Why do all pro's swing X stiff?

[Ladysmanfelpz]

Just curious.

 

I've been watching some of the videos by Mark Crossfield and other youtube pro's and there is an argument to how much shaft stiffness truly matters.  Obviously too whippy is gonna lead to inconsistent strikes and dispersion.  I'm a S stiff guy, like I'm sure a lot of us amateurs are, but what makes these pro's need and prefer X?  Is it all the dispersion?  Because it can't be swing speed.  Bernhard Langer, Tom Gillis and all these guys on the champions tours still swing X even with decreasing swing speeds compared to the younger pro's.  So why is it?

 

And also are there any pro's that choose to swing a S or R flex and why? 

[saevel25]

They swing a golf club fitted for them taking into consideration their own personal queries. 

There is no industry standard with golf shaft flex. 

[onthehunt526]

Technically, by fitting I should probably swing an S-Flex shaft... But I play X-flex in my Driver, 4-wood, and Hybrid(s). 

Why? Because it feels like I'm swinging a rope with stiff. 

Tour pros, mostly their clubhead speed is faster than ours, but namely, feel. Feel, you would think isn't a big deal with a driver, but it is. They want to be able to feel the shaft.

But there is a lot more to their shafts tham just flex. Their is weight, bend profile, bend point, etc...

[Buckeyebowman]

These guys have access to a fitting regimen to be envied. They can try every shaft in the book and it doesn't cost them a dime! Of course they have all the data to go by to narrow down the search, but they make every effort to get the shaft that is perfect for their swing. If it has an "X" on it, so be it. "S", the same thing.

And like saevel25 said, shaft manufacturers are free to decide what flex characteristics are labeled X, S, R, and so on. There is no agreement across the board. You can demonstrate this to yourself at any decent golf shop. Pick any manufacturer and waggle their Drivers with S flex and R flex shafts in them. Then pick a different manufacturer using a different shaft and repeat the process. I'll bet you a dollar to a donut they will feel different!

[bm85]

Feel, spin, and wind I would guess. 

 

[saevel25]

  On 5/27/2017 at 1:12 AM, onthehunt526 said:

Technically, by fitting I should probably swing an S-Flex shaft... But I play X-flex in my Driver, 4-wood, and Hybrid(s). 

Why? Because it feels like I'm swinging a rope with stiff. 

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If it is the same brand and model, then I doubt it. The only different in the golf shaft would be about 3-4 grams of material. 

If they are different brand and model then the bend profile of the golf shaft will be completely different. That could make one feel more soft than another. 

 

[onthehunt526]

  On 5/27/2017 at 2:30 PM, saevel25 said:

If it is the same brand and model, then I doubt it. The only different in the golf shaft would be about 3-4 grams of material. 

If they are different brand and model then the bend profile of the golf shaft will be completely different. That could make one feel more soft than another. 

 

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That's true. With the shaft I play, I could probably play stiff... Mostly because I play one of the heavier shafts on the market.

[Valleygolfer]

Anything else probably feels like they are "pushing rope." I use XS in my driver and irons. They feel awesome. I use stiff in my fairway woods, they feel equally awesome. I tried reg flex irons and they are horribly whippy and lack feel so I assume it's even worse for some pros.

[Ladysmanfelpz]

K I know that flex rating is arbitrary.  There is no index, coefficient, or algorithm that determines it, purely just the manufacturers rating on it.  That being said I've noticed near every pro swings X.  Whereas near every avg Joe I know, from 5 handicap to 25 swings S or below.  Some of my buddies even have 115 mph driver swing speed and still swing S, were fitted into it, although not by a top coaching pro, just launch monitor.  Where these pro's will be in their 40's, Phil, Stricker, Langer and they still swing X.  So what gives?  Is X flex rating associated with lower handicap?  If so I want to get on this train.

 

Now I know correlation is not causation, but just something I noticed.  One of my buddies is scratch and he swings X but deservedly so as he swings hard.  Myself I've been trying to slow down my swing and especially slow the transition to gain consistency.  I've worked on and been told by multiple people I have a smooth transition, so right now my S graphite shafts and S ZZ lites on my eye 2's work great.  I tried one of his X flex drivers at the range a couple times and had trouble getting it to launch, even with a fairly quick SS of 105+.  I'm trying to make golf a lifelong game and envy the smooth swings of Ernie Els and the like, but if I am missing out on some big improvement in my game, I would like to work towards the X flex.  I think myself like everyone else out here, we want to become the best we can be. 

[vnmslsrbms]

I don't see a problem with you swinging X flex with 105+ swing speed.  I am about that, although on the course I'm swinging about 100.  Maybe I'm just used to it, but I load those shafts better.  S flex just feels whippier, not to mention R flex.  I think people can adjust their swings to get used to them though, it might take a while for some.  115 SS is very fast.  Tour average is 115, and I'm surprised you have multiple friends who swing that fast and all were fitted into S flex shafts.  Maybe all have very smooth transitions?

[paperclip]

Probably tempoi, transition, feel and also to try to keep the ball down

 

[onthehunt526]

  On 5/31/2017 at 8:17 AM, vnmslsrbms said:

I don't see a problem with you swinging X flex with 105+ swing speed.  I am about that, although on the course I'm swinging about 100.  Maybe I'm just used to it, but I load those shafts better.  S flex just feels whippier, not to mention R flex.  I think people can adjust their swings to get used to them though, it might take a while for some.  115 SS is very fast.  Tour average is 115, and I'm surprised you have multiple friends who swing that fast and all were fitted into S flex shafts.  Maybe all have very smooth transitions?

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This is a common misconception, Swing speed and clubhead speed are not the same thing. The clubhead goes much faster than one can swing their arms.

From my research the average clubhead speed on tour is 113 mph for an average carry distance of 269 yards total distance 289 yards.

I stated before I was fitted for stiff shafts in my woods. But chose to play extra stiff. I play the Matrix Black Tie 7M3 which is a heavy shaft... Around 77 grams. My hybrid shaft is 105 grams. (Which is actually heavier than my iron shafts, I play graphite), but it's all about feel for me. My clubhead speed is around 104 mph, I can get around 110 if I go after it though.

Not all pros swing extra stiff, I think Kuchar plays stiff in his irons, a few others guys play X in the driver, and S everything else. But keep in mind a lot of these "Tour issue" shafts in Stiff are much stiffer than the stock stiff an average Joe or Sand Trapper plays.

Edited May 31, 2017 by onthehunt526
Missed a sentence

[Billsy]

This discussion proves out the need for individual fitting and looking at ball flight. Many companies just slap label regarding the flex. The key is how well are you are swinging at hole 16 rather than 1. When we start we are fresh our fundamentals are strong. As we move through the round, fatigue will impact swing mechanics and performance. 

I have 65 grams in my woods and 110 in my irons so I swing well on the second shot on 1 and 18.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Billsy

[GolfLug]

  On 5/31/2017 at 5:33 PM, Billsy said:

This discussion proves out the need for individual fitting and looking at ball flight. Many companies just slap label regarding the flex. The key is how well are you are swinging at hole 16 rather than 1. When we start we are fresh our fundamentals are strong. As we move through the round, fatigue will impact swing mechanics and performance. 

I have 65 grams in my woods and 110 in my irons so I swing well on the second shot on 1 and 18.

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I doubt if it is that arbitrary. I would think most standard companies have shaft frequencies would be within 5% of each other.

  On 5/26/2017 at 10:04 PM, Ladysmanfelpz said:

Just curious.

 

I've been watching some of the videos by Mark Crossfield and other youtube pro's and there is an argument to how much shaft stiffness truly matters.  Obviously too whippy is gonna lead to inconsistent strikes and dispersion.  I'm a S stiff guy, like I'm sure a lot of us amateurs are, but what makes these pro's need and prefer X?  Is it all the dispersion?  Because it can't be swing speed.  Bernhard Langer, Tom Gillis and all these guys on the champions tours still swing X even with decreasing swing speeds compared to the younger pro's.  So why is it?

 

And also are there any pro's that choose to swing a S or R flex and why? 

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Yes, all dispersion control. Pros/high skill folks play high frequency shafts as these have less deformation at impact and shorter recovery which results in less dispersion of ball flight characteristics (launch angle, speed and spin). They loose benefit of club-head speed resulting from extra shaft recovery kick that more flexible shafts have but as you mentioned, they don't need it. 

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by GolfLug

[Billsy]

  On 5/31/2017 at 6:44 PM, GolfLug said:

I doubt if it is that arbitrary. I would think most standard companies have shaft frequencies would be within 5% of each other.

Yes, all dispersion control. Pros/high skill folks play high frequency shafts as these have less deformation at impact and shorter recovery which results in less dispersion of ball flight characteristics (launch angle, speed and spin). They loose benefit of club-head speed resulting from extra shaft recovery kick that more flexible shafts have but as you mentioned, they don't need it. 

 

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You would be surprised that companies are not within 5%. My guess it varies greatly. I have been fitted multiple times and flex labels mystify me. When you spend more for the proper shaft, companies tend to get it right. KBS gets the measurements on the money. 

[Joeyvee]

  On 5/31/2017 at 4:09 AM, Ladysmanfelpz said:

 Is X flex rating associated with lower handicap?  If so I want to get on this train.

 I would like to work towards the X flex.  

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The answer to your first question is Hell's no. Do not confuse a shaft rating with lowering your handicap. My Dad is close to shooting his age and he has been playing senior graphite shafts for God knows how long and he aint 80 yet. 

Don't bother working towards X Flex. Work towards lowering your scores, get fit every few index jumps and MAYBE one day if your swing is grooved enough, and fast enough, you will need x flex. But don't count on it because I have played with enough scratch golfers and non e of them used X. Shoot a lot of them used off the rack Stiff shafts and clubs. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by Joeyvee

[Groucho Valentine]

Most of the better players i know swing x-flex for dispersion and ball flight reasons, not really to match it up with swing speed. Im among them. My swing speed with a 7i is probably only around 85mph. I don't really hit a stiff any differently than an X most of the time other than the occasional draw with the stiff on aggressive swings. My bad swings with an X don't fly as far off line.