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The Golf Ball "Problem": PGA Tour Players Hitting it Far is a Problem for All of Golf?

The Golf Ball "Problem"  

118 members have voted

  1. 1. Does the distance modern PGA Tour pros hit the ball pose a problem to golf as a whole?

    • Yes
      30
    • No
      88
  2. 2. What is the main source of the "problem" above?

    • The golf ball goes too far, primarily.
      22
    • Several factors all contribute heavily.
      13
    • I voted "No" above, and I don't think there's really a "problem" right now.
      83


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13 minutes ago, joro said:

How about dropping a ball on the slope of a WH and watching it obviously roll back into the hazard, that is bad enough but the rules say you have to do this twice before placing it.

The ball could stop. Look at Fred Couples at the Masters. The ball stopped on the slope on hole #12. It happens.

14 minutes ago, joro said:

The rules are, well, interesting.

The rules of golf are the fairest rules I have seen in sports. It doesn't go out of its way to protect a certain type of player (QB's in the NFL). It promotes that everyone plays on an equal footing based on their ability.

 

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I personally don't see the issue here but they could just set the course up a little differently to make it more difficult. Make the fairways narrower, rough taller and don't cut down the fairways as much to reduce roll.

It always seems like the people who want to roll back the ball only want to do so to make the themselves feel better about their game, "oh that pro hit it 250 just like I did yesterday".

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31 minutes ago, joro said:

Lihu, it would be very interesting, but I am not advocating different rules, I just think the current rules are way too much and some of them border on stupidity or have made it and who is responsible?   How about the USGA elite.

 

Quote

How about dropping a ball on the slope of a WH and watching it obviously roll back into the hazard, that is bad enough but the rules say you have to do this twice before placing it.    And of course it takes a while for this farce to go on.     Tell me what is the point when it is obvious the Ball is going downhill and into the water.     That is what I am talking about.    Ever see the Decisions Book, it is thick as the Bible,and some Bluenoses think it IS the Bible.     The rules are, well, interesting.

If I know it's going into the water I take my club and stop it just before it enters the hazard. Still within the rules. That's where learning to juggling a ball becomes useful. :-)

I treat the rules like rules. They are meant to be followed, and they even have decisions we can look at. That's partly what makes this game fun and interesting to me.

 

Quote

I am an old person now with a lot of old injuries, but I still love to play although I cannot walk due to a stroke and other things, but I still love to play and plan to keep on as long as I can.   So enjoy what you have while you got it, I did and have lots of great memories.

That's the way it should be, but it has nothing to do with following the rules. Rules are there to insure that the score you come up with is equitable with other golfers. If not all golfers use the same rules, how would you make the game equitable if you were to play with them?

At the end of the day, I don't care what my score is, but I do care if I actually played a game of golf, which is by the rules.

 

22 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

To me it's inconsistent to place such high emphasis on a set of rules as if they were handed down by GOD and at the same time advocate destroying the integrity of the game by playing modern gear on courses that were not designed for it.  On one hand people want to uphold something because of its historical value and on the other they advocate it's destruction.

"Just hit it over those bunkers in the fairway."

The rules are not equal to GOD. They are there so we can play the same game.

 

18 minutes ago, joro said:

God,,, AKA  USGA.     I am with you, but as the game goes to a power game, for the money obviously, we are in the minority.      Back to Wood, then the Ball wouldn't matter that much.

You have to ask yourself if you'd prefer to play golf or some other game? If golf, then your score will be reflected by the rules.

 

6 minutes ago, JxQx said:

I personally don't see the issue here but they could just set the course up a little differently to make it more difficult. Make the fairways narrower, rough taller and don't cut down the fairways as much to reduce roll.

It always seems like the people who want to roll back the ball only want to do so to make the themselves feel better about their game, "oh that pro hit it 250 just like I did yesterday".

The irony is that they're not even playing the same game.

Edited by Lihu

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JxQx, I have been saying that for a long time, set up the courses tougher and makes no difference, but that is not the Goal of the Tour or the Club Makers, it is power, and power sells.    Marketing has taken over the game for a long time now and it ain't gonna stop no matter what we think, and we will keep on trying to buy distance.      Sad the game has gone to thins, but it is what it is.   I am just glad I had the chance to play in the days when skill meant something.

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Just now, joro said:

JxQx, I have been saying that for a long time, set up the courses tougher and makes no difference, but that is not the Goal of the Tour or the Club Makers, it is power, and power sells.    Marketing has taken over the game for a long time now and it ain't gonna stop no matter what we think, and we will keep on trying to buy distance.      Sad the game has gone to thins, but it is what it is.   I am just glad I had the chance to play in the days when skill meant something.

You say this like hitting far is not a skill. :-D

 

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this has gone down a strange path for sure

if someone just plays just for fun they already have the option to play by whatever rules they like, play non-conforming equipment, play from whatever tee they like, disregard dropping twice, picking up the ball after too many shots, not go search in the thistles for an errant shot, or anything else.  Heck, if you don't slow down the rest of us, I don't care if you alternate between frisbee and illegally long golf balls, or use a pool cue on the putting green.  I would care if you want to compete in any way with others - there has to be a mechanism for the serious types to have fair playing field.

I just don't see the point in watering down the equipment on the rest of the world just to accommodate egos or course designer biases

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That is right rehmwa, play it the way you want, if you are just out for fun who cares.     I told my beginner students that it is okey to improve lies, or even tee it up in the Fairway if it helps to better learn and enjoy, and by all means keep it moving, there is nothing worse than playing behind someone who is whiffing the ball all day.   Now to the anal teeing it up in the Fairway is dreadful, but so is chopping and it does build confidence to work down to the grass.    Watering down the equipment, what do you mean by that.

11 minutes ago, Lihu said:

You say this like hitting far is not a skill. :-D

 

Yup, that is what I said.      Some have it some don't, simple as that.      They once asked a 100 mph + Baseball Pitcher what he did to throw so fast, his answer was he didn't know, he just threw it hard and it went fast.     Very few can do that, like flying a Golf Ball over 300, the rest are just lying or have no clue.

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Speed is a skill, @joro.

This isn't the topic to discuss "stupid rules." We've had plenty of those, and you're free to start your own if you have any specific ones you'd like to discuss. Myself and others can pretty easily explain why most of the Rules are the way they are. Also keep in mind the 2019 proposed rules.

I'll have more to say to some of the other posts later.

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3 hours ago, joro said:

JxQx, I have been saying that for a long time, set up the courses tougher and makes no difference, but that is not the Goal of the Tour or the Club Makers, it is power, and power sells.    Marketing has taken over the game for a long time now and it ain't gonna stop no matter what we think, and we will keep on trying to buy distance.      Sad the game has gone to thins, but it is what it is.   I am just glad I had the chance to play in the days when skill meant something.

I'm confused. You say that you're glad that you played when skill mattered but also say course difficulty doesn't matter? The whole premise behind rolling the ball back is to make shorter courses more difficult which conflicts with what you said. This seems to go back to what I was saying earlier that some people just don't like the fact that pro's hit it a lot further than they do or you just don't like marketing of golf equipment.

Also distance isn't just swinging fast, you can swing fast and still not hit the ball a long way. You need to swing fast and have good technique, for instance with a driver AoA is important for longer drives.

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Yes JxQx, you are confused.    Skill goes with beating a difficult course.    Sure if you can Drive it long it matters, but when a course plays tough and not just long it is a different story.   Long in my day with Wood and Balata was 280, I know cause I was there and in those days I was long.     It does take speed to hit it long but even speed is no good if you can't hit it where you need, no different than the old days where the trouble was in reach then also.    It is a different game today where power is taught and needed.     And the short game is always necessary, even today.   

Enjoy your game, that is what it is about.

 

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8 hours ago, RussUK said:

I think its mostly down to the stigma of using non-conforming gear. Some of the stuff makes sense for the weekenders like myself (i have the Polara XD balls that im testing out) and would allow them to enjoy the game more. I mean, if you're not fussed about comps or official handicaps why not?

Right, but the beer drinking, three-times-a-year golfer doesn't care what they're using. Everyone else, the 99% of golfers (by rounds) care. They probably play in a league. They may have a handicap. They will brag when they break 90 or 100 for the first time or the first time in a long time.

8 hours ago, RussUK said:

golfers need to ask themselves why they play golf. If its to play comps, for the handicap or to maybe turn pro then stick to the full rules and conforming gear. If you play for fun then use what helps you to reach that goal.

They have that option now, though. There just isn't much of a market, because why would a company invest much money into non-conforming equipment if there's not much of a market for it. We saw it with the Callaway ERC-II I think. It didn't go well. It tarnished Arnie's reputation, even.

6 hours ago, joro said:

There is an old film of a man testing out a Football Helmet from way back when.     He plows into a wall head first, which is kind of where this subject has gone.    It is what it is whether anyone likes it or not.    I think a Stupid Rules discussion about just how they came about and why is much more interesting.    Getting into the reason why the "Grand and Glorious Rulers" of the game have come up with some of these totally stupid Rules are interesting.

Not really the topic here. As I said before we have other topics discussing this, and you're welcome to start one of your own.

5 hours ago, joro said:

Lihu, it would be very interesting, but I am not advocating different rules, I just think the current rules are way too much and some of them border on stupidity or have made it and who is responsible?

Again, another topic is warranted here.

5 hours ago, joro said:

How about dropping a ball on the slope of a WH and watching it obviously roll back into the hazard, that is bad enough but the rules say you have to do this twice before placing it.

You've seen the 2019 proposed rules right?

And it's not just the USGA. It's the R&A too.

5 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

To me it's inconsistent to place such high emphasis on a set of rules as if they were handed down by GOD

Uhhhhhhhh…

5 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

and at the same time advocate destroying the integrity of the game by playing modern gear on courses that were not designed for it.

For what percentage of golfers? Because from where I'm sitting, 98% of golfers are probably good from 6500 or less.

5 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

On one hand people want to uphold something because of its historical value and on the other they advocate it's destruction.

I don't think that's accurate at all.

5 hours ago, JxQx said:

I personally don't see the issue here but they could just set the course up a little differently to make it more difficult. Make the fairways narrower, rough taller and don't cut down the fairways as much to reduce roll.

The lowest scores we see on the PGA Tour - without having to do much of those things - is -22 or so under par. That's for the winner, and half the field is still barely breaking par for 2-4 rounds.

Golf is (still) Hard®.

5 hours ago, Lihu said:

If I know it's going into the water I take my club and stop it just before it enters the hazard. Still within the rules.

No it's not.

5 hours ago, Lihu said:

The rules are not equal to GOD. They are there so we can play the same game.

Yes.

5 hours ago, joro said:

Yup, that is what I said.      Some have it some don't, simple as that.      They once asked a 100 mph + Baseball Pitcher what he did to throw so fast, his answer was he didn't know, he just threw it hard and it went fast.     Very few can do that, like flying a Golf Ball over 300, the rest are just lying or have no clue.

It's still a skill. Fast baseball players can steal bases and stretch doubles into triples. Slow ones can't. Speed is a skill.

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I know  for myself as a golf fan I want to be able to watch golf and have it entertain me.  There's really only three tournaments anymore I pay attention to Masters British and US Open.  The last couple years the US has been a dud but I keep watching hoping it will once again become the ultimate test.

I want to see the best quality golf.  I think that's where this whole discussion of distance comes in.  Nicklaus Snead et all for the most part could swing much faster than they did.  Sometimes they would bash one but not usually.  Hogan did some long drive stuff at times early on and he was puttin the wood to it espescially for his height.  In order to score best these guys played a golf swing that was not maxed out because the ball spun so much that slight misfits were truly bad you had to manage the strike just right at high speed to keep spin down and get the launch right or it would be an embarrassing balloon ballflight.   They were playing the game of skill not the game of maximum speed alone.  Very self disciplined approach.  It kinda makes me mad when I hear younger folks say "part of the reason for the distance now is that players understand launch conditions better"

Really?  To me it's preposterous to try to assert that modern players only in the last few years learned launch conditions.  It's also arrogant and incorrect.  Like gear effect also.  Heel low cuts and toe draws were shots people practiced with balata back to Jackie Burke!

THE BALATA PLAYERS WERE MASTERS OF SPIN COMPARED TO THE GUYS NOW!  TO SAY THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING IS ABSOLUTELY VERY VERY INSULTING TO THEM AND ANYONE WHO IS CONNECTED WITH THEM!  

They were masters because the higher spinning ball gave them much better feedback while developing their swings.  You have to know how to create certain launch conditions to get that balata out there like Norman or Nicklaus or whoever.  Maybe they did not know their numbers on Doppler but they ALL knew who could do it and who couldn't and more I,portent how THEY did it. 

Now they are all bashing it because there's no reason not to.  The ball  doesn't spin as much and the clubs are forgiving.  The courses are setup so that being in the 'rough' is better than the fairway.

You get brain dead robots like DJ out there hitting miles.  Where's the variation and challenge?  Where are the courses made to challenge the modern technology?  It's not good for the tour to make the game into a distance contest.  They are marketing the thing poorly and results have been showing and will show the next few years as more and more courses close.

Golf with a higher spinning ball would be so cool to even watch on tv with shot tracer.  That's what golfers used to aspire to the low launch and correct shape.  They might not hit as far as pros but the shaping that's what's been totally lost today.

I think with a game focused on power and distance over self control and skill you get a bore.  With most tour stops it's like watching a Ferrari F1 car racing a guy in a Prius.  (The Prius being the course.)

A golfer with the skill of Corey Pavin simply couldn't make it today and that's sad.  Guy was a great competitor striker of the ball.  He was shaping fw wood shots into greens.  You don't see that stuff anymore and really the younger crowd doesn't know what they don't know.  

To me the whole game of golf boils down to decisions and self knowledge and control and is made more interesting the more difficult the course gets.   With the modern week to week game with older courses and modern clubs it's basically a free minus six or more every week due to par fives alone for a good touring pro.

This is a long rant to forgive me.  I just wish golf were more entertaining now.  It's largely not.  I'd like to see the pros have to face the challenge of a higher spinning ball and takeaway Some for and max volume on drivers and fw clubs.  The reason for this is I want to see what kind of level mankind can reach in this game.  I want to see the best quality.  IMO the way the game is goin is wrong for that.  It's a putting contest now.  They all bash it they all hit greens it's just who gets a hot putter.

I wanna make it more challenging and truly separate the wheat from the chaff.  To me that would be more interesting.

Or we can just leave things as they are and really never know what a great golfer is truly capable of because the game now really doesn't require that skill anymore.  Heck just carry a driver some short irons and wedges and a putter.  

Sorry for the rant but many of us get angry when it's said that modern players have been taught new things by trackman.  Sorry guys,  equal some Nicklaus or Hogan or Knudson et all scores with balata then you can talk.  That's real feedback hit ball watch ball.  Ball no do what you want do something else!

Happy Holidays!

 

 

 

Edited by Jack Watson

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4 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

I want to see the best quality golf.  I think that's where this whole discussion of distance comes in.  Nicklaus Snead et all for the most part could swing much faster than they did.  Sometimes they would bash one but not usually.  Hogan did some long drive stuff at times early on and he was puttin the wood to it espescially for his height.  In order to score best these guys played a golf swing that was not maxed out because the ball spun so much that slight misfits were truly bad you had to manage the strike just right at high speed to keep spin down and get the launch right or it would be an embarrassing balloon ballflight.   They were playing the game of skill not the game of maximum speed alone.  Very self disciplined approach.

You can't go back to that, because pros could simply play a 1997 Pinnacle and hit it long and straight. The only thing about the new ball is that they made the 1997 Pinnacle spin more with shorter clubs. So wrap a 1997 Pinnacle in some softer outer layers, and bam, you've accomplished nothing.

Balls are better now. So are clubs. So is the understanding that pros have to how important power is in the game.

4 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

It kinda makes me mad when I hear younger folks say "part of the reason for the distance now is that players understand launch conditions better"

Really?  To me it's preposterous to try to assert that modern players only in the last few years learned launch conditions.  It's also arrogant and incorrect.

No, it's correct. When players first got launch monitors, the vast majority were hitting down too much, generating too much spin, and effectively hitting ballooning, rising shots.

The Frank Nobilo piece, for example, says:

Quote

AT THE 1996 U.S. OPEN at Oakland Hills, I was on the range watching Tiger hit his driver. Unlike other pros, his ball didn't take off low, soar to a high point and then fall abruptly. It was more parabolic and arching. It was fantastic, but how he did it was a bit of a mystery. Tiger's consultant at Titleist, a man named Rick Nelson, sidled up to me, and as another incredible drive took off, he whispered, "Perfect spin rate." I didn't know what he was talking about; no one did, really. But Tiger's team had figured out that high launch and low spin off the driver was what you wanted, and they did everything they could, equipment-wise, to make that happen. His technique had something to do with it, of course. When Tiger switched to Nike and played the solid ball [2000] and had that incredible stretch, within 12 months everybody on tour switched to the solid ball. It's one of many ways that Tiger changed the game.

So no, it's not arrogant or incorrect. It's perfectly valid.

4 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Like gear effect also.  Heel low cuts and toe draws were shots people practiced with balata back to Jackie Burke!

Nobody said anything about gear effect.

4 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

THE BALATA PLAYERS WERE MASTERS OF SPIN COMPARED TO THE GUYS NOW!  TO SAY THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING IS ABSOLUTELY VERY VERY INSULTING TO THEM AND ANYONE WHO IS CONNECTED WITH THEM!  

Yell about it then.

4 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Maybe they did not know their numbers on Doppler but they ALL knew who could do it and who couldn't and more I,portent how THEY did it. 

Sorry, no. You're simply and provably wrong here.

4 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

The courses are setup so that being in the 'rough' is better than the fairway.

Where do you come up with this bullshit?

The rest I've left alone as it's your opinion and that's fine, but don't just spout out shit like it's fact when it's not, please.

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The bottom line is very simple.  If you are developing your swing or a students is it made better by more or less feedback?  I recommend anyone developing to use the highest spin balls they can find because it gives more feedback.

Higher spinning ball is more feedback.  Tour players today would hit straighter with a ball just like a Pinnacle.  Rocks were available back in the day.  No spin isn't what pros want in a ball.  They don't choose no spin because of many reasons.

Often players now aim at rough because it's often not what anyone would call rough.  I think it's obvious that I was not making a statistical argument there just pointing out a tendency in the modern game that shows how course setup is weak/favors bomb and gouge brainless golf.  Rough is supposed to be harder to hit from than fairway.  That's also lost on modern gamers for the most part.

Joro will agree,  he was there.  A higher spin ball helps separate wheat from chaff.  So many pros agree on these points...You seem to be somewhat alone in your contention that modern golf is the best thing ever...

Anyways I have to go so no more time now for this...  I used caps because it's insulting to people to tell them they didn't know what they were doing.

Again Best wishes to all for a safe holiday!

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15 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

The bottom line is very simple.  If you are developing your swing or a students is it made better by more or less feedback?  I recommend anyone developing to use the highest spin balls they can find because it gives more feedback.

That's dumb. If you are "developing your swing" it's made better by the right amount of feedback. And > 1/2 of the time, the "feedback" doesn't even really include what the ball does. The ball flight takes care of itself.

15 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Rough is supposed to be harder to hit from than fairway.

It is. Significantly so. From 140 yards, the gap in fairway vs. rough is a fifth of a shot. From 160, a quarter of a shot.

15 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Joro will agree,  he was there. A higher spin ball helps separate wheat from chaff. So many pros agree on these points...You seem to be somewhat alone in your contention that modern golf is the best thing ever...

There you go again putting words in my mouth, or (willfully?) mis-remembering stuff.

  • I've pointed out the opposite many times: that the advances in equipment have narrowed the gap between players like Tiger and his peers. You couldn't mis-hit a muscleback 2-iron. You can mis-hit a 3-hybrid a little and still do okay. The gap in skill has been artificially reduced. Jack says it. Tiger says it. I've said it.
  • Of course the modern ball is the "best" BALL "ever." But I've never said it's the best thing for the game, or makes the game most interesting, or whatever you're actually trying to say.

0 for 2 there @Jack Watson. Sorry.

15 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Anyways I have to go so no more time now for this...  I used caps because it's insulting to people to tell them they didn't know what they were doing.

Yet… you were wrong.

They didn't. They hit down. They launched the ball too low, and with too much spin.

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I just really dont see whats so bad about seeing scores being improved upon through history on the same course.

If anything, even as someone decently new to the sport, I think its cool to read the progression of the sport.

 

I dont watch pro sports to see their results dumbed down artificially. I find marvel in the lengths the top pros can hit it.

As something similar, I never complain when modern race cars destroy old racetracks. Progression of a sport should be appreciated.

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12 hours ago, iacas said:

Right, but the beer drinking, three-times-a-year golfer doesn't care what they're using. Everyone else, the 99% of golfers (by rounds) care. They probably play in a league. They may have a handicap. They will brag when they break 90 or 100 for the first time or the first time in a long time.

They have that option now, though. There just isn't much of a market, because why would a company invest much money into non-conforming equipment if there's not much of a market for it. We saw it with the Callaway ERC-II I think. It didn't go well. It tarnished Arnie's reputation, even.

 

I can see your point Erik, though i still think there is a market even if its only a very niche one. Its more for the specialist, smaller manufacturers such as ball makers or the guys who make those crazy anti-shank wedges. Taylormade made murmours of non-conforming clubs but their current range probably played just as long/forgiving as an oversized driver would.

I was only able to play 4 times this year due to illness and the last time was when i was doing a comparrison between my regular ball and the Polara XD. It was the most enjoyable round i've had for a while. I can see the appeal.

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12 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

I know  for myself as a golf fan I want to be able to watch golf and have it entertain me.  There's really only three tournaments anymore I pay attention to Masters British and US Open.  The last couple years the US has been a dud but I keep watching hoping it will once again become the ultimate test.

I want to see the best quality golf.  I think that's where this whole discussion of distance comes in.  Nicklaus Snead et all for the most part could swing much faster than they did.  Sometimes they would bash one but not usually.  Hogan did some long drive stuff at times early on and he was puttin the wood to it espescially for his height.  In order to score best these guys played a golf swing that was not maxed out because the ball spun so much that slight misfits were truly bad you had to manage the strike just right at high speed to keep spin down and get the launch right or it would be an embarrassing balloon ballflight.   They were playing the game of skill not the game of maximum speed alone.  Very self disciplined approach.  It kinda makes me mad when I hear younger folks say "part of the reason for the distance now is that players understand launch conditions better"

Really?  To me it's preposterous to try to assert that modern players only in the last few years learned launch conditions.  It's also arrogant and incorrect.  Like gear effect also.  Heel low cuts and toe draws were shots people practiced with balata back to Jackie Burke!

THE BALATA PLAYERS WERE MASTERS OF SPIN COMPARED TO THE GUYS NOW!  TO SAY THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING IS ABSOLUTELY VERY VERY INSULTING TO THEM AND ANYONE WHO IS CONNECTED WITH THEM!  

They were masters because the higher spinning ball gave them much better feedback while developing their swings.  You have to know how to create certain launch conditions to get that balata out there like Norman or Nicklaus or whoever.  Maybe they did not know their numbers on Doppler but they ALL knew who could do it and who couldn't and more I,portent how THEY did it. 

Now they are all bashing it because there's no reason not to.  The ball  doesn't spin as much and the clubs are forgiving.  The courses are setup so that being in the 'rough' is better than the fairway.

You get brain dead robots like DJ out there hitting miles.  Where's the variation and challenge?  Where are the courses made to challenge the modern technology?  It's not good for the tour to make the game into a distance contest.  They are marketing the thing poorly and results have been showing and will show the next few years as more and more courses close.

Golf with a higher spinning ball would be so cool to even watch on tv with shot tracer.  That's what golfers used to aspire to the low launch and correct shape.  They might not hit as far as pros but the shaping that's what's been totally lost today.

I think with a game focused on power and distance over self control and skill you get a bore.  With most tour stops it's like watching a Ferrari F1 car racing a guy in a Prius.  (The Prius being the course.)

A golfer with the skill of Corey Pavin simply couldn't make it today and that's sad.  Guy was a great competitor striker of the ball.  He was shaping fw wood shots into greens.  You don't see that stuff anymore and really the younger crowd doesn't know what they don't know.  

To me the whole game of golf boils down to decisions and self knowledge and control and is made more interesting the more difficult the course gets.   With the modern week to week game with older courses and modern clubs it's basically a free minus six or more every week due to par fives alone for a good touring pro.

This is a long rant to forgive me.  I just wish golf were more entertaining now.  It's largely not.  I'd like to see the pros have to face the challenge of a higher spinning ball and takeaway Some for and max volume on drivers and fw clubs.  The reason for this is I want to see what kind of level mankind can reach in this game.  I want to see the best quality.  IMO the way the game is goin is wrong for that.  It's a putting contest now.  They all bash it they all hit greens it's just who gets a hot putter.

I wanna make it more challenging and truly separate the wheat from the chaff.  To me that would be more interesting.

Or we can just leave things as they are and really never know what a great golfer is truly capable of because the game now really doesn't require that skill anymore.  Heck just carry a driver some short irons and wedges and a putter.  

Sorry for the rant but many of us get angry when it's said that modern players have been taught new things by trackman.  Sorry guys,  equal some Nicklaus or Hogan or Knudson et all scores with balata then you can talk.  That's real feedback hit ball watch ball.  Ball no do what you want do something else!

Happy Holidays!

 

 

 

Jack, your post is drawn out and that is okay.    I can read the frustration you are having by being chopped about everything you post by those that have no clue.   If it ain't science it ain"t Golf.   In our days, the days of Arnie, Snead, Jack and so on it was totally different.    The equipment was different, there were no "Gurus" out there in the wings waiting to destroy a game for their own personal gaines, and we learned how to do it ourselves.     Club choices, wind, perfect yardage was determined by us, no a walking computer they call a caddy.      People should not comment on those days when they have no idea.     I had the opportunity to tee it  up with some of these greats and see what they did, and in some cases it was amazing, and you had to more skill which is something today they just don't get.     

This is supposed to be a discussion board and with open minds and I thought maybe members would be interested in what we used to do, but I wonder.

Happy Hollidays to you  and everyone in here.

 

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