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The Golf Ball "Problem": PGA Tour Players Hitting it Far is a Problem for All of Golf?


iacas
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The Golf Ball "Problem"  

174 members have voted

  1. 1. Does the distance modern PGA Tour pros hit the ball pose a problem to golf as a whole?

    • Yes
      40
    • No
      134
  2. 2. What is the main source of the "problem" above?

    • The golf ball goes too far, primarily.
      23
    • Several factors all contribute heavily.
      26
    • I voted "No" above, and I don't think there's really a "problem" right now.
      125


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On ‎26‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:49 PM, iacas said:

 

Without giving it too much thought I would support a roll-back on driver head size, while I do not support a roll-back on the ball at all.

What size would you roll back to? I know a number of the big club manufacturers offered smaller headed "tour" drivers (440cc springs to mind).

Edited by RussUK

Russ, from "sunny" Yorkshire = :-( 

In the bag: Driver: Ping G5 , Woods:Dunlop NZ9, 4 Hybrid: Tayormade Burner, 4-SW: Hippo Beast Bi-Metal , Wedges: Wilson 1200, Putter: Cleveland Smartsquare Blade, Ball: AD333

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9 minutes ago, RussUK said:

What size would you roll back to? I know a number of the big club manufacturers offered smaller headed "tour" drivers (440cc springs to mind).

This is kind of drifting off topic, but I think many pros already use 440cc and 430cc heads. Not really sure what's possible, and I'm pretty sure the manufacturers will think of some way to make the volume rating lower without changing the profile. They'd probably have to change more than just the volume?

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There was a good friend of mine named Jim Flood who was the guy who started Aldlla Graphite Shafts, did the Basakward Putter, the Orizaba line of clubs, the Power Pod Driver, and a Engineer/ inventor of other Golf products.     He did a lot of testing and came up with 300cc as the perfect size for a Driver.   In fact he was instrumental in Callaways first Titanium VFT Driver which was and is still a great product.     I know some will scoff at this but I am just saying what he said and have used a VFT for many years.    In fact I dug it out the other day and took it to the Range and it was right with the new Drivers.      Mine is 9 degrees with an RCH stiff shaft.     Take it for what it is worth.

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1 hour ago, joro said:

There was a good friend of mine named Jim Flood who was the guy who started Aldlla Graphite Shafts, did the Basakward Putter, the Orizaba line of clubs, the Power Pod Driver, and a Engineer/ inventor of other Golf products.     He did a lot of testing and came up with 300cc as the perfect size for a Driver.   In fact he was instrumental in Callaways first Titanium VFT Driver which was and is still a great product.     I know some will scoff at this but I am just saying what he said and have used a VFT for many years.    In fact I dug it out the other day and took it to the Range and it was right with the new Drivers.      Mine is 9 degrees with an RCH stiff shaft.     Take it for what it is worth.

If someone like you can hit the sweet spot (or tiny forgiveness zone) every time, I would think there would be very little difference in actual distances?

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

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2 hours ago, RussUK said:

What size would you roll back to? I know a number of the big club manufacturers offered smaller headed "tour" drivers (440cc springs to mind).

I don’t believe neither the ball nor driver head needs any tweaking. Sports and its athletes evolve, usually better overall. 17 years ago Tiger averaged 299.3 yards with driver. 17 years ago. Hitting a golf ball 300yds is a tremendous skill. To think 0.001% of golfers need to be ‘restricted’ so that courses don’t have to be lengthened is ridiculous. Everyone would be affected by dialing back the ball and it wouldn’t only affect distance. Just a silly idea overall.

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The primary reason why I like the idea of lowering the cc's is because it still benefits the golfer who can hit the center of the clubface more often than others. I am pretty sure the golf club companies could make a 350 cc driver that goes just as far as modern drivers on centered hits.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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It was a while ago, but I hit the 320cc Ping Titanium driver longer on a consistent basis than any driver I have played (and yes I was younger). My point is that if a mid-teens handicap golfer can frequently hit the sweet spot on a 320cc driver, a tour pro could do it and swing out of their shoes virtually 100% of the time with 350cc.  DJ would still drive the ball 350 and I doubt any other PGA Tour Pro's driver distance would suffer.  I believe that you would have to go back to the early 1960's persimmon head sizes to make a difference and even with that Nicklaus hit one 341 yards using a wound balata ball.

These guys are good and they are getting stronger and more sophisticated with their training techniques and club fitting.  We have reasonable limits in golf balls and clubs set by the USGA and as the 10 year trend shows distance has not changed much.  Sure, more Pros can bomb it but IMO that is because they are more elite athletic golfers than 50 years ago.   It is what all athletes strive for in their respective sport.

Today's equipment limits are fine and also allow a 17HCP 66 year old to pop my drive out 220 yards thanks to a sweet spot the size of a silver dollar.  If the USGA is really concerned about obsoleting some older classic courses, they should encourage the PGA Tour to stop conditioning these courses with little rough and fairways running the same speed as most greens.  6800 - 7200 yards is fine for any pro tournament under the proper conditions.    

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6 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I like this much more than influencing the golf ball significantly.

It's not gonna happen.

One of the reasons "roll back the ball advocates" take that route is that they're consumable. They're not $400 each like making everyone replace a driver.

6 hours ago, RussUK said:

What size would you roll back to? I know a number of the big club manufacturers offered smaller headed "tour" drivers (440cc springs to mind).

440 is not a roll-back. 300-350, tops.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Personally, I think the pros put too much stress on their bodies because equipment is too forgiving for them. I think the hard swinging pros will end up much like Tiger in a few years.

Ultimately, I would like to see them put less stress on their bodies and there are a couple of ways to do that in my mind.

1. Force the pros to use less forgiving clubs making contact much more important.

2. Redesign golf courses essentially penalizing long tee shots.

 

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22 minutes ago, jatracy said:

2. Redesign golf courses essentially penalizing long tee shots.

Nah. I'd never support that. If we got to that point, I'd be fully on board with a ball roll-back.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Personally I am into vintage golf.  I like the old fashion blades and persimmon woods, all complimented by fresh looking balata balls.  Golf shouldn't be about distance, it should be about accuracy.

There has been an agenda to deloft clubs now for decades, what used to be a pitching wedge is now an 8 iron.  As well as making them lighter but in essence making feel of the club too subtle to be able to garner meaningful feedback.  Then you see instructors teaching the "one size fits all" turn your shoulders and lift the club methodology which in essence promotes short and steep swings that don't work well with the long irons and sand wedges.  The ball contact is not as pure as it should be.

I think the game is getting cheapened with too many gimmicks and lack of well researched instructors.  The hybrids are especially silly in this regard.  If someone had a sweeping swing based on correct club path motion, there would be no need for the golfers to use them.

I am actually a high handicapper, but its not from lack of talent.  Its from a lack of playing enough.  My swing can hit tee balls with a driver almost 400 yards on a good day, although accuracy suffers.  When I go for normal length, about 275 I hit them straight as an arrow.  I also learned how to do draws and fades by adjusting my stance in relation to the target line.  If I can get more course management experience I can easily see myself having a single digit handicap, like adjusting for wind, uneven lies and terrain elevation differences, etc.

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4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

The primary reason why I like the idea of lowering the cc's is because it still benefits the golfer who can hit the center of the clubface more often than others. I am pretty sure the golf club companies could make a 350 cc driver that goes just as far as modern drivers on centered hits.

Wouldn't affect the pros as much and that's where the "problem" is. Yes, they mis-hit the ball, but their miss is not as bad as an amateurs, and will happen far less often. Smaller drivers will separate players more based on their ballstriking, but the difference from pro to pro is less than the difference from pro to amateur. DJ will still be able to bomb it 350+ even if he has to be smarter about when to let it loose. Plus they're still able to hit their 3W ridiculously long, too, and I don't think you can limit head sizes enough to change that.

I still maintain that pros today swing all out because the equipment allows them to get away with small misses. If their equipment had to be less forgiving, they'll adjust their strategies accordingly.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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24 minutes ago, GST1974 said:

Personally I am into vintage golf.  I like the old fashion blades and persimmon woods, all complimented by fresh looking balata balls.  Golf shouldn't be about distance, it should be about accuracy.

Distance is a form of accuracy.

If you have 330 yards to the hole, and one tee shot goes 290 and the other goes 250, both directly at the hole, which one is more "accurate"?

24 minutes ago, GST1974 said:

I think the game is getting cheapened with too many gimmicks and lack of well researched instructors.

Really?

The game - and the instructors - do more research now than ever.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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14 minutes ago, iacas said:

Distance is a form of accuracy.

If you have 330 yards to the hole, and one tee shot goes 290 and the other goes 250, both directly at the hole, which one is more "accurate"?

Really?

The game - and the instructors - do more research now than ever.

Is there a way to edit posts?  I wanted to say I am developing a taste for vintage golf, not that I currently use such equipment.  Some people will think I hit my driver 400 yards with persimmon which is impossible.  I use a Cleveland VAS set.  I did buy a set of Wilson staff irons from 1959 but have not used them yet.

Yes distance is a form of accuracy.  What I meant is that there is too much emphasis by the golf industry as a whole to achieve extra distance by the equipment, and nearly none on improving technique and shot making abilities.  Have a slice?  Buy this brand!  Have a hook?  Buy this brand!  Hit it short?  Buy this brand.  People are rellying on crutches and will never improve their game in the long run.  I fell for it too by buying the Cleveland VAS set, instead of going for blades from the get go.

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1 hour ago, jatracy said:

Personally, I think the pros put too much stress on their bodies because equipment is too forgiving for them. I think the hard swinging pros will end up much like Tiger in a few years.

Ultimately, I would like to see them put less stress on their bodies and there are a couple of ways to do that in my mind.

1. Force the pros to use less forgiving clubs making contact much more important.

2. Redesign golf courses essentially penalizing long tee shots.

Just curious how you think these two things will prevent injury, because it seems like they could easily have the opposite effect?

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

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28 minutes ago, GST1974 said:

People are rellying on crutches and will never improve their game in the long run.

Relying? Maybe hoping/dreaming but certainly not relying as the average score and distance hasn’t improved much. That’s like saying people are relying on ab-rollers or elasti-belts to get their six pack abs...lol. A good diet and basic exercise is the key just like in golf it’s good instruction and proper practice. Again, Hitting a golf ball 300yds is an awesome skill. Striking a 7i 170yds to a green is a skill. It’s not like we’re all out there shooting around par and marveling at how easy this ‘new and improved’ equipment is making the game. Golf is hard. Golf will always win. Oakmont is still tough today. No change is needed. Let them play. Let us play.

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I personally think the gear and distance didn't change much from Bobby Jones era to almost Tiger.  Steel shafts were a vast change from hickory.  Besides that?

I think the gear the classic guys used was a bit of a built in governor on maxed out swings.   Big misses on maxed out very slight misses meant more self control was in order.  The higher spinning ball combined with lower COR and cc's forced the style.  Skill in ballstriking accuracy was more important than power.  Even drives were usually placed down one side of the fairway or another based on pin placement.  Strategy was paramount as was consistency over four rounds. 

I hope modern golfs love of power doesn't make golf a sport where the career is shortened because of injury.  Also I think everyone can agree it takes much more skill to use persimmon blades and balata than it does to use a frying pan and cavity backed with a plastic ball.

 

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Here's a thought, rather than the ball or the driver maybe look at the other end of the bag? Let me explain, the golf mag i oftem read has a "ask the pro" page and they often ask would they rather hit a shorter drive and be on the fairway but further from the pin, or their max drive, closer to the pin but in the thick stuff. Almost all say long drive but thick stuff as they want the shortest wedge in their bag because they know that their skill combined with the modern wedges with their milled faces etc. 9 times out of 10 they will get up and down for par at worst.

Maybe get rid of the milled faces and spinny grooves for the pros and go back to a lower spin design. Still gives them the option to go for it off the tee but would take more skill to get the ball to stop on the green with wedges with either shallower grooves or oldie style dimples.

Just a thought i had a 3am this morning so may well be a load of b*llocks :-D 

Russ, from "sunny" Yorkshire = :-( 

In the bag: Driver: Ping G5 , Woods:Dunlop NZ9, 4 Hybrid: Tayormade Burner, 4-SW: Hippo Beast Bi-Metal , Wedges: Wilson 1200, Putter: Cleveland Smartsquare Blade, Ball: AD333

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