Rahm: Incorrectly Replacing Ball?

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

A little pedantic here, but its golf rules, so that seems apropos ... the wording if that rule says the player may choose to "play first rather than lift the ball."  But the question above was asking about a coin, and thus a ball that has already been lifted.  Does the player still retain the option to play first at that point?

Since the marker represents the ball for all practical purposes, I'd think yes.  When I'm in that situation where I feel that my marker will have to be moved, I usually just putt first.  

But think of the cases where you see a pro play his first putt, then mark, check and reposition the ball, replace it and putt out, even when he isn't away.  As long as I don't have to stand in another player's line, or take an inordinate amount of time, it's just a bit faster to simply play the stroke.

[rehmwa]

On 7/9/2017 at 11:27 AM, DeadMan said:

This is relevant as well:

I don't know why this picture right here just doesn't END the conversation right now.  Whatever his process, etc, he put the ball back where it was.

Some of the on line comments, not so much here, is pretty sad.  Especially on the GolfChannel there are some very sad and petty posters.

Edited July 10, 2017 by rehmwa

[TropicalSandTrap]

This guy plays an amazing round and all Brandle Chamblee and golf central are focused on is whether Rahm marked his ball at 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock before placing it back at 12 o'clock for the putt. Why?  Who cares?  Guy had a 4 foot putt before he marked his ball, and he had an identical 4 foot putt after he placed his ball down. 

Chamblee is the same clown who watches all of Bernhardt Langers rounds to watch if his extended putter grazes the shirt at all during a round and then goes nuts if it does. 

Im all for strict adherence to the rules, but some of this stuff that Chamblee likes to try to make a big deal about simply is not a violation. That guy should have worked harder at his game instead of being the nerd in the clubhouse accusing everyone else of cheating and maybe he would have made more cuts. 

[p1n9183]

Saw it live, for me it´s definitivly a penalty. He lifted the ball from a side of the ballmark and place it in front of it, closer to the hole. It´s an advantage and a break of the rule despite been unintentional. if we apply all the rules like lexy´s then this one must be upplyed too.
I guess they favor the less controvertial call...   

[Golfingdad]

5 hours ago, p1n9183 said:

Saw it live, for me it´s definitivly a penalty. He lifted the ball from a side of the ballmark and place it in front of it, closer to the hole. It´s an advantage and a break of the rule despite been unintentional. if we apply all the rules like lexy´s then this one must be upplyed too.
I guess they favor the less controvertial call...   

That's not entirely what happened, though.  You're leaving out a crucial part in the middle; the part where he moved his marker so his FC could putt and then moved it back.  It might be fairly evident that the ball was replaced differently in relation to the mark, however it's not evident that the ball was replaced in a different spot than the ball was lifted from - which is all that matters.  In fact, the superimposed photos two posts directly above yours show that the ball was, in fact, replaced in the correct spot.

That said, I doubt the rules official had that information at hand when he made the ruling, so in a sense, I still see your point.  I think he made a great call, though, in being cautious, and by speaking with the player and actually listening to what they had to say about it (this is one of the things I didn't like about Lexi's situation - they didn't discuss it with her) and taking that into account when he made the ruling.

[TropicalSandTrap]

On 7/9/2017 at 6:44 AM, Golfingdad said:

I saw them talking about it a bit ago and set the recorder so I can go back and get video of we need to.  Rules official seemed pretty reasonable about the whole thing.  So did Rahm.  Whole thing made little difference anyway because it would've been a couple strokes penalty at most and he won by 6.

Yet golf channel devoted hours to this controversy Sunday. Was a black eye to the integrity of the game. Officials needed to protect he field. Blah, blah, blah. #FireBrandleChamblee

[Valleygolfer]

3 hours ago, TropicalSandTrap said:

Yet golf channel devoted hours to this controversy Sunday. Was a black eye to the integrity of the game. Officials needed to protect he field. Blah, blah, blah. #FireBrandleChamblee

The "black eye" of the game is often the National Enquirer" behavior of the golf channel to validate the importance of the talking heads. Chamblee is an asshat that glad takes the devils advocate, bad guy position or contradictorian (I made that word up) because he knows everyone hates him already. The way the GC reported it and showed it, it looked like he cheated but in reality he didn't. They "chose" the controversial route and then act sympathetic to the golfer like, "we didn't do anything but report the news." As usual the media lies to us for their benefit.

[TropicalSandTrap]

The story should have been what a fantastic round of golf this young guy played two weeks before the open. Instead it was this BS. 

I would have liked to see some highlight shots. Instead I got to see a bunch of replays of him marking the ball and putting it back where it was and talking to the official and then jogging to the tee and then flash to brandle Chamblee talking about how horrible this event was for the game and then another clip of this guy marking his ball in the exact same spot. I would have loved to see more of his shots from the round. 

[iacas]

9 hours ago, TropicalSandTrap said:

Im all for strict adherence to the rules…

Either they are violations or they are not. Brandel is of the opinion that they are. I don't think Rahm misplaced his ball, but Bernhard may be anchoring. There's little room for judgment in the Rules of Golf.

9 hours ago, TropicalSandTrap said:

That guy should have worked harder at his game instead of being the nerd in the clubhouse accusing everyone else of cheating and maybe he would have made more cuts.

That's not really that relevant. You get to have an opinion. So do I. So does Brandel.

Except he gets paid for his. It's his job.

[David in FL]

26 minutes ago, TropicalSandTrap said:

The story should have been what a fantastic round of golf this young guy played two weeks before the open. Instead it was this BS. 

I would have liked to see some highlight shots. Instead I got to see a bunch of replays of him marking the ball and putting it back where it was and talking to the official and then jogging to the tee and then flash to brandle Chamblee talking about how horrible this event was for the game and then another clip of this guy marking his ball in the exact same spot. I would have loved to see more of his shots from the round. 

You know, the entire round was on tv, right?  

[TropicalSandTrap]

In my time zone the round was over by 6 am

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, TropicalSandTrap said:

In my time zone the round was over by 6 am

DVR, my man…

[Missouri Swede]

1 hour ago, TropicalSandTrap said:

In my time zone the round was over by 6 am

 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

DVR, my man…

Gotta get in the appropriate mindset to watch the Open Championship next week!

[FinTurma]

Rahm definitely played the ball from a different position.. I don't think there's any question about that. I'm sure he didn't do it on purpose. He prob should've been penalised for playing from the wrong spot.. Great tournament for him anyway and he is looking good for future Ryder Cups ;)

EDIT: Read the beginning of the thread, and it seems he might have accidentally marked it in the same spot! What a weird thing.. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by FinTurma

[RandallT]

On 7/12/2017 at 1:06 AM, FinTurma said:

Rahm definitely played the ball from a different position.. I don't think there's any question about that. I'm sure he didn't do it on purpose. He prob should've been penalised for playing from the wrong spot.. Great tournament for him anyway and he is looking good for future Ryder Cups ;)

EDIT: Read the beginning of the thread, and it seems he might have accidentally marked it in the same spot! What a weird thing.. 

Yep. I think he got it EXACTLY right.

Here's the before zoomed in, with a stupid grid I've superimposed.

Here's the after zoomed in:

The grid is the exact same for both, the width/height of the hole. 

If you assume that camera is fixed and not some dude holding the camera in a tower, the zoom level shouldn't matter. 

To my eye, there is absolutely no difference in the two locations. By my math, with each grid being 4.25", that's a 21" putt both times. From the exact same point.

 

UPDATE: this methodology was a bit flawed and I can reproduce results with varying ball movements, depending on the zooms involved. See here: 

 

[rehmwa]

23 hours ago, TropicalSandTrap said:

That guy should have worked harder at his game instead of being the nerd in the clubhouse accusing everyone else of cheating

LOL - Well, he probably didn't have the internet back then

[TropicalSandTrap]

5 hours ago, RandallT said:

Yep. I think he got it EXACTLY right.

Here's the before zoomed in, with a stupid grid I've superimposed.

Here's the after zoomed in:

The grid is the exact same for both, the width/height of the hole. 

If you assume that camera is fixed and not some dude holding the camera in a tower, the zoom level shouldn't matter. 

To my eye, there is absolutely no difference in the two locations. By my math, with each grid being 4.25", that's a 21" putt both times. From the exact same point.

 

 

So it was not a violation. Just like the official correctly determined during the round  

Yet golf channel devoted its Sunday to this because brandel Chamblee has some weird obsession with trying to knock down those who achieve more than he could. 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, TropicalSandTrap said:

Yet golf channel devoted its Sunday to this because brandel Chamblee has some weird obsession with trying to knock down those who achieve more than he could. 

I think that's a mischaracterization of his motivations.

Goodness knows I've disagreed with him in the past, but I've never felt it's because he wants to knock people down.