A rules question from this morning's round.

[Apoc81]

Was playing a straight par 4, water on the left, bunkers up the right side along the woods, and hit a beautiful drive to within 100 yards, great shot out of the fairway. 

Now, I was playing a foursome, and we all saw this. A fox came out of  the woods, stole my ball, and ran back into the woods. The others in my foursome all saw it, all agreed I should take a free drop as close as possible to the original lie, but I didn't hand in my round because nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done. The only answers I got at all were "Take a free drop, who cares?"

I care though, and I would like to know the actual ruling. 

[bkuehn1952]

The advice to drop as close as possible to the original spot was correct.  The fox is an "outside agency" and a ball moved (or stolen) by an outside agency is dropped without penalty.

Of course, one must be virtually certain that an outside agency was involved.  In this instance, there was no issue with the cause of the disappearance.

Edited May 29, 2017 by bkuehn1952

[Apoc81]

Just now, bkuehn1952 said:

The advice to drop as close as possible to the original spot was correct.  The fox is an "outside agency" and a ball moved (or stolen) by an outside agency is dropped without penalty.

Thank you very much. I was about to start reading through the rulebook to see if it said anything, it's been a few years since I read it.. I probably still will, but it's nice to know everyone's instincts weren't wrong. 

[iacas]

Ball at rest moved.

Very easy rule to find. I have no idea how "nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done." Everyone has smart phones.

[Shindig]

37 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Thank you very much. I was about to start reading through the rulebook to see if it said anything, it's been a few years since I read it.. I probably still will, but it's nice to know everyone's instincts weren't wrong. 

In addition to the rules book, get a copy of Tuft's Principles of the Rules of Golf -- I have found when I don't know a rule offhand, I can often figure out what it is based on this.  

(Note to people reading in the future:  I hope, but do not know, that this will still apply with the pending rules changes)

[David in FL]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Ball at rest moved.

Very easy rule to find. I have no idea how "nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done." Everyone has smart phones.

Really.

Hell, the USGA has a free app that everyone should have on their phone.  For an extra $1.99 or so you can get the decisions included too.

 

[iacas]

Just now, David in FL said:

Really.

Hell, the USGA has a free app that everyone should have on their phone.  For an extra $1.99 or so you can get the decisions included too.

People complain about how difficult the rules are… but they can't find the easy stuff. Laziness?

[Apoc81]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Ball at rest moved.

Very easy rule to find. I have no idea how "nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done." Everyone has smart phones.

Because the pro wasn't there and its a bunch of university kids working in the clubhouse for the summer. Normally I would have asked the course pro, but he's not there Mondays or Tuesdays. They were more focused on hiring gorgeous brunettes who look good in golf skirts and tight tops than people who knew what was going on. 

 

It's a beautiful course, but sex sells, not knowledge. Especially at a course 75+% men over forty. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Apoc81

[iacas]

50 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Because the pro wasn't there and its a bunch of university kids working in the clubhouse for the summer. Normally I would have asked the course pro, but he's not there Mondays or Tuesdays. They were more focused on hiring gorgeous brunettes who look good in golf skirts and tight tops than people who knew what was going on.

Don't take this the wrong way, but… you're a 9. I know you were away from the game for a bit, so that may be a bit out of date, but you were a 9. It's puzzling to me why you'd have to ask this - that you wouldn't know how to look it up (or you didn't care to try?).

People complain about how difficult the Rules of Golf are, but this is one of the easiest ones to look up and find. The entire rule is called "Ball at Rest Moved" and is the title of the whole rule or "chapter." Online it's directly under a thing called "Ball moved, deflected, or stopped."

Again, don't take it the wrong way. What you do in a far away land that has no bearing on me really doesn't matter much. It really doesn't, and I'm happy you're back to playing golf again. Really glad.

But maybe use this as a little impetus to poke around the Rules, using a smart phone or a copy of the Rules of Golf in recycled dead tree form… because I think you'll learn how easily most of the answers are to find.

[Apoc81]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but… you're a 9. I know you were away from the game for a bit, so that may be a bit out of date, but you were a 9. It's puzzling to me why you'd have to ask this - that you wouldn't know how to look it up (or you didn't care to try?).

People complain about how difficult the Rules of Golf are, but this is one of the easiest ones to look up and find. The entire rule is called "Ball at Rest Moved" and is the title of the whole rule or "chapter." Online it's directly under a thing called "Ball moved, deflected, or stopped."

Again, don't take it the wrong way. What you do in a far away land that has no bearing on me really doesn't matter much. It really doesn't, and I'm happy you're back to playing golf again. Really glad.

But maybe use this as a little impetus to poke around the Rules, using a smart phone or a copy of the Rules of Golf in recycled dead tree form… because I think you'll learn how easily most of the answers are to find.

I had no rules book on me, and I have never, ever encountered a situation where an animal stole a ball right in front of me. I've lost balls in the fairway, all sorts of stupid stuff, but it was just a situation I didn't know offhand. I haven't played since before the 2016 rules were finalized, and hadn't read the rules book in years (looked up rules, but never read cover to cover), which I stupidly did not have with me. Like I said, it was just a situation I never encountered, and had a good idea of the ruling, but no actual evidence and nobody who could ensure me that I was doing the right thing. I'll hand in the card wednesday, and all will be fine, and I won't be handing in a card i'm not sure of. Thats why I asked on here right after my round. 

 

Edit: I don't know why it says 9, this is the first time ive been above a 9hcp since my teens. I'll need to adjust that once I have enough rounds in. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Apoc81

[DaveP043]

I'll echo what @iacas said, I believe that everyone who plays reasonably serious golf should have the rules with them, in some form.  I've been a member of the USGA for a good while now, and one o the good things about membership is the brand new RoG that I get every spring.  Anyway, you got the right response above.  I actually had a fox steal MY ball a couple weeks ago, in plain sight, and we all knew the rule in our group.

[Rulesman]

The actual Rule is here

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-18,18-1

While you're there just have a look around.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Rulesman

[boogielicious]

18 hours ago, iacas said:

Ball at rest moved.

Very easy rule to find. I have no idea how "nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done." Everyone has smart phones.

But that would require using my fingers to open the phone, open my FREE USGA Rules of Golf App, looking up the ball at rest moved by an outside agency rule and reading the rule. I'm not sure I have the energy for that. 

[Apoc81]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

But that would require using my fingers to open the phone, open my FREE USGA Rules of Golf App, looking up the ball at rest moved by an outside agency rule and reading the rule. I'm not sure I have the energy for that. 

Number one, I had no idea there was a free rules of golf app. Do you have to be a member of the USGA? Because i'm Canadian, and Golf Canada doesn't give us free anything besides a crappy quarterly magazine. I didn't have a current rules book with me, as I was forced out of the game for almost 3 years due to a workplace injury. I encountered a situation that had never happened to me before and asked a simple question. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Apoc81

[David in FL]

3 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Number one, I had no idea there was a free rules of golf app. Do you have to be a member of the USGA? Because i'm Canadian, and Golf Canada doesn't give us free anything besides a crappy quarterly magazine. I didn't have a current rules book with me, as I was forced out of the game for almost 3 years due to a workplace injury. I encountered a situation that had never happened to me before and asked a simple question. 

No need to be a USGA member.

Simple download.  Spend the extra $1.99 or whatever it is to get the Decisions too.

[Apoc81]

Just now, David in FL said:

No need to be a USGA member.

Simple download.  Spend the extra $1.99 or whatever it is to get the Decisions too.

I actually just checked and picked them both up. Thanks. 

[iacas]

Even without the app… it's a free website. Works on mobile too.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/Rules-Explorer

Either jurisdiction!

[Club Rat]

@Apoc81 and as always, TST is a great place to inquire and learn about Rules and Decisions.
While I always seem to get my "Tit in a Ringer" when discussing Rules, it's by far my most favorite golf topics.