro Area everyday and would never trust technology to react to the totally unexpected as well as a human driver. 

The area of communications is where I have seen the greatest benefit.  My wife has been fighting a serious illness for months, but between the iPhone, Kindle, laptop, and land line she is never alone and always in contact with our children, grandchildren, and her friends.    Used properly, technology can be a great blessing.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 2/15/2017 at 0:49 PM, Lihu said:

I was only talking about a light switches and possibly expecting complaints about the context dependent and frequently frustratingly incorrect "spellcheckers" on an iPhone, but this. . .this is very scary! Now, I'm thinking of disconnecting myself from all these databases and lunatics who program them.

"Weapons of Math Destruction" sounds like a good read, only now, I'll pay cash for the paperback version, thank you.

Yes. This carries with it shades of "Minority Report"!

[chilepepper]

On 2/10/2017 at 0:59 PM, JxQx said:

They will probably just add more/smarter sensors that can tell how many people enter and exit rooms so you wont have to worry about lights turning off while still in there. Some companies already use them in case of fires to tell if everyone has evacuated buildings and if fire fighters need to be sent in to rescue people.

I don't think technology has went to far yet, once people start uploading their consciousness into computers may be the point of going to far or unconstrained AI.

   With the release of "Alexa" and other so called smart home conveniences we are already there. There is at least on investigation/court case where the device, and I'm assuming it's recorded events, has been subpoenaed.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, chilepepper said:

   With the release of "Alexa" and other so called smart home conveniences we are already there. There is at least on investigation/court case where the device, and I'm assuming it's recorded events, has been subpoenaed.

Alexa was subpoenaed???

 

[jkelley9]

5 hours ago, Lihu said:

Alexa was subpoenaed???

 

I thought she seemed a little crankier than usual.

 

Kidding. I don't even have one lol.