Is pace of play (or slow play) a real problem?

[Missouri Swede]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

The fact that you let doubles play through is exactly why you can play faster as a twosome/threesome than a fivesome.

Take it to some weird kind of extreme. Which would play faster: a twenty-some or twenty players playing in twosomes? With a twenty-some each hole might take 30 minutes. Or more. Eighteen times.

 

23 minutes ago, Zekez said:

But if each of the 10 twosomes took 3 minutes to play a hole that's a total of 30 minutes also. I would still be waiting the same time to tee off at each hole.  And if the twosomes played each hole in 4 minutes that's 10 MORE minutes per hole.

No, that would be 30 minutes delay total to start and finish.  If they're that fast (wow-- I don't even play that fast), then last group of two is finishing the first hole at 30 minutes, while the first group is finishing the 10th hole. So now you can tee off, and the groups ahead of you will continue their pace, and you'll never see them again. First group finishes 3 x 18 = 54 minutes after starting the round, last group half an hour later.

But put the group of 20 in one group, playing 30 minutes on the first hole.  Then 30 minutes on the second hole.  Then 30 minutes on the third hole.  And you're waiting ... on ... them ... on ... every ... hole. Nine hours later in total, they're done.  And you gave up after the fourth hole.  Or called the clubhouse if they wouldn't let you play through.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Missouri Swede
tried to clarify "total"

[Zekez]

8 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

 

No, that would be 30 minutes total to start and finish.  If they're that fast (wow-- I don't even play that fast), then last group of two is finishing the first hole at 30 minutes, while the first group is finishing the 10th hole. So now you can tee off, and the groups ahead of you will continue their pace, and you'll never see them again. First group finishes 3 x 18 = 54 minutes after starting the round, last group half an hour later.

But put the group of 20 in one group, playing 30 minutes on the first hole.  Then 30 minutes on the second hole.  Then 30 minutes on the third hole.  And you're waiting ... on ... them ... on ... every ... hole. Nine hours later in total, they're done.  And you gave up after the fourth hole.  Or called the clubhouse if they wouldn't let you play through.

 

Gotcha!  Thanks for that explanation.  Makes sense now.  

[Sandy Divot]

I play Monday - Friday. Very rarely play on the weekend, so pace of play really does not come into play for me.

[sjduffers]

Even with experienced golfers playing competent ready golf, a 5-some tends to be slower than a 3-some followed by a 2-some, if for no other reason because it takes longer (sometimes quite a bit longer) for them to all putt out.

And that time differential (5 putting out vs 2 or 3 putting out) is repeated on every hole and that is time that gets added up for the total time elapsed of the round, as the time seen by another group playing behind the 5 guys. By the end, it can be 5-10 minutes or maybe 30 minutes, depending on how diligent people are while putting out, e.g. continuous putting vs mark and yield to each other's turns.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, sjduffers said:

Even with experienced golfers playing competent ready golf, a 5-some tends to be slower than a 3-some followed by a 2-some, if for no other reason because it takes longer (sometimes quite a bit longer) for them to all putt out.

And that time differential (5 putting out vs 2 or 3 putting out) is repeated on every hole and that is time that gets added up for the total time elapsed of the round, as the time seen by another group playing behind the 5 guys. By the end, it can be 5-10 minutes or maybe 30 minutes, depending on how diligent people are while putting out, e.g. continuous putting vs mark and yield to each other's turns.

Right. It's not even that close, assuming you're talking about the same golfers.

[Fourputt]

On 8/14/2018 at 8:22 AM, Zekez said:

Say my group has 5 golfers.  Which grouping is better for pace of play, or are they both roughly the same?

1.Play as a  5-some 

2. Play as twosome and a threesome

Assuming all else is equal, then breaking them up will be faster for each group, but from the first player teeing off to the final player to hole a putt the time will be about the same as for a fivesome.  The difference is that the 2 groups play at a faster pace, so following players aren't held up.  Most courses I play at won't even let a group of 5 out on the course.  

[JonMA1]

On a positive note, I was behind a foursome today and they were flying. I held back a couple times... looking for golf balls or practiced chips, but overall, the 4 of them were riding at about the same pace as I was as a single walking. it was nice to see that kind of ready golf for a change. I honestly wanted to go up and compliment them.

I'm starting to believe my course is becoming a mecca for slow players. As I was getting packed up to leave yesterday, a twosome had just arrived and asked me how the course was. I told them the course was fine but that there were a lot of slow players out. His reply was "Oh good, we like to take our time".

I have less of a problem with it if the course is ok with it, and they are. I know it's going to be like that and I can choose not to play when it's crowded. But boy, today sure was a nice change.

[LeftyWhiff]

I play in one group that's a threesome and we will finish on weekdays without anyone ahead of us in 3 to 3 1/2 hours. We're quick and efficient, but it doesn't feel that the faster pace is a problem. Another group I play in takes about 4 hours or a bit longer. The better players are in the 2nd group. 

I generally don't mind the longer rounds when courses are busy. Usually, you can establish a pace that fits how folks are moving and not think about it much. I've had 3 rounds this season that went 5 to 5 1/2 hours, and this was very irritating. In heat, I feel wore out after waiting around to tee off all day, muscles tighten or feel dead. What's most frustrating is following erratic golfers who don't move predictably. I've been behind folks who backtrack, stop unexpectedly, get lost on a hole and return, etc. Seems to be more of this on late afternoons, weekends. Courses that use marshals that check pace-of-play are best. 

[iacas]

On 8/15/2018 at 11:38 AM, Fourputt said:

Assuming all else is equal, then breaking them up will be faster for each group, but from the first player teeing off to the final player to hole a putt the time will be about the same as for a fivesome.

It'll still be faster.

As a single I can play in two hours. So five singles would play in about 2 hours and 30 minutes, first to last.

But I wouldn't play in a fivesome in 2:30. Or 3:00. Maybe 3:30 if we were all fast.

2+3 < 5 in this case.

[ChetlovesMer]

What do you all think of playing ready golf on the green?

The group I play with, we all line up our putts (assuming you aren't actually in somebody's line) while the person putting is going through their routine. We generally stop moving right when the guy makes his stroke, but not always. If we're not in the guy's line of sight. 

Anyway, we are all off the green really quickly. However, a couple weeks ago I was playing with some guys who just went bat-$hit crazy over me moving while one of them was putting. I was paired up with a threesome that apparently all knew each other, and they all stayed completely still while each of them walked around their balls, checking both sides, plumb-bobbing, etc... 

So, on the first hole one of them was standing like 8 feet behind his ball looking at the line. I was well inside him, but not in his line by any stretch of the imagination. I was lining up my ball, putting the line I draw around my ball pointed in the right direction, when I realize they are all staring at me. The guy literally barks at me "ARE YOU DONE!" like I'm the A-hole. "uh, yeah." 90 seconds later he finishes his routine and putts his ball. 

They all played this way... We are on a freaking muni on a Friday afternoon. NOT the PGA tour. Each of these guys shot like 100 to 110, but every green took forever. I'm watching the foursome behind us waiting to hit approach shots, tossing grass in the air, chit chatting, stretching. Meanwhile, the entire round these guys are giving me stick-eye like I'm the least considerate guy on the planet. Even though I stood completely still any time any of us were on the green from then on. I even found their ball for them like a half dozen times, still no love. I guess my first impression was just not to be overcome. Probably one of the last enjoyable rounds I've ever played. 

My only revenge, I played well and finished with an 82. The guy that scolded me was the dude keeping score, so he had to know I would have beat him by 20 strokes. I'm not saying that we shouldn't respect everyone's needs on the course, but the course is packed, and these guys are playing a 5½ round, spending more time on the green than it is supposed to take to play the hole. 

So, I'm curious, what do you all consider fair practices for ready golf on the greens? 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

What do you all think of playing ready golf on the green?

…

However, a couple weeks ago I was playing with some guys who just went bat-$hit crazy over me moving while one of them was putting. I was paired up with a threesome that apparently all knew each other, and they all stayed completely still while each of them walked around their balls, checking both sides, plumb-bobbing, etc...

"while one of them was putting" implies that they're at least addressing the ball.

I'd be bothered by someone moving around within my eyesight (or if they were making noise) too if I'm addressing the ball.

5 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

 So, on the first hole one of them was standing like 8 feet behind his ball looking at the line. I was well inside him, but not in his line by any stretch of the imagination. I was lining up my ball, putting the line I draw around my ball pointed in the right direction, when I realize they are all staring at me. The guy literally barks at me "ARE YOU DONE!" like I'm the A-hole. "uh, yeah." 90 seconds later he finishes his routine and putts his ball. 

Well, you kinda were. You shouldn't assume that everyone is going to play ready golf.

Even in 2019 when that's encouraged under the Rules instead of technically being a breach of the Rules, people will still generally play by who is away, particularly on the green.

---

That doesn't mean - at all - that I condone the way he told you or their behavior the rest of the round (to you or on the greens).

But you should've communicated. Would've saved everyone some grief.

[HJJ003]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

But you should've communicated

Yeah, I would love to see people (in casual rounds) play ready golf as the natural thing to do but I always make sure to ask on the first tee (or sometimes first green) "everyone ok with ready golf?". I have never had anyone say no. 

[ChetlovesMer]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

 You shouldn't assume that everyone is going to play ready golf.

But you should've communicated. Would've saved everyone some grief.

You are probably right. I guess I get used to how "my guys" play and just kind of assume others play that way too. 

So, how much do you all move about on the greens with your regular group? Is my group abnormal, somewhat normal, or pretty common?

[HJJ003]

2 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

So, how much do you all move about on the greens with your regular group? Is my group abnormal, somewhat normal, or pretty common?

I try not to "move" much during them standing over a putt. However, if I have a 20 foot putt and my buddy has a 6 foot putt and he is ready before me..I don't care if he putts as long as he isn't standing in my line 🙂

[ChetlovesMer]

3 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

I try not to "move" much during them standing over a putt. However, if I have a 20 foot putt and my buddy has a 6 foot putt and he is ready before me..I don't care if he putts as long as he isn't standing in my line 🙂

What about plumb bobbing and looking at the break and what not? My group we all do that at the same time. We all put a line on our ball or use the logo to line up putts too. Would it be acceptable in your group to mark and then position the ball, rotating it so the line is pointed at the hole while other are going through their routines? Maybe not actually making a stroke, but just lining up their putt? 

[DeadMan]

I think once they've addressed the ball, you should either be out of their line of sight or, if you're in their line of sight, not moving. If someone has a problem with you doing stuff on the green while they're reading the break, placing their ball, etc., they're ridiculous. Once they're over the putt, it's different.

Not doing anything while someone else is reading their putt is an entirely different animal. You don't have to be playing ready golf to be ready to play when it's your turn to putt.

[ChetlovesMer]

5 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

I think once they've addressed the ball, you should either be out of their line of sight or, if you're in their line of sight, not moving. If someone has a problem with you doing stuff on the green while they're reading the break, placing their ball, etc., they're ridiculous. Once they're over the putt, it's different.

Not doing anything while someone else is reading their putt is an entirely different animal. You don't have to be playing ready golf to be ready to play when it's your turn to putt.

Yeah, this dude was like 8 feet away from his ball. I assumed he wasn't quote unquote "Ready to putt". I guess I shouldn't have assumed, but come on guys. Does somebody moving around while your reading the green affect your read? 

[HJJ003]

33 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

What about plumb bobbing and looking at the break and what not? My group we all do that at the same time. We all put a line on our ball or use the logo to line up putts too. Would it be acceptable in your group to mark and then position the ball, rotating it so the line is pointed at the hole while other are going through their routines? Maybe not actually making a stroke, but just lining up their putt? 

If they are about to make a stroke, I am either moving out of their line of sight, or not moving if I am in their line of sight. Each situation is a little different.