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Cartboy

Etiquette Violation?

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In a friendly, yet competitive, round claiming to be playing by the rules of golf (except, of course, for those rules anyone cares to waive for themselves :-)), would it be a violation of any rule for a person to engage in a rant (ie political), and chide the other members of the group for not agreeing . . . and, for example, to make snide comments when those who are not in agreement are addressing their shot . . . and, for example, to not let it go when the other members of the group ask them to?

'tis the time we live in

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What would you do if that same person always touches his ball on the green, to line it up, without placing a mark?  & always has, as do others he regularly plays with

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Is it possible to do anything about that, and still keep it a friendly game?

 

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For the first question, its rude to engage in political or religious or any other kind of rant, chiding those who disagree, all of that, in ANY setting.  On the golf course or off it, its just rude.

The second question, what to do about the guy who lines the ball up without marking it, its perfectly appropriate to say "did you know you're required to mark the ball when you line it up?"  If he doesn't care, or doesn't want to change, let it go, its a casual round of golf among friends.  If he says he IS allowed to do it, hand him your rule book (I assume you carry one) and ask him to show you the rule.

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There are several of us who play together several times a year. We are all friends, and have been for decades. A few of us since highschool. Others since college. One is a practicing politician. We ring him out several times a year because of his trade. 

All our rounds are friendly, fun rounds. We rag on each other in a fun, sort of way. Do we skirt the rules?   Sure, sometimes.

Now when we, or I, play with unknown others, we hold playing etiquette in high esteem. The unknown to us players might not, but we don't make a big deal about it if they don't. Just not our problem, and no need to let other players actions influence our games. 

Edited by Patch

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Those are both on target, and about how we all deal with each other.

It just kinda rubs me the wrong way that we claim to be playing by the rules, and sometimes someone will call someone on a violation, when they are violating 16-1 and 20-1 on every hole.

As for the political tirade, we were playing Quota that day, so everyone was competing against everyone else.  Those of us who were victims did as has been suggested, "Let it go."

FWIW, the ranter was the big winner for the day.

:-)

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1 hour ago, Cartboy said:

Is it possible to do anything about that, and still keep it a friendly game?

 

Sure -

  • Remind everyone you're not on the PGA Tour, so then you can
  • Let it all go.  The alternative is don't play together - pick one.
  • If you guys are able to let it go - then point and laugh at anyone that brings up the rules.  Make it a joke for the group and just acknowledge you're playing a game and not really a contest
  • As for the political discussions......meh, focus and play through distractions.....or join in and even talk while you're hitting AND when the guy it hitting....just keep up a string of political chatter the entire time and exhaust the guy to death.  Wallow in the cruel and stupid stereotypes each party has for the other and only use meme and strawman arguments and insults----everyone's doing it, join in the fun. 
  • what's the worse that can happen from dehumanizing each other for subjective political beliefs? (this last bullet picture the delivery as wry, and very VERY sad.  the rest is lighthearted.)
Edited by rehmwa

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The only time I would even consider saying anything is if someone called something on me, and then I might say, "I'll take that stroke if you take one for every time you touch the ball without marking it," and I doubt that I would ever say that.

In the OP I was just wondering if the political rant violated any rules.

General Points

The game of golf should be played in the correct spirit and in accordance with the Etiquette Section in the Rules of Golf. In particular: • show consideration to other players.

All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

No Disturbance or Distraction

Players should always show consideration for other players on the course and should not disturb their play by moving, talking or making unnecessary noise.

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1 hour ago, Cartboy said:

The only time I would even consider saying anything is if someone called something on me, and then I might say, "I'll take that stroke if you take one for every time you touch the ball without marking it," and I doubt that I would ever say that.

In the OP I was just wondering if the political rant violated any rules.

General Points

The game of golf should be played in the correct spirit and in accordance with the Etiquette Section in the Rules of Golf. In particular: • show consideration to other players.

All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

No Disturbance or Distraction

Players should always show consideration for other players on the course and should not disturb their play by moving, talking or making unnecessary noise.

To be honest, I don't really think that the topic of his diatribe would be relevant.  The only issue is whether he continued it while you are playing a stroke.  If etiquette applied to subject matter, there are times when it would be difficult to carry on any sort of a conversation.  

However, a considerate person would cease his rant if he knew that it was upsetting to someone else, whether on the course or not.

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23 hours ago, Cartboy said:

In the OP I was just wondering if the political rant violated any rules.

Potentially, yes. In your scenario it seems your guy was 'intentionally offending someone'.

33-7/8

 

Meaning of "Serious Breach of Etiquette"

Q.In Rule 33-7, what is meant by a "serious breach of etiquette"?

A.A serious breach of etiquette is behavior by a player that shows a significant disregard for an aspect of the Etiquette Section, such as intentionally distracting another player or intentionally offending someone.

Although a Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7 for a single act that it considers to be a serious breach of etiquette, in most cases it is recommended that such a penalty should be imposed only in the event of a further serious breach.

Ultimately, the application of a penalty for a serious breach of etiquette under Rule 33-7 is at the discretion of the Committee.

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29 minutes ago, Martyn W said:

Potentially, yes. In your scenario it seems your guy was 'intentionally offending someone'.

33-7/8

 

Meaning of "Serious Breach of Etiquette"

Q.In Rule 33-7, what is meant by a "serious breach of etiquette"?

A.A serious breach of etiquette is behavior by a player that shows a significant disregard for an aspect of the Etiquette Section, such as intentionally distracting another player or intentionally offending someone.

Although a Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7 for a single act that it considers to be a serious breach of etiquette, in most cases it is recommended that such a penalty should be imposed only in the event of a further serious breach.

Ultimately, the application of a penalty for a serious breach of etiquette under Rule 33-7 is at the discretion of the Committee.

Great info.

I've known about the Ettiquette section of the rules, which is sorta the "preamble", with no penalties, but have never known about the Rule.  Probably my ADD does not allow me to read that far.

As a side-saddle putter, now I have something for those "rules experts" who won't let that go.

:-)

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I'm sure opinions will vary considerably.

The last thing I want while playing a friendly game of golf is political debate, good times or bad. A random comment is OK, but not a debate while playing golf IMHO. If it's just one guy, all the other three have to do is not engage, collectively change the subject or tell the guy to knock it off or save it for after the round. If the instigator insists/persists and it's really unpleasant, I just wouldn't play with him again. I play to enjoy golf and socialize with others, if either is missing - I'd move on. YMMV

I see more minor rules "infractions" than not when I play (what's a gimmie is classic, I've refused gimmies). I always mark my ball, but I don't really care what another player does. Especially in your example as long as the player is just "spinning" the ball without moving it at all - I've seen lots of people do that. And it depends on the league rules. If it's a winter rules league, not marking to line up a ball to putt might be picking nIts?

Edited by Midpack

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I play a lot of golf in a tournament league.  Because of this, even in casual rounds, I play by the rules.  In those casual rounds, I play with a lot of guys who do not ever play tournament golf.  They just play for the enjoyment of being out on the course.  In those casual rounds, If a guy touches his ball without marking it...I really don't care unless there is money on the line and he is gaining some sort of advantage.  But, just to reach down, on say the green, and spin the ball around so you alignment mark is where you want it to be without marking the ball first...I don't really care.  I have told lots of guys, "Hey, you do xxxxx in a tournament, someone probably will call it on you and it will cost you strokes."  If they continue to do it...again, I don't really care.  

Now, the guys that I play in the tournament league with...they would call stuff on you in a heartbeat.  But, that is totally different situation.  

The one thing that does bug me and I will call a person on it even in casual rounds...they drop their coin in front of the ball, pick up the ball, and when they replace, the put the ball in front of the coin.  It is amazing how many will say..."I don't do that".  So, when I see it happen, I usually comment "you are going to put you ball behind that mark when you replace, aren't you?"  I do my best to say it in a jovial manner.  

Edited by RickK

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16 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

I don't mind not calling the "casual" stuff on someone, but I do mind when the same person calls "casual" stuff on me.

 

 

That is why I play by the rules myself, even in casual rounds.  I look at it like this, if someone calls something on me in a casual rounds, I really want to know if I did something wrong per the Rules of Golf.  If I did it in a casual round and did not realize it, I could very well do the same thing in my tournament league and get penalized.  It is not all that hard to play by the rules and it is just the right thing to do...always.  

Edited by RickK

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Talking about "casual" v. "tournament", this weekend is the biggest tournament in our area . . . 240 golfers (double shotgun) at three courses over three days.

Not that I intend to be stiff and inflexible, but when you don't abide by the rules in your casual rounds it's really easy to slip up in tournaments.

Habits are habit forming.  Bad and good.

It does not take any more effort to play by the rules, and if you play by the rules, it's natural and you don't have to be up-tight about it.  Conversely, playing sloppy leads to playing sloppy.

Speaking of gimmies v. putting everything out, we played Quota last time and our group probably cost ourselves a total of more than ten points by missing tap-ins we did not take the time to putt properly.  Just a bad habit . . . casual tap-ins.  I was plus 3, but would have been 6 or 7.

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On 6/16/2017 at 9:38 AM, Cartboy said:

What would you do if that same person always touches his ball on the green, to line it up, without placing a mark?  & always has, as do others he regularly plays with

Are you sure he's not marking it with his putter or some other object other than a coin? I often use my putter to save time if I'm just picking the ball up for a moment to clean it or something. 

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I pretty much just call people on behavior if they are being annoying, not that it happens a lot because I don't play with jerkasses. As far as rules go, I'm with @RickK and just let it go unless we are playing a match. I would probably say some smart ass remark to the guy doing it.

I'm am a golfing narcissist though. You could be cheating like a banshee and I would be so focused on my game, I would never notice.

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13 hours ago, drmevo said:

Are you sure he's not marking it with his putter or some other object other than a coin? I often use my putter to save time if I'm just picking the ball up for a moment to clean it or something. 

I was gonna say this.  I do the same in casual rounds.  If I'm near somebody's line and it's not my turn then I'll put down an actual mark, but otherwise I'm just peeking to make sure there's no sand or dirt on the ball so I'll just use my putter or nothing.

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18 hours ago, drmevo said:

Are you sure he's not marking it with his putter or some other object other than a coin.

yes

4 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

I was gonna say this.  I do the same in casual rounds.  If I'm near somebody's line and it's not my turn then I'll put down an actual mark, but otherwise I'm just peeking to make sure there's no sand or dirt on the ball so I'll just use my putter or nothing.

yup

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