Rahm: Incorrectly Replacing Ball?

[DeadMan]

Not sure who else is watching the Irish Open right, but there's an interesting rules situation with Jon Rahm that has a lot of parallels to the Lexi situation. Here's what happened:

• On the green.
• Rahm putts, his ball finishes basically on top of the other player's marker. 
• He marks his ball to the side, and then uses his putter head to move the mark to the side.
• Other player finishes.
• Rahm moves marker back with his putter head. No problem yet.
• He places his ball in front of the marker - he had originally marked it to the side.

Apparently he's discussed it with rules officials and there will be no penalty for this. I'm a little dumbfounded. Here's some tweets with explanation:

 

I'm trying to dig up video, but I haven't seen anything posted yet. I'm not sure I agree with this decision, especially that second tweet. Maybe it will change when they all look at the video at the end? I don't like that he's going to get away with being sloppy because he didn't mean to move the ball. 

It looks like it won't be relevant to the final winner of the event. Rahm is running away with the event right now - 2 strokes would not make a difference here in all likelihood. Honestly, if I'm Rahm, I'm taking the 2 strokes here no matter what. He'll get so much credit for doing it.

Edited July 9, 2017 by DeadMan

[DeadMan]

This is relevant as well:

 

[Golfingdad]

I saw them talking about it a bit ago and set the recorder so I can go back and get video of we need to.  Rules official seemed pretty reasonable about the whole thing.  So did Rahm.  Whole thing made little difference anyway because it would've been a couple strokes penalty at most and he won by 6.

[Rulesman]

http://www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/watch-rahm-escapes-penalty-replacing-his-ball-wrong-spot

See both videos

 

[DeadMan]

Embedded for the board: 

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by DeadMan

[Valleygolfer]

I actually think incorrectly marked the ball in the exact place it was supposed to be. So what he said was correct. He thought he put it back in the same spot.....which it looks like but not the same way he marked it. I think he knows that part was different.

[Rulesman]

Marking the mark and then back marking the remark is fraught with potential for mis-marking. Particularly in getting the absolute alignment of the marking guide (in this case the putter face) correct.

 

[DeadMan]

After thinking about this a little more, the one thing that makes me think this isn't a penalty is that Rahm had to move his marker in the first place. When you're doing that, you are going to be imprecise no matter how careful you are. Once you've moved your marker, you aren't going to be playing from exactly the same position. The rules already allow imprecision in this case, so Rahm's adding a small amount of additional imprecision isn't a big deal.

Not sure I buy that, but it's a thought.

[David in FL]

8 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

After thinking about this a little more, the one thing that makes me think this isn't a penalty is that Rahm had to move his marker in the first place. When you're doing that, you are going to be imprecise no matter how careful you are. Once you've moved your marker, you aren't going to be playing from exactly the same position. The rules already allow imprecision in this case, so Rahm's adding a small amount of additional imprecision isn't a big deal.

Not sure I buy that, but it's a thought.

Why wouldn't you buy it?  You're right!  

[DeadMan]

21 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Why wouldn't you buy it?  You're right!  

Because the flip side is that his marker was pretty big and he replaced his ball on the wrong side of it, and ended up closer to the hole. I think the video makes it pretty obvious that he didn't replace the ball the same way he marked it.

[David in FL]

Just now, DeadMan said:

Because the flip side is that his marker was pretty big and he replaced his ball on the wrong side of it, and ended up closer to the hole. I think the video makes it pretty obvious that he didn't replace the ball the same way he marked it.

You don't have to replace the ball "the same way you marked it".  You need to replace it in the same spot where it was originally.  

Whether accidentally, or by design, he did that.  As you and @Rulesman alluded to, moving the mark itself also adds a little extra degree of difficulty and allows for a little more latitude in defining any reasonable margin for error.

[Vinsk]

Rahm could've just pulled a Bubba and looked to his caddie and say, "Shoulda caught that bro! Shoulda caught that!"

[drmevo]

Not to get too OT, but do the rules require one to move his or her mark when an opponent or FC requests it? Obviously etiquette would dictate moving it but I'm not 100% clear on whether it is required based on the way the rule is worded. This is more of a curiosity, I'm not planning to deny anyone 

[DeadMan]

33 minutes ago, David in FL said:

You don't have to replace the ball "the same way you marked it".  You need to replace it in the same spot where it was originally.  

Whether accidentally, or by design, he did that.  As you and @Rulesman alluded to, moving the mark itself also adds a little extra degree of difficulty and allows for a little more latitude in defining any reasonable margin for error.

Everything you said here is totally right. There's also no way to definitively prove if he replaced it in the original spot. It just doesn't sit well with me that Rahm was sloppy but got lucky and replaced in the right spot.

[David in FL]

37 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Not to get too OT, but do the rules require one to move his or her mark when an opponent or FC requests it? Obviously etiquette would dictate moving it but I'm not 100% clear on whether it is required based on the way the rule is worded. This is more of a curiosity, I'm not planning to deny anyone 

Yes.

The coin is a moveable obstruction, and as such the player is entitled to having it moved if he desires.

[Rulesman]

2 hours ago, drmevo said:

Not to get too OT, but do the rules require one to move his or her mark when an opponent or FC requests it? 

22-2. Ball Interfering with Play

Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that another ball might interfere with his play, he may have it lifted.

[Fourputt]

2 hours ago, drmevo said:

Not to get too OT, but do the rules require one to move his or her mark when an opponent or FC requests it? Obviously etiquette would dictate moving it but I'm not 100% clear on whether it is required based on the way the rule is worded. This is more of a curiosity, I'm not planning to deny anyone 

 

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

Yes.

The coin is a moveable obstruction, and as such the player is entitled to having it moved if he desires.

Actually, in stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may choose to play his stroke first, as long as that doesn't interfere with the play of another player.

Quote

22-2. Ball Interfering with Play

Except when a ball is in motion, if a player considers that another ball might interfere with his play, he may have it lifted.

A ball lifted under this Rule must be replaced (see Rule 20-3). The ball must not be cleaned, unless it lies on the putting green (see Rule 21).

In stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may play first rather than lift the ball.

 

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

 

Actually, in stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may choose to play his stroke first, as long as that doesn't interfere with the play of another player.

 

A little pedantic here, but its golf rules, so that seems apropos ... the wording if that rule says the player may choose to "play first rather than lift the ball."  But the question above was asking about a coin, and thus a ball that has already been lifted.  Does the player still retain the option to play first at that point?